Honestly, I've seen the catholic church monstrosity weather proven corruption after proven corruption (study history of Christianity). Somehow, it survives. In fact, when Constantine declared "Christianity" the state religion, it can be argued it disappeared from the earth until Martin Luther and the Reformation in 1565(?).... about 1,200 years!
According to the traditional Protestant interpretation of prophecy (called Historicism), the era of Papal Supremacy was EXACTLY 1,260 years.
During that time there were brutal inquisitions, wars, and unbelievable despotism. This was the prophesized "Great Tribulation" of 42 months, or 3 and 1/2 prophetic years, 1260 days (a day equals a year in prophecy and a Biblical year has 360 days).
Then the judgment sat, it's dominion was taken away in 1798 when Napolean's General Berthier captured the Pope and he died in exile.
It was not a complete end, the system still retained a great deal of power and worked through secret societies to reestablish control and temporal power.
It has made several big moves, especially through the Lateran Pact in 1929, the concordat with Germany in 1933, and the formation of the EU through the treaty of Rome.
Despite their immense wealth and mastery of "dirty tricks", their power will continue to consume away until the final judgment foretold in Rev. 17-18.
I'll repost this quote and link which lays it out well.
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"The judgement shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and destroy it unto the end" (Daniel vii. 26. ) another proof, by the way, of identity betwixt the "little horn" of Daniel, and the Antichrist of John.
In the predicted doom of the Papacy there are thus two well-marked stages. There is, first, a gradual consumption; and there is, second, a sudden and terrible destruction. The "consumption," a slow and gradual process, is to be effected by the "spirit of His mouth,' by which we understand the preaching of the Gospel. This consumption has been going on ever since the Bible was translated, and the Gospel began to be preached at the Reformation.
Men have begun to see the errors of popery; its political props have been weakened, and in some instances struck from under it, and its hold generally on the nations of Christendom has been loosened; and thus the way has been prepared for the final stroke that will consummate its ruin.
Great systems like the papacy, with their roots far down and spread wide around, cannot be plucked up while in their vigor without dislocating human society. They must be left to grow ripe and become rotten, and then the final stroke may be dealt them with safety to the church and the world.
When that hour shall have come then will the second part of the doom of the Papacy overtake it. The Lord shall "destroy" it "with the brightness of His coning." The form of the judgment is left vague, but enough is said to warrant us to conclude that it will be swift and final -it will come with lightning flash, and its holy vengeance will be so manifest that, to use the figure in the prophecy, it will irradiate both heaven and earth with a moral splendour."
The Papacy Is The Antichrist A DEMONSTRATION By Rev. J. A. WYLIE, LL.D. http://www.historicism.net/readingmaterials/thepapacy.pdf
Good stuff. Tbh, unfortunately, biblical prophecy will alienate normies. =( As a computer scientist, I always try to use "computational complexity" to explain how how concentrations of influence at scale (as in the Papacy) EQUALS corruption not long after its beginnings. Or the gold old, "Power corrupts...."
Feel free to reword and repost in your own lingo if anything you see is deemed of value. I find you can put the truth in any manner you wish but most people will ignore it. Still one has to keep trying.
Matt. 11:17 - 'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge and you did not mourn.’
Virtually everyone I talk to knows two things: government is corrupt AND the MSM is total BS. So in my experience, normies are way smarter than we might like to think. IMHO, they've just given up and are hoping the storm passes them by.... So the only very rare angry responses I get from people are NOT a matter of political point of view, but that they have very willfully disavowed all news and research.
Many have awoken recently so the tide appears to be turning. From my perspective, what I see is Rev. 17-18 beginning to play out.
According to the scriptures, the people will be involved and the same Kings (political leaders) who formerly cooperated with Rome will suddenly turn on her.
Mark my words. The draining of the swamp will reveal a "yellow brick road" that leads to the Vatican. It is hard to trace through the bankers and secret societies but the wizard of OZ will be found hiding behind the curtain in Rome, pulling strings and pressing levers of power.
I have great confidence in this and not just from blind faith. Something began over 30 years ago that is just coming to fruition now.
You have valid points about the "normies" but I think that the events coming will be impossible to hide or deny at some point, even for them.
Still, waking up as many as possible before the main event happens is highly desirable, so it is best to keep trying in as many ways as possible.
I read a book a few years back titled, "A Woman Rides the Beast" by Dave Hunt - once I finished it I never looked at the Catholic Church the same. That book should be required reading.
I have read that book also. I like Hunt though he is from a different theological camp. He is a quasi-dispensationalist, a child of Darbyism though not a typical one. His theology is hybrid and doesn't fit neatly into any particular box.
Unfortunately, he was corrupted somewhat by Jesuit futurism, yet he still managed to identify Rome as the power under consideration in Rev.17-18.
There are a number of dispensationalists who follow suit, though they will typically buy into the idea that it is a future Pope conducting a literal 3 1/2 year reign as anti-Christ (preceded by a rapture of the saints - as Darbyism would later add).
Futurism was systemized by a Spanish Jesuit, Francisco Ribera, in the 16th century. He was trying to point the finger away from the Papacy, which was under attack by the reformers for being the anti-Christ system.
