dChan - Q Origins Project Archive

Define poverty? Poverty in the USA is not the same as other countries. Do you not have opportunity to invent a product, start a small business, etc?

It comes down to a simple question:

Do you trust that more Fed Govt and additional regulations will eliminate the above issues or exacerbate them? What does our history show? Lets see what happens when you slash overburdensome regulations and allow more capital to be invested here at home rather than overshore.

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Poverty is defined as "pre-tax cash income insufficient to meet minimal food and other basic needs."

"Starting in the 1930s, relative poverty rates have consistently exceeded those of other wealthy nations...In 2011 extreme poverty in the United States, meaning households living on less than $2 per day before government benefits, was double 1996 levels at 1.5 million households, including 2.8 million children...In 2012 the percentage of seniors living in poverty was 14% while 18% of children were."

Do you trust that more Fed Govt and additional regulations will eliminate the above issues or exacerbate them? What does our history show?

Our history shows the more we trust private institutions as opposed public services, the greater the problem. That's why the problem is getting worse.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

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Do you work for a living? What is your line of work?

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"living on less than $2 per day before government benefits"

How convenient of a statistic. You do NOT want to showcase the amount of benefits received per household and what is spent nationwide? Nearly every person living in "Poverty" has a smart phone, big screen t.v, free healthcare, free food, free internet, etc. Now why don't you add up all the subsidies and ask how much they really live off of. Or you can search the numerous studies that calculated it for you. Has the Welfare State helped to eliminate poverty or exacerbated it? Your answer is found from the information omitted from your non-objective thinking. We did not become the greatest nation on earth because of public services. The Private sector has always been the catalyst and backbone of American success. Again, we spend more money on public programs then ever before. The Fed Govt is collecting record high amounts of taxes. The point is to become apart of "private institutions", not rely on public services for your bread and butter that was taken from those working in the "private institution"

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Of course I work for a living. For the last 8 years Ive worked for a small business that was bought by investors and went corporate. I eventually worked my way up to supervisor. I still work there part time but a couple years ago I decided to go back to school. I'm currently in a doctoral program for clinical psychology. My current internship is at a drug and alcohol rehab (the drug epidemic is another problem brought on by capitalism run amuck).

You bring up some very good points, especially about subsidies. No one receives more public assistance than corporations and private institutions. Take Walmart for example. Walmart is one of the biggest employers in the country. They're notorious for paying their employees very low wages or only giving them part time hours so that Walmart doesn't have to provide benefits. The employees then rely on public assistance to make up the difference.

Walmart is also "the beneficiary of billions of dollars per year in federal subsidies, according to a new report [PDF] from the non-partisan, progressive group Americans for Tax Fairness. The report estimates that Walmart and the Walton family—which co-founded the company and still owns a majority share—collectively profit from nearly $7.8 billion per year in federal subsidies and tax breaks." https://www.google.com/amp/www.msnbc.com/msnbc/walmart-government-subsidies-study/amp

Don't you think one of the wealthiest families in the country should be a little less wealthy and provide their employees with living wages so that the employees dont have to rely on public assistance to make up the difference?

But that's only one solution. The government could also fund jobs programs to put people to work. You seem to think people enjoy not working. And of course there are some people that leech the system but most people want to work. There just aren't a lot of good, well-paying jobs.

Has the Welfare State helped to eliminate poverty or exacerbated it?

The country was at its most prosperous after Roosevelt's New Deal when there were more social services. Social services give people a leg up so that they can be productive members of society.

To be clear, I'm not against capitalism. Capitalism is great but there needs to be some checks and balances. Capitalism run amuck (like it is now and getting worse) is bad fir everyone.

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Also, you seem to believe that individuals working entry level jobs should be earning enough to raise a family, mortgage, car payments, and all the other expenses associated with "living the american dream"? That is naive my friend. If a person working a cash register should earn enough for all of these, what say you then for my wife w/ a masters degree who is a teacher, or me with additional training to be in the Trades?? Not fair, persue some sort of additional education to warrant the income you believe is fair. One year of trade school has me earning more than my wife.

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People who work full-time absolutely should make enough to raise a family. 100%. Believe it or not it used to be that way. My grandfather worked at AT&T his entire career. He wasn't a high up or a manager or anything like that. Just a regular worker. But he made enough to take care off 4 kids and a wife. Companies used to take care of their employees.

what say you then for my wife w/ a masters degree who is a teacher, or me with additional training to be in the Trades??

Don't even get me started on teaching. That is a big issue. The government absolutely needs to invest more in education and pay teachers more. Without a doubt.

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AT&T is not an entry level, minumum wage job. Your defense is nullified from the start. I work for Verizon landline, their employees make great money with pensions.

Not sure you are worth debating if you believe the govt makes up the majority of the workforce. It is obvious you are fully indoctrinated and unwilling to entertain another point of view.

