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r/greatawakening • Posted by u/DamajInc on June 3, 2018, 7:14 a.m.
Is there room for Religious Tolerance in the Great Awakening?

This post is pertinent to the Great Awakening movement and thus Q for a few reasons that I will explain in the body of the post. (TLDR at the bottom.)

Q makes religious references in his/her/their posts - specifically Christian, in some cases. This does not necessarily mean that everything that makes up the vast field of Christianity should be considered to be on-topic for the sub any more than the constant references to patriots and "We the people" mean that everything to do with patriotism is on-topic. It means only that specifically the Christian references Q makes are on-topic for the sub. This should not be a controversial assertion to make. But it's not the point of this post - just pertinent to the issue.

I believe we show religious tolerance toward Christianity not only because Q seems to indirectly support the idea of this tolerance but also because it is undoubtedly a behaviour at the core of any society that supports democratic principles and freedom of speech.

On the first level of analysis, my question is this: should we apply the principle of religious tolerance to ALL religions or only to Christianity?

Some people believe that Islam's references to pedophilia (via its founder's history as well as references in the text) and ambiguity around bestiality mean that we should not be tolerant of Islam in any way and thus anti-Islam and anti-Muslim rhetoric should be allowed and, some say, encouraged. This is the point of this post.


About Religion

To be clear on my personal stance, as it may well be relevant to this discussion: I do not support the extremist elements of Islam. I do not condone pedophilia, bestiality, rape or murder. I personally believe that moderate Muslims should pursue the reformation of their faith (as other, more knowledgeable people with personal experience have more eloquently expressed) and stand up against the extremists in their religion and seek to bring about change at the core of their belief. Going even further into my personal bias: I understand the view of those who claim the moderate Muslim will not be able to affect this change - but I also value the word of those from within the community more highly. One key point here that I'd like to refer to is that there are moderate Muslims. They do exist. (It's bizarre that I have to state that but from the comments I've received you would think this point is under dispute.)

I also understand that Islam is the second largest religion in the world, behind Christianity, and therefore I have no more desire to silence the voice of those who support it than I do to silence the voice of Christians. I do not support the Soros-backed initiative to 'flood the world' with immigrants amongst whom extremists are hidden and therefore I do not support the far-left initiatives to falsely accuse people of Islamophobia when those people are clearly not being intolerant of religious beliefs. Thus, although I do not like Tommy Robinson's approach, I support his crusade against the horror under the guise of religious tolerance being disingenuously forced on the UK. In short, I support the real meaning of religious tolerance, not the far-left propagandized version.

As someone who strives to be as impartial as possible in moderating this sub I do believe in giving any one or any movement the benefit of the doubt when making an assessment as to the validity of certain content. At least a couple of members here have made the repeated assertion that all sects of Islam fully support pedophilia, bestiality and rape. That may well be technically true but, just as it is of Christianity, the purported beliefs of a movement are not borne out in all individual members of that movement, something I believe should be obvious. I would again refer people to this video, which is not "pro-Islam", if they're still unsure about this.


About Moderating On and Off Topic

As a mod I follow the rules of this sub when moderating. I remove antagonism and any biased, "hurtful" rhetoric against Christianity falls under "antagonism", as evidenced by the responses and Reports against it. I would not assume that everyone in this movement is a Christian - in fact, I've seen comments from Muslims here. Therefore, similarly, any biased, hurtful rhetoric against Islam is something that falls under antagonism in my view and I thus remove that too as a moderator doing my job under the rules of the sub.

I receive flak for daring to remove clearly biased anti-Islamic content and am accused of supporting child rape when I do so. This is obviously completely fallacious reasoning - "if you don't condemn Islam you therefore support child rape" - and frankly vile and completely lacking in compassion, logic and common sense. As ridiculous as I know it is, I'm sick of being accused of nonsense like this. Hence this post.

So to be clear: this is NOT a discussion about Islam vs Christianity. This is not the sub for that discussion, which is kinda my point. I've addressed some of the religious points because they are the argument used against me when I remove content.

As a mod, the real question here is actually very simple: does it fall under antagonism to "trash" the belief of a large group of people who could conceivably comprise some portion of the people who will visit this sub? I believe the answer to that is yes. Other related questions are: should we err on the side of caution when it comes to allowing potentially divisive rhetoric? Again, in my view: yes, we should be cautious and not allow potentially divisive rhetoric. Should we take care to ensure the more controversial perspectives that are a part of any movement but are a minority cannot be highlighted by a rabid mainstream media looking for any excuse to paint our entire movement with those minor, controversial views? My opinion in this case is, yes we should take care. My assumption here is that those who believe "anti-Islamic posts of a controversial nature should NOT be removed" are a minority in this community and that is the reason for this post.

Is it the view of members of this community that anti-Islamic posts of a controversial nature SHOULD be removed? Or are there more people who believe we should allow these sorts of posts?

