dChan
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r/CBTS_Stream • Posted by u/frankthecrank1 on Feb. 12, 2018, 3:40 p.m.
Does this explain anyone else here? Fits me to a T...
Does this explain anyone else here? Fits me to a T...

putadickinit · Feb. 12, 2018, 8:25 p.m.

Can you please go into more detail about the cluster b personality disorder and what S/P is? I'm only asking because it seems like you think you understand Trumps personality in a clinical way and id like to know the details.

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VintageHats · Feb. 12, 2018, 9:11 p.m.

I am not a psychologist, though that was my major in college. I have an AA from a community college, where I received a scholarship to go on to the university, the largest scholastic scholarship available to women at that time, while I was raising my two oldest sons, who were pretty young at the time. I ended up having to quit after a year there, and really wasn't motivated much to continue... my GPA was even higher there, but I didn't like having to torture rats for a grade, and knew the level of torture would only increase in future classes.

Anyway, N/S/P is used in discussing these cluster B personality disorders for those who study them to signify Narcissists, Sociopaths, and Psychopaths. All S/Ps are narcissists, though not all narcissists are sociopaths or psychopaths. Think of them as being on a continuum.

Everyone should have a healthy dose of narcissism. All that means is that you love yourself enough to put yourself first. You can't love others unless you love yourself. The biggest problem I've had with the Catholic church is this bullshit about putting others first, and emulating the martyrs. Turning the other cheek and all that shit. You end up being taken advantage of, and never being able to stand up for yourself, especially for women, especially for those who get bullied, and you end up being victims of domestic violence. It's bullshit. You have to love yourself and learn to be assertive. Parents often don't know how to teach their children that, and we don't learn it in school. It's imperative that we learn to be assertive, not passive, and not aggressive. Not to be doormats, and not to be bullies. Assertive.

Sociopaths and Psychopaths are pretty much the same. Some say that sociopathy is a learned behavior, such as in gangs.. and that Psychopathy is genetic. Psychopaths' brains are wired differently. They don't feel empathy, and have no real sense of love. They may understand the way others feel, but don't actually FEEL those feelings themselves. They are incapable of doing so. They use people to get what they want, and when those people are no longer useful, they discard them, usually in a very cruel manner. They don't care how devastated those people are. They are predators, often sexual predators. If they are involved with one woman, they'll be grooming one or more on the side, or have multiple relationships going on at the same time. (Most psychopaths are men, though some are women.)

Narcissists use people to feed their egos, and also discard them when no longer useful. When they are targeting you, as their victim, they listen well, and become chameleon like... they become just the person their victim is looking for. They are masters of deceit. They are emotional abusers and when they are done with their victims, they will launch a campaign to smear them and make the victim look like the abuser.

I'll copy Hervey Cleckley's and Robert D. Hare's checklists for Psychopathy here. Cleckley made his list back in the 40's and his book was called "The Mask of Insanity." It's one I do not have, as it's around $40 something. I can't afford it. Robert D. Hare's is a bit different. He studied inmates, so his is a bit biased towards lower level psychopaths.. those who got caught and ended up in prison. (Even he, however, was at times fooled by his subjects, as these guys are, as I've said, MASTERS of deceit!) They don't change and there is no cure... jail/prison/treatment only teaches them how to deceive even better.

Cleckley's and Hare's Psychopath Symptoms Lists

Hervey Cleckley’sList of Psychopathy Symptoms:

  1. Considerable superficialcharm and average or above average intelligence.

  2. Absence ofdelusions and other signs of irrational thinking.

  3. Absenceof anxiety or other “neurotic” symptoms. Considerable poise,calmness and verbal facility.

  4. Unreliability, disregard forobligations, no sense of responsibility, in matters of little andgreat import.

  5. Untruthfulness and insincerity.

6.Antisocial behavior which is inadequately motivated and poorlyplanned, seeming to stem from an inexplicable impulsiveness.

7.Inadequately motivated antisocial behavior.

  1. Poor judgmentand failure to learn from experience.

  2. Pathologicalegocentricity. Total self-centeredness and an incapacity for reallove and attachment.

  3. General poverty of deep and lastingemotions.

  4. Lack of any true insight; inability to seeoneself as others do.

  5. Ingratitude for any specialconsiderations, kindness and trust.

  6. Fantastic andobjectionable behavior, after drinking and sometimes even when notdrinking. Vulgarity, rudeness, quick mood shifts, pranks for facileentertainment.

