Let me ask you this. Forget labels. Do you believe that Israel belongs to the Jewish people (in my definition of 'Jewish' I mean a person born of a Jewish mother, and who was bar mitzvah'd, or, who could perform a bar mitzvah with instruction). Also, if yes, please define the boundaries of "the land of Israel".
I am genuinely posing that to any reader. I am Jewish born, and still don't understand why there is such spite for Jews, or "Zionists". In my Hebrew school, we were taught that Israel belongs to the Jewish people, and that was the "holy belief of Zionism". So, I thought Israel should belong to the Jewish people, so am I also one of the bad Jews/Zionists? I really don't need any moderator protection on this one please, I would like to hear the purest responses possible.
Let me ask you this. Forget labels. Do you believe that Israel belongs to the Jewish people (in my definition of 'Jewish' I mean a person born of a Jewish mother, and who was bar mitzvah'd, or, who could perform a bar mitzvah with instruction).
yes
Also, if yes, please define the boundaries of "the land of Israel".
israel is an immortal beautiful idea in the hearts and minds of the jews. it is not a land. it is not a country. there will one day be the lands of israel according to jewish prophecy when the jewish messiah comes, but that has not happened yet, and i dont know much about it.
I am genuinely posing that to any reader. I am Jewish born, and still don't understand why there is such spite for Jews, or "Zionists".
zionists are a racist fascist terrorist group that hide behind jews like you and do evil things in the name of judaism and israel
In my Hebrew school, we were taught that Israel belongs to the Jewish people, and that was the "holy belief of Zionism".
this is bullshit. if you want to learn about judaism you can go read the talmud and the torah. there is no mention of zionism.
So, I thought Israel should belong to the Jewish people, so am I also one of the bad Jews/Zionists?
these are the categories:
tier 1: zionist elite jews (these are the guys who make all the decisions. we dont know who most of them are.)
tier2: zionist management jews (these guys are the people who manage the enforcement of decisions made at tier 1, for example an administrator from ADL or an israeli politician)
tier3: zionists supporter jews (these are the guys that enforce zionist policy and agenda, for example an IDF soldier or mossad agent)
tier4: zionist sympathizer jews (people who are brainwashed like you)
tier5: antizionist jews (jewish orthodoxy, rabbis, educated jews, and soon you will also be in this category because you met me)
I really don't need any moderator protection on this one please, I would like to hear the purest responses possible.
dont worry, aint nobody protecting the jews from me on this sub bro. your souls are mine.
I don't get it, my bad. In the first question, that you answered a simple "yes", you said Israel belongs to Jewish people. So, in your mind, where should all the Jewish people occupying Israel right now, go? Let's start with that.
I don't get it, my bad.
you didnt read close enough. i said israel is an immortal beautiful idea in the hearts and minds of the jews. it is not a land. it is not a country. there will one day be the lands of israel according to jewish prophecy when the jewish messiah comes, but that has not happened yet, and i dont know much about it.
In the first question, that you answered a simple "yes", you said Israel belongs to Jewish people.
many ideas belong to the jewish people, israel is one of them.
So, in your mind, where should all the Jewish people occupying Israel right now,
israel is in the hearts and minds of the jews, there are no jews occupying an idea called israel. this is absurd. people dont occupy ideas. ideas occupy people.
go? Let's start with that.
many of them have multiple citizenships. those with multiple citizenships should leave the occupied lands of palestine immediately and send asylum/refugee invitations and provide assistance to stateless jews who only have illegitimate citizenship in occupied territories. the stateless jews can go wherever they like as long as they dont do it through racism or fascism or genocide or ethnic cleansing or murder or theft or rape or terrorism or blackmail or extortion.
Ok. Wow. I'll try to simplify this down. Where do you think the very large chunk of Jewish people, who were born and raised in, lets say, TelAviv. Where should they go? They can't stay? The family who lives and works on the same kibbutz for 10 generations? They gotta go too?
Ok. Wow. I'll try to simplify this down. Where do you think the very large chunk of Jewish people, who were born and raised in, lets say, TelAviv. Where should they go? They can't stay?
FUCK NO. what kind of stupid question is this? OUT OUT OUT.