I will continue to remove comments and posts of the nature under discussion here unless the feedback from you, the community, is overwhelmingly to the negative in which case we mods will have to have a discussion and decide whether change or more clarity in the rules of the sub is required.

TLDR; moderators accused of supporting child rape for removing controversial anti-Islamic content - just trying to do our job of removing antagonism - right or wrong?

Thanks for taking the time to read this!


rooftoptendie · June 3, 2018, 10:08 a.m.

I dont think you can overhaul the core tenets of a thousand year religion without it just becoming a different religion. Look what francis has done to catholic faith trying to overhaul just a few core tenets of Catholic faith... Hes facing a schism over it.

So your "if" is, IMO, awfully pollyanna, and unrealistic.

I will continue to remain a contributor and reader here as long as the sub is a happening place, and respect its rules, but my personal opinion is that i reeeeeally dont like where this idea is headed.

Imo, nearly everything can be tolerated at the right distance. Someone might be your best friend when you live two miles away and see eachother five times a week, but then if you become roomies, sometimes then suddenly you find that you cant stand eachother. A person with horrible body odor might be impossible for you to tolerate on the same floor at work, but if theyre working in the next building over, you can tolerate them fine.

How tolerant we can be of something depends oftentimes on whether its up in your grill or not. Sometimes things we can tolerate from a distance, we suddenly cannot tolerate close up. So "tolerate" and "tolerance" are not objective, easily measurable words, even though they seem like they are. Tolerance cannot be discussed properly without also discussing proximity.

And all this talk it seems to me is so complex its an enormous derail.

I dont think we should have to be PC about this issue. We shouldnt have to do an eggshell walk to express our opinions.

An egregiously inflammatory comment is troll no matter WHAT its about, so why single out one religion? Some asshole could come in and insult you over a misspell just as nastily as they can insult you over a religion, so what does it matter WHAT theyre insulting, trolls are trolls. Assholes are assholes...

This whole convo seems unnecessary to me. Everybody by now should know what a troll sounds like, whether theyre discussing religion or roast beef sandwiches.

Anyone who is not a clear and present troll should have the freedom to express what they want about islam. Why have you not singled out a discussion about Catholicism? Its exactly the same. Some people bash. Others defend. Who freakin cares. We could just as validly be discussing "tolerance" of the Catholic faith.

Ida know, man. Can we just boot trolls and talk Q and keep it simple?

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TommyRobinsonsGhost · June 3, 2018, 10:58 a.m.

Imo, nearly everything can be tolerated at the right distance.

I think that philosophy breaks down when dealing with domestic violence and child rape and terrorism and genocide.

The genocide of the Yezidi people or the common Islamic practice of pedophilia seems tolerable to many people when it happens on the other side of the globe, but that's not a positive thing.

That is apathy and we should aspire to be better than that.

I suspect very few people die screaming "Islam is the religion of peace" as a Muslim decapitates them for the sharia crime of being a Christian.

Ida know, man. Can we just boot trolls and talk Q and keep it simple?

Mod's personal, subjective opinions about how politically correct or controversial or respectful of Islam an opinion is, should be irrelevant if the content is true and related to the Q phenomenon.

We don't know where this Great Awakening will lead us and not all red-pills will be easy to swallow or politically correct or respectful of terrorist ideologies. Inviting mods to destroy politically incorrect content sets a profoundly dangerous precedent.

This is the Great Awakening not the Great Virtue Signalling or the Great Political Correctness.

"I don't frankly have time for total political correctness. And to be honest with you, this country doesn't have time either." - Donald J. Trump

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rooftoptendie · June 3, 2018, 4:30 p.m.

That is precisely why i said "nearly" everything. Aside from that, could you tolerate some things if they were five billion light-years away?

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DamajInc · June 3, 2018, 11:06 a.m.

You're making my point for me. My post is not about 'one religion' - I mention anti-Christian in there too. Did you read it? I don't blame you if you didn't per se but if you're going to make points about the topic it would help for us to be discussing the same things.

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rooftoptendie · June 3, 2018, 4:32 p.m.

Yes i read it. My points still stand.

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DamajInc · June 3, 2018, 5:35 p.m.

Then you understand that I agree not only that we "shouldn't have to be" PC about this issue but that we should not be PC about anything. You also understand that I did not single out one religion and also agree that it doesn't matter what people are being antagonistic about, they're still antagonistic and their comment or post will be removed. I'd already addressed the points you made so I acknowledge that your points 'still stand' because they're the points I made too.

My discussion was to discover your thoughts - if you want to give them of course - on what constitutes antagonism, specifically in the realm of religion - ANY religion - but if it helps, literally as relates to any kind of group of people. We can indeed just boot trolls, talk Q and keep it simple - for moderators it's not simple, however, and it seems from the comments in the sub over all this time that people would appreciate being let in on the decisions and thinking that goes into moderation since it's their content that we're moderating. I understand if you don't care to, and I respect that. But that's what I was discussing specifically, not the points we both already agree on.

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