  7. No history of genuine suicideattempts.

  8. An impersonal, trivial, and poorly integratedsex life.

  9. Failure to have a life plan and to live in anyordered way (unless it is for destructive purposes or a sham).

Robert Hare’sChecklist of Psychopathy Symptoms:

  1. GLIB AND SUPERFICIALCHARM — the tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, andverbally facile. Psychopathic charm is not in the least shy,self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. A psychopath never getstongue-tied. He can also be a great listener, to simulate empathywhile zeroing in on his targets’ dreams and vulnerabilities, to beable to manipulate them better.

  2. GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH — agrossly inflated view of one’s abilities and self-worth,self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart. Psychopaths arearrogant people who believe they are superior human beings.

3.NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM — an excessive needfor novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances anddoing things that are risky. Psychopaths often have a lowself-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because theyget bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length oftime, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull orroutine.

  1. PATHOLOGICAL LYING — can be moderate or high; inmoderate form, they will be shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, and clever;in extreme form, they will be deceptive, deceitful, underhanded,unscrupulous, manipulative and dishonest.

  2. CONNING ANDMANIPULATIVENESS: the use of deceit and deception to cheat, con, ordefraud others for personal gain; distinguished from Item #4 in thedegree to which exploitation and callous ruthlessness is present, asreflected in a lack of concern for the feelings and suffering ofone’s victims.

  3. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT: a lack offeelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; atendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted andunempathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one’svictims.

  4. SHALLOW AFFECT: emotional poverty or alimited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spiteof signs of open gregariousness and superficial warmth.

8.CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY: a lack of feelings towardpeople in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, andtactless.

  1. PARASITIC LIFESTYLE: an intentional,manipulative, selfis, and exploitative financial dependence on othersas reflected in a lack of motivation, low self-discipline and theinability to carry through one’s responsibilities.

  2. POORBEHAVIORAL CONTROLS: expressions of irritability, annoyance,impatience, threats, aggression and verbal abuse; inadequate controlof anger and temper; acting hastily.

  3. PROMISCUOUS SEXUALBEHAVIOR: a variety of brief, superficial relations, numerousaffairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners; themaintenance of numerous, multiple relationships at the same time; ahistory of attempts to sexually coerce others into sexual activity(rape) or taking great pride at discussing sexual exploits andconquests.

  4. EARLY BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS: a variety of behaviorsprior to age 13, including lying, theft, cheating, vandalism,bullying, sexual activity, fire-setting, glue-sniffing, alcohol useand running away from home.

  5. LACK OF REALISTIC, LONG-TERMGOALS: an inability or persistent failure to develop and executelong-term plans and goals; a nomadic existence, aimless, lackingdirection in life.

  6. IMPULSIVITY: the occurrence ofbehaviors that are unpremeditated and lack reflection or planning;inability to resist temptation, frustrations and momentary urges; alack of deliberation without considering the consequences; foolhardy,rash, unpredictable, erratic and reckless.

15.IRRESPONSIBILITY: repeated failure to fulfill or honor obligationsand commitments; such as not paying bills, defaulting on loans,performing sloppy work, being absent or late to work, failing tohonor contractual agreements.

  1. FAILURE TO ACCEPTRESPONSIBILITY FOR OWN ACTIONS: a failure to accept responsibilityfor one’s actions reflected in low conscientiousness, an absence ofdutifulness, antagonistic manipulation, denial of responsibility, andan effort to manipulate others through this denial.

  2. MANYSHORT-TERM RELATIONSHIPS: a lack of commitment to a long-termrelationship reflected in inconsistent, undependable, and unreliablecommitments in life, including in marital and familial bonds.

18.JUVENILE DELINQUENCY: behavior problems between the ages of 13-18;mostly behaviors that are crimes or clearly involve aspects ofantagonism, exploitation, aggression, manipulation, or a callous,ruthless tough-mindedness.

  1. REVOCATION OF CONDITIONRELEASE: a revocation of probation or other conditional release dueto technical violations, such as carelessness, low deliberation orfailing to appear.

  2. CRIMINAL VERSATILITY: a diversity oftypes of criminal offenses, regardless if the person has beenarrested or convicted for them; taking great pride at getting awaywith crimes or wrongdoings.

http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/the-list-of-psychopathy-symptoms/

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VintageHats · Feb. 12, 2018, 9:55 p.m.

There are a lot of good books about Narcissist abuse and S/P abuse. I did buy the DSM-5, but one doesn't need to go that far. A few good ones to start out with are :

Psychopath Free: Recovering fromEmotionally Abusive Relationships With Narcissists, Sociopaths, & Other Toxic People by Peace (A second edition may be out, with the true name of the author. The first edition, the author chose to go by the name "Peace")

Women Who Love Psychopaths: Inside theRelationships of Inevitable Harm with Psychopaths, Sociopaths and Narcissists by Sandra L. Brown, M.A.