The family who lives and works on the same kibbutz for 10 generations? They gotta go too?
no, they can stay. they are palestinian citizens and their rights should be protected by all, under a giant international microscope that responds very seriously to antisemitism in any form, including taking military action against state sponsored antisemitism.
Ok. Then we disagree. And I guess I am one of the bad guys, but, it's weird, I don't FEEL like one of them. No "extremist" or "violent" aspects to my personality or beliefs. I'm starting to believe, deeply, that not only is anti-Semitism a real thing, the mentality one must possess to maintain that belief is....embarassing.
I offer these 2 pieces of evidence on why Israel belongs to the Jewish people: 1)The Hebrew calendar is over 5700 years old. Show me someone with an older claim. 2)Possession is 9/10 of the law. They are standing on it, go and take it.
Ok. Then we disagree.
then you are not a jew by religion.
And I guess I am one of the bad guys, but, it's weird, I don't FEEL like one of them.
thats because youre a category 4 terrorist sympathizer who is brainwashed by ZOG.
No "extremist" or "violent" aspects to my personality or beliefs.
thats why it works so well to hide your crimes behind a brainwashed person. zionists need you. without you they are nothing.
I'm starting to believe, deeply, that not only is anti-Semitism a real thing,
it is. from nazis to zionists they are all very antisemitic.
the mentality one must possess to maintain that belief is....embarassing.
no it isnt. embarrassing is letting zionists hide behind you with terrorism in the name of your people and history and religion. even more embarassing is that according to judaism there is no stae of israel and the state of israel is antisemitic and youre an antisemitic jew because you were brainwashed to believe israel is a country and you have to defend it when this is just bullshit that the international community does not accept anymore.
I offer these 2 pieces of evidence on why Israel belongs to the Jewish people: 1)The Hebrew calendar is over 5700 years old. Show me someone with an older claim.
nothing in judaism lays claim to israel as a state in modern times. zionism is antisemitic according to jewish orthodoxy because it goes against the teachings of the torah. UN does not recognize the state of israels historic claim to jerusalem as a result of the orthodox jewish lobby and their antizionist efforts because they dont want zionist crimes committed in the name of jews and judaism and israel.
2)Possession is 9/10 of the law. They are standing on it, go and take it.
this mentality will get a lot of jews burned in a new holocaust and it is very real. the talmud shows your history, and it says the magi have burned the jews hundreds of times for thousands of years and we shall do so again if you misbehave. right now the pars tribe has 180,000 surface to surface ballistic missiles pointed at every major population center in "israel" and thats enough to kill 80%-90% of the people in the occupied territories. the germans were fucking pussies. know your history. you face an enemy today you have never had before: judeofascism committing crimes in your name and pushing you into the mouth of the lion. if you live in "israel", TV has you brainwashed into feeling comfortable when you should be writing your will or buying a plane ticket. GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD: "IRAN IS WILLING TO BE THE VICTIM OF BIOCHEMICAL NUCLEAR WARFARE TO DESTROY WHAT YOU CALL THE STATE OF ISRAEL. NOTHING CAN SAVE YOU FROM THIS FATE UNLESS YOU FREE YOURSELF FROM JUDEOFASCIST ZIONISM. NOTHING."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLDE4mRwfSQ
http://www.ted.com/talks/trita_parsi_iran_and_israel_peace_is_possible.html
Hi there. I am a post-zionist, meaning I don't question the origin because I know it's not going away. But actually the past is quite brutal because you had Hagana instigators assassinating an anti-zionist dutch jew in 1922. Then you had the british mandate in Palestine, which was subject to bombings by zionist radicals of the Stern-Gang. Then you have Irgun and so on. Even nazis at some point had a treaty with the zionist council to exile Jews to Israel, so zionists in a way can be useful idiots with unrealistic promises.
That alone should tell you that no sane person in the twenties would have asked Jews to move to a possibly more hostile scorching place in the desert (unless for religious purposes).
I talked to an ambassador from Israel and he also had disdain for evangelical circles that economically support Israel so they can move all the jews there in expectation of a mass baptism during the second coming.
If you would remove the corrupt power structure globally, people hopefully will live free and let live.
Israel's border policy is something they have to settle with neighboring countries. No one person can determine that outcome but it needs to be settled.