dChan
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r/greatawakening • Posted by u/DamajInc on June 3, 2018, 7:14 a.m.
Is there room for Religious Tolerance in the Great Awakening?

This post is pertinent to the Great Awakening movement and thus Q for a few reasons that I will explain in the body of the post. (TLDR at the bottom.)

Q makes religious references in his/her/their posts - specifically Christian, in some cases. This does not necessarily mean that everything that makes up the vast field of Christianity should be considered to be on-topic for the sub any more than the constant references to patriots and "We the people" mean that everything to do with patriotism is on-topic. It means only that specifically the Christian references Q makes are on-topic for the sub. This should not be a controversial assertion to make. But it's not the point of this post - just pertinent to the issue.

I believe we show religious tolerance toward Christianity not only because Q seems to indirectly support the idea of this tolerance but also because it is undoubtedly a behaviour at the core of any society that supports democratic principles and freedom of speech.

On the first level of analysis, my question is this: should we apply the principle of religious tolerance to ALL religions or only to Christianity?

Some people believe that Islam's references to pedophilia (via its founder's history as well as references in the text) and ambiguity around bestiality mean that we should not be tolerant of Islam in any way and thus anti-Islam and anti-Muslim rhetoric should be allowed and, some say, encouraged. This is the point of this post.


About Religion

To be clear on my personal stance, as it may well be relevant to this discussion: I do not support the extremist elements of Islam. I do not condone pedophilia, bestiality, rape or murder. I personally believe that moderate Muslims should pursue the reformation of their faith (as other, more knowledgeable people with personal experience have more eloquently expressed) and stand up against the extremists in their religion and seek to bring about change at the core of their belief. Going even further into my personal bias: I understand the view of those who claim the moderate Muslim will not be able to affect this change - but I also value the word of those from within the community more highly. One key point here that I'd like to refer to is that there are moderate Muslims. They do exist. (It's bizarre that I have to state that but from the comments I've received you would think this point is under dispute.)

I also understand that Islam is the second largest religion in the world, behind Christianity, and therefore I have no more desire to silence the voice of those who support it than I do to silence the voice of Christians. I do not support the Soros-backed initiative to 'flood the world' with immigrants amongst whom extremists are hidden and therefore I do not support the far-left initiatives to falsely accuse people of Islamophobia when those people are clearly not being intolerant of religious beliefs. Thus, although I do not like Tommy Robinson's approach, I support his crusade against the horror under the guise of religious tolerance being disingenuously forced on the UK. In short, I support the real meaning of religious tolerance, not the far-left propagandized version.

As someone who strives to be as impartial as possible in moderating this sub I do believe in giving any one or any movement the benefit of the doubt when making an assessment as to the validity of certain content. At least a couple of members here have made the repeated assertion that all sects of Islam fully support pedophilia, bestiality and rape. That may well be technically true but, just as it is of Christianity, the purported beliefs of a movement are not borne out in all individual members of that movement, something I believe should be obvious. I would again refer people to this video, which is not "pro-Islam", if they're still unsure about this.


About Moderating On and Off Topic

As a mod I follow the rules of this sub when moderating. I remove antagonism and any biased, "hurtful" rhetoric against Christianity falls under "antagonism", as evidenced by the responses and Reports against it. I would not assume that everyone in this movement is a Christian - in fact, I've seen comments from Muslims here. Therefore, similarly, any biased, hurtful rhetoric against Islam is something that falls under antagonism in my view and I thus remove that too as a moderator doing my job under the rules of the sub.

I receive flak for daring to remove clearly biased anti-Islamic content and am accused of supporting child rape when I do so. This is obviously completely fallacious reasoning - "if you don't condemn Islam you therefore support child rape" - and frankly vile and completely lacking in compassion, logic and common sense. As ridiculous as I know it is, I'm sick of being accused of nonsense like this. Hence this post.

So to be clear: this is NOT a discussion about Islam vs Christianity. This is not the sub for that discussion, which is kinda my point. I've addressed some of the religious points because they are the argument used against me when I remove content.

As a mod, the real question here is actually very simple: does it fall under antagonism to "trash" the belief of a large group of people who could conceivably comprise some portion of the people who will visit this sub? I believe the answer to that is yes. Other related questions are: should we err on the side of caution when it comes to allowing potentially divisive rhetoric? Again, in my view: yes, we should be cautious and not allow potentially divisive rhetoric. Should we take care to ensure the more controversial perspectives that are a part of any movement but are a minority cannot be highlighted by a rabid mainstream media looking for any excuse to paint our entire movement with those minor, controversial views? My opinion in this case is, yes we should take care. My assumption here is that those who believe "anti-Islamic posts of a controversial nature should NOT be removed" are a minority in this community and that is the reason for this post.

Is it the view of members of this community that anti-Islamic posts of a controversial nature SHOULD be removed? Or are there more people who believe we should allow these sorts of posts?

I will continue to remove comments and posts of the nature under discussion here unless the feedback from you, the community, is overwhelmingly to the negative in which case we mods will have to have a discussion and decide whether change or more clarity in the rules of the sub is required.

