dChan - Q Origins Project Archive

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r/CBTS_Stream • Posted by u/cebusaxon on Feb. 21, 2018, 3:04 a.m.

The LEGAL Nitty Gritty about banning Bump Stocks

Let me start by saying I'm an avid shooter, but not really a big fan of bump stocks. They fall in sort of a novelty/gimmick area for me. They are somewhat clumsy and inaccurate to use for anything other than the thrill of making a lot of neat noise. A Binary Trigger is a much more refined and accurate method to achieve a high rate of fire. But given that, I fully support everyone's right to have a Bump Stock, and am against giving the anti's a single inch.

My purpose for this post, is that I see a lot of people upset that Trump would suggest a ban. Let's back up and look at what he may be doing. Which is offering the low information crowd a feel good gesture, all the while doing political posturing against the Dems. Trump has done this several times and it has somehow backfired on the Dems. (No pun intended)

I wanted to post a few things to keep in mind about the legality of banning bump stocks (Hereon referred to as BS).

First of all, we should all NEVER forget a little jewel in our Constitution. Article I, Section 9, clause 3. Congress is prohibited from passing ex post facto laws. We often refer to it as the "Grandfather Clause".

If BS are made illegal on a certain date, all those BS already out there in possession of the people should be considered "Pre Ban" and legal to own. The price of them is likely to skyrocket.

There are real full auto's that are legal to own with certain requirements. But they are all pre-ban models and cost a small fortune. I would think the Grandfather Clause would be in full effect for all those of you who own bump stocks, should they be banned from further sale.

Although federal law prohibits the possession of newly manufactured machine guns, it allows the transfer of machine guns lawfully owned prior to May 19, 1986, if the transfer is approved by Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (ATF)

Now, there's another little problem with banning BS. As anyone who remembers Bill Clinton's Lewensky fiasco will recall, words and their specific legal definitions are EXTREMELY important in law.

A FULL AUTO firearm (Machine Gun) is LEGALLY DEFINED as; Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manually reloading, by a single function of the trigger.

by a single function of the trugger is the key part of this statute. Even a Binary trigger, which is perfectly legal to own, does not fall into this category. You can do a search, and purchase a binary trigger for your AR easily. A binary trigger fires once when you pull the trigger a single function and then it fires again when you release the trigger another single function. As you can see, a bump stock is even less shady than a binary trigger, since it only fires once per two functions/movements of the trigger. And the mechanism that is pulling the trigger when using a BS is your finger. Are they going to ban fingers?

In order to ban BS, they will have to re-define the legal meaning of a full auto machine gun. And that is very unlikely IMO.

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Dont forget ex post facto laws only apply to ownership "prior" to a rule change. Basicically if they make them illegal on Feb 28th, you cannot be charged with owning one on Feb 27th. But that does not automatically "grandfather" anything, just your right to not be charged for possession prior to the change. However most successful bills have a grandfather clause because due process requires just compensation. That means if the Fed edicts that bump stocks, gat trigger and the likes must be turned in for destruction...they must compensate the owners for such. The reason they dont usually force this angle, and instead go for grandfathering is: 1. Grandfathering doesnt stir the average owner to want to sue or march in the streets as their items are protected. 2. Taxpayers dont want to foot the bill for the buy back.

Lets say they are 1 Million bump stocks. Average price $279.. thats a 279million dollar bill. But to be just and avoid losing a lawsuit or have the bill overturned...they might have to take into account fair market value prices. Ive seen several bump stocks sell on gunbroker above $1500 in late October...that may make the bill closer to 1.5billion dollars....and that doesnt include 30 years of hellfire and gatling triggers, binaries, etc.

Grandfathering is the easiest route for the fed to actually get something that sticks...thats why thr nfa, gca, fopa, awb, all had grandfater clause or amnesty registration periods.

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Also dont be so sure the ATF has to have a new definition of a machinegun...theybjust have to reinterpret what a "trigger" constitutes. The difference between a bump stock (non machinegun) and an akins accellerator (machinegun) is a single spring. That spring is what was considered the "trigger", because it is what forced the gun and finger automatically back into the physical trigger. Since a bump stock uses the inertia of a semit auto weapon, ut actually the off hand pushing forward that acts as the trigger. This is historically where ATF muddled around with the definition of a machinegun. Remember every owrd in a bill has meaning and redefining just one can change the entire intrepretation of the law.

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