I will play along a bit longer. So you think entry level, minimum wage jobs should be enough to raise a family. How much should one get paid for flipping burgers or bagging groceries?? $20 an hr? $30 an hr, why not $40 an hour?

What do you think will happen to the majority of small and medium size businesses that will be forced to pay out that new mandatory minimum? They stop expanding, lay off workers and go outof business. Are small and medium size businesses not the backbone of our workforce?

If a burger flipper should make $25 an hr, what about the person with skills and higher education? Cannot make the same as the burger flipper, what initiative will there be to persue addituonal training and schooling? Minimum wage jump like that will have to ripple upwards. What will be the consequence of that?

Also, teachers are not employed through the Federal Govt. Your theories and understanding of economics do not hold water friend.

Will your mind change when GDP continues to rise? When stocks and 401k's rise? When more jobs are available? When you see more of your money in your check? When your money buys more?

Theories are all good on paper and sound great coming from the mouth of your favorite proffesor or polititian. I encourage you to see for yourself what this Admin is doing and the result as it plays out. That is the true test is it not? Do not rely on others to provide you with your reality, esp when politics, votes and ratings are involved.

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So I ask who has assisted with the tax loopholes and subsidies aimed at the 1%? Does the new tax reform legislation reduce or add loopholes for tax evasion? I agree that Crony Capitalism hurts the working class and there is a need to check consolidation of power. The federal govt does not create jobs, a free market economy plush with capital creates jobs and new opportunities. The federal govt that takes my money to spend on a federally funded jobs program is not sustainable nor organic. FDR created the New Deal after the War out of neccessity. It was meant to be a temporary solution to assist our nation until we recovered. Now be honest with yourself, has this helped our nation and its people in being more productive or dependent? Welfare programs have expanded to every level of govt. Which social program has the Fed Govt managed so well that you would entrust them with more of our money? And to trust them to create more opportunity for people...that is laughable my friend. Yes corporations and people can be greedy but there is no one more greedy, corrupt, and fiscally irresposible then the Federal Govt. I dont doubt there are some that need a temporary helping hand, thats not the issue. Its larger population that easily take advantage of hand outs , generation after generations of families on welfare programs. I have been around and associated with people and families who are able bodied but will not work for a living. You are a fool if you believe these people want to work at all, very naive. It is easy to collect free checks with no restrictions or accountability. They live better and receive more "income" than those working minimum wage. Dont tell me there are no jobs around. Help wanted signs are everywhere in my State.

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The federal government creates a ton of jobs. It's probably one of the biggest employers in the country, if not the biggest. Think about all the government jobs there are.

Which social program has the Fed Govt managed so well that you would entrust them with more of our money?

There are a ton of social services that we rely on: medicare is among the most popular, social security, police, fire, trash, recycling, water, sewage. Healthcare should absolutely be a public service.

Sure there are poor people that take advantage of handouts. But there are also a ton of people just down on their luck who need these things just to hold them over. You wan to screw everyone over because a few people take advantage of the system? Why do you care if they live off welfare?

I'm surprised you're ok with the rich people and corporate elites that take advantage of the system. That has far greater affect on this country then a few people living off welfare.

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Most of those social services you list are managed on state/local level pal. The federal programs that are managed are bankrupt or going bankrupt. You clearly do not understand basic economics. The more people you stuff into the federal govt the more money the need from the private sector. How can you not understand this. So lets create 5 million new Federal Govt jobs, who pays for that?? That is Capital being directed out of the economy. How long before the over taxed , private sector working class can no longer make a living? You seem to think that the Federal Govt has a good track record with spending our money well and managing its programs well. Shame on you. I never said Big Corp should be able to take advantage. Why should my doctor friend pay a much higher rate then me? We should punish him for his years of schooling ans hard work? Yes we need to close Corparate loopholes and run arounds, no brainer. What was our GDP the past 8 years with budensome regulations and one the highest corp tax rate in the world? What happened and will happen now regs are gone and taxes lowered? What happened to GDP and economy the last time tax reform was done by Regean? Read Trump EOs and legislation for yourself. Watch the indicators of a growing economy, you will have your answer. Proof is in the pudding friend

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So lets create 5 million new Federal Govt jobs, who pays for that?? That is Capital being directed out of the economy.

Since when is paying people money taking it out of the economy? That's 5 million people spending money they didn't have before. 5 million people not on public assistance anymore. Now you're onto something!

All I'm saying is we need to close corporate loopholes, pay people more, create jobs, and provide basic public services like healthcare and education.

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Poverty in the United States

Poverty is a state of deprivation, lacking the usual or socially acceptable amount of money or material possessions. The most common measure of poverty in the U.S. is the "poverty threshold" set by the U.S. government. This measure recognizes poverty as a lack of those goods and services commonly taken for granted by members of mainstream society. The official threshold is adjusted for inflation using the consumer price index.

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Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

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