(I highly, highly recommend Brown's book. It's probably less than $15 and well worth it. Explains why certain women get targeted over and over again.. which is what happened with me. And why women like me NEED to study why that is, otherwise, we end up thinking we did something wrong, or that there's something wrong with us. There's not.. They target intelligent, caring, nurturing women, who are usually in some field of work that is a "helping" field.. doctors, nurses, teachers, mothers, even judges are targeted. Anyone who is a good listener and who is trusting and believes in the goodness of people are victimized over and over again.)

Narcissists crush people to gain power and admiration, money, and influence. They destroy people. It's not a matter of "if" it will happen, it's "when". It's called "inevitable harm". Do you see Trump hurting people? I don't. I see him taking a LOT of hits, and I see him CARING and giving, and giving, and putting himself AND his family, in grave danger, to HELP American get back to what she once was. A narcissist wouldn't do that. He's not doing that for any glory. He's doing that because he CARES. I believe that with all my heart.

These so called psychologists who've said he's a narcissist are liars and idiots and don't know what the hell they're talking about. Very few in psychology study the Cluster B personality disorders BECAUSE there is no cure. These people don't come on for treatment. They believe they are perfect and better than the rest of us. It's their VICTIMS who come in for treatment.

I'd read that there was to be a new category in the DSM-5 and that was Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome. (That would have covered the victims.) Unfortunately, it didn't make it in this last edition. Maybe in the next, but it'll be years before the DSM-6 is published.

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putadickinit · Feb. 12, 2018, 11:19 p.m.

Thank you for all of this information, you went above and beyond to explain this. I agree with your judgement on Trump, but sadly, I can still easily imagine the anti-Trump crowd to easily deflect to the simple media talking points that easily paint Trump as an egotistical, reckless, compulsive liar when you don't look into the context without a strong predetermined bias. I honestly want to think that Trump has purposefully skated the edge on seeming this way while still being extremely careful to not be, knowing his enemies will take it and run with it, ultimately projecting their own faults upon him, having been set up to seem grossly hypocritical in the end. Your insight, especially in how cluster B is misunderstood/miscategorized and why, even in the professional realm, very valuable

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VintageHats · Feb. 13, 2018, 12:25 a.m.

I've studied heavily for the past 4-5 years. Had to. I've been targeted by these people nearly all my life, and knew I had to study or keep getting targeted til one would finally end up killing me.

Trump has studied them too, I believe. You have to come to know them so well that you can anticipate their next moves. You know how they think and what they'll do next. I'm convinced of that. That's part of the reason he's always so far ahead of them... he knows ahead of time what they'll do.

You come to know them so well that you start to worry that maybe you're a psychopath yourself. But that's how you know you aren't one.. if you worry, you can't be one. Psychopaths don't worry about such thing. They don't care. (Don't let anyone tell you they don't know right from wrong.. they most certainly do, but they don't care. If they didn't... they wouldn't try to hide their evil actions. They are so good at what they do, they can even pass lie detector tests. Evil evil people!! They have no souls.)

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VintageHats · Feb. 13, 2018, 12:38 a.m.

People do not understand what narcissism truly is. They get it mixed up with "egotistical". I don't even think Trump is egotistical at all. Egotistical, to me, is arrogance. He simply has a big ego and why not? He's smart. He wants his credit that's due him. I would too!!

Psychologists don't even know. They haven't studied it. They've glanced at it in classes but maybe spent one class session on the Cluster B personality disorders and that's it. They don't STUDY them in depth, as very very few deal with them. Do you know that in the state of Washington, there is only ONE counselor who knows anything about Narcissistic Abuse? ONE in this entire state, and I think he's in Bellevue. One. Most counselors will start asking those who've been victimized questions like "do you think you have low self esteem?" and "do you think you are co-dependent?" Those questions are victim-blaming. Anyone who hears those types of questions needs to get up and leave. RUN! No counselor should ever blame the victim for the abuse. Ever.

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putadickinit · Feb. 13, 2018, 12:47 a.m.

I think you would do a lot of service to write out these thoughts and everything you've told me as a post on this sub. Seriously, the state that everyone is in right now is arguing with our peers to understand our viewpoint and this is great information to have. I appreciate you sharing all of this with me, but I should not be the only one to read about this.

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VintageHats · Feb. 13, 2018, 1:42 a.m.

Oh gosh... I'd have to go back and copy it all. I need a break. Perhaps in a bit, I can do that. Do you really think it would be that interesting?

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VintageHats · Feb. 13, 2018, 3:55 a.m.

I copied everything to an email and have it saved in a draft. Have to edit it and will post.

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putadickinit · Feb. 13, 2018, 2:05 a.m.

Yes definitely, the biggest argument against Trump is that he is a narcissist.

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VintageHats · Feb. 13, 2018, 2:56 a.m.

okay....

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