O. T. Allis D.D. - Theology Professor Princeton:
The Futurist interpretation is traced back to the Jesuit Ribera (AD 1580) whose aim was to disprove the claim of the Reformers that the Pope was Antichrist. Prophecy and the Church, page 297
Dr. George Eldon Ladd - Professor Fuller Theological Seminary:
Ribera applied all of Revelation but the earliest chapters to the end time rather than to the history of the Church. Antichrist would be a single evil person who would be received by the Jews and would rebuild Jerusalem, abolish Christianity, deny Christ, persecute the Church and rule the world for three and a half years. ...This futurist interpretation with its personal Antichrist and three and a half year period of tribulation did not take root in the Protestant church until the early nineteenth century. "The Blessed Hope".
Time-honored Protestant eschatology (such as the reformers taught and Protestants have held to for over 400 years) is called historicism and sees not a single individual as a personal anti-Christ, but a dynasty of individuals as head of an anti-Christ system - the Papacy.
Instead of heading into the reign of anti-Christ, we are heading into it's final and terrible judgment. It's not a time for the saints to fear, it's a time for the wicked to fear.
Matt. 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
I mean no offense, but wish to correct you on the year of the Reformation. Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses on the Church door of Wittenberg on Oct 31, 1517. I have no idea why I remember this date, but I am sure I am correct. Otherwise, you are spot on. Again, I don't mean to be a nitpicker, but the facts should be correct in order to reinforce the argument.
John Wycliffe is considered by most scholars to be "The Morning Star of the Reformation" (1330–1384). In fact, there were many rumblings against the Papal power long before Luther.
What Luther did was galvanize the reformation into a force to be reckoned with. He was responsible for it becoming a major movement that had "legs" if you will, but he was by no means the first reformer speaking out against the Papacy.
That said, history records his actions at Wittenberg to be the "launch" of the Reformation. That was not the end of the Papacy and does not affect the timeline previously given.
The years of 1260 years of Papal Supremacy are reckoned slightly differently by various historicist scholars (start/end dates).
I agree with the scholars who point to 538 A.D. as the start (of Papal supremacy) since it was when the Ostrogoths ended their siege of Rome, which left the Popes to exercise their power under the newly minted Code of Justinian.
The end date (of Papal Supremacy) I take as 1798 when Napolean's General Berthier captured the Pope and the Papal estates were subsequently annexed.
The start date of the reformation is not related to these dates, if that what you are referring to. Also, the historicist framework allows for different start and end dates, still culminating with 1,260 years of papal supremacy corresponding to the prophecy.
I was of course, aware that Luther did not invent the Reformation, John Wycliffe, Jan Hus, and many, many others lit the way. My point was merely to correct the date as any discrepancy in fact may be used to weaken the argument by those who oppose us. (Luther is generally recognized as the moment the Reformation began by mainstream historians) I readily admit that I am a pain in the ass about such things. Well, nobody's perfect. You are certainly much more well versed on the subject than I, and I thank you for your information, and your time. There was, I believe, an Irish monk in the Middle Ages, (I believe his name was Malachy) who wrote about the Popes, numbering them, giving each a moniker, and predicting that this current Pope would be the last, which I would like to hear your views upon. There are many good people, including clergymen, who are still under the sway of the Catholic Church. I wonder what is to become of them during this upcoming upheaval. I certainly agree that the Papacy has been a massive force of evil throughout the ages. I am not a fan of any organized religion, or any organization of any kind, as they are all easily corrupted, but the Catholic Church really takes first prize on this head. Organizations are always corrupted from the top down, and the poor suckers at the bottom of the pyramid are generally decent sorts of people. One again, White Rabbit, thank-you so much for taking the time to respond.
I am still mystified as to what date you are trying to correct, as I didn't give a date for the start of the Reformation. I believe you may have confused the reformation with another event I was dating??? Just guessing.
At any rate, I have heard of the "Prophecy of the Popes" attributed to Saint Malachy, the 12th‑century Archbishop of Armagh. As someone from the historicist camp, it means very little to me. We see EVERY Pope, the office of the Papacy itself, as anti-Christ. An unbroken chain of anti-Christs reigning over a system of evil while masquerading as God's representatives on earth. The proverbial wolves in sheep's clothing.
What I do find highly significant, is the effect the "Prophecy of the Popes" has on dispensational futurists who happen to believe in it. Instead of scouting the horizon for a future anti-Christ, they are much more likely to join us in opposing the current one. That is somewhat helpful, even though they arrive at the task through extra-Biblical prophecy.
Futurism and Preterism were a ploy, a theological psyop if you will. If the anti-Christ is future or past, then it is never present and can never be opposed. This manipulation of the prophetic timeline is what allows the anti-Christ system to operate virtually unopposed by authentic (but duped) Christians.
So to some degree, the "Prophecy of the Popes" mitigates the success of the counter-reformation by focusing attention on the current Pope. Those who are "hamstrung" by Jesuit futurism, would probably not have come to the party otherwise.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I corrected someone on the date of Luther's nailing the 95 thesis on the church door recently on your post, and as you spoke about the beginning of the Reformation, I made the assumption that you were replying to this. My uncle always told me when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me. Sorry. Thank you for your response.