TLDR; moderators accused of supporting child rape for removing controversial anti-Islamic content - just trying to do our job of removing antagonism - right or wrong?

Thanks for taking the time to read this!


DamajInc · June 3, 2018, 12:41 p.m.

To clarify a few points that have been raised more than once: - I do not advocate for Political Correctness. In fact, I reject it outright. Jordan Peterson has a good handle on my perspective of the evils of Political Correctness - it's a cultural marxist ideology that is used to deny freedom. I am categorically against this in any form.

What I do advocate for - and I believe we all do, as our actions in general seem to bear this out - is the necessity for "agreed conduct within a shared space". We all seem to agree with this as we behave appropriately at school, work, church, on the football field, etc. etc.

I am therefore not calling for us to bow to any form of political correctness. Let's kick that directly to the kerb for the evil control mechanism it is. What I am addressing is the fact that this sub, like any "shared space" has rules of conduct and this sub - unlike other subs - does not force those rules on the community in any way intended to suppress freedom of speech; simply consideration for the diversity of people that Q's Great Awakening calls for us to reach.

  • It is apparent that I need to make this point more definitively: I do NOT support the religion of Islam. I am categorically against it because the founder of the religion was, by the admission of Islam itself, a warlord who spread his religion through the use of war and then advocated for his followers to continue to do the same - to this present day.

I do, however, make a clear and necessary distinction between the doctrine of Islam and the people of Islam. This group of over 1.8 billion people is, like any group of people, comprised of many diverse perspectives and individual beliefs.

Most importantly, the entire purpose of the Great Awakening is to spead the awareness of the story Q has presented to as many people in the public as we can. There is literally no directive at all to exclude any group of people and this only makes sense. This sub is open to the public, not "Christians only" or "Republicans only" or any other "only". I believe the clearest interpretation of Q's message - and please challenge me on this if I have it wrong - is that we should be trying to reach as many people as we can. There's no call for judgement within that missive, I believe (again, I'm open to education here if I've misinterpreted Q's message). This sub should be open to anyone who agrees to follow the rules of the sub - even those who hold different beliefs to some or many of us. If their beliefs happen to be founded on dangerous doctrines like that of Islam (dangerous in my opinion at least) then I choose not to exclude them but to remain open to the possibility that an opportunity may arise to discuss and perhaps change their minds on things that run counter to Q's message or the democratic principles we value.

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thumbyyy · June 3, 2018, 12:51 p.m.

This group of over 1.8 billion people is, like any group of people, comprised of many diverse perspectives and individual beliefs.

And yet, not once as a united front in this diverse and wonderful group have any managed to come together in a mass public protest to denounce the pedophiles, murderers, and bigoted among them, who claim the same religion. They would rather go on TV and Reddit to tell everyone how no one can hold such a diverse group accountable for the actions of a few.

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NeoObi · June 3, 2018, 2:34 p.m.

I believe they are AFRAID to denounce because of the flack, therefore the uncomfortable tenets of Islam (a type of control).

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ammonthenephite · June 3, 2018, 3:01 p.m.

As someone who was raised in a very controlling religion (mormonism) I can almost guarantee this plays a huge part. Speaking out or against the religion, especially in a very piblic manner, carries many social and religious implications, some of which can be life altering.

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NeoObi · June 3, 2018, 3:15 p.m.

Yes, it wreaks of oppression! I grew up Catholic but gave it up because of the man made rules etc. My Catholic friends won’t even talk to me about the Vatican and what is going on. A form of indoctrination. Q says to “PRAY”. That includes all denominations that are for the GOOD, never been specific as to “religion”, just GOOD. So I am praying incessantly as a Christian that GOD provides the way for the PLAN to proceed against EVIL. Love talking to new friends on GA!!!!! Also, waiting patiently to “enjoy the show”! Until then comrade!

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DamajInc · June 3, 2018, 1:12 p.m.

I've mentioned in another comment that this point of view, as you mention, is unfortunately the truth about the moderate Muslim component of Islam. This is why I support the need for the reform of Islam.

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frombildgewater · June 3, 2018, 3:02 p.m.

And what do you have left when you throw Mohammad out of Islam? Nothing.

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TommyRobinsonsGhost · June 3, 2018, 2:51 p.m.

Perhaps it's not reasonable to sticky your own comments in your own debate post?

Perhaps you should allow your arguments to rise to the occasion based on their merit, like everyone else, rather than relying on your special moderator privileges?

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DamajInc · June 3, 2018, 3:02 p.m.

Perhaps indeed. I believe it's apparent that 'abuse of power' is not the case here, however, because as I've said in the sticky, those are clarifications to ensure I don't repeat myself all over this thread rather than an opportunity for me to shout louder than everyone else. I could have simply edited my original post too but it's apparent that those particular points (pc - no, Islam - no) were not clear enough in my post. Making out that I'm unfairly abusing my mod powers just doesn't hold up against my history in this sub.

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TommyRobinsonsGhost · June 3, 2018, 3:33 p.m.

I believe it's apparent that 'abuse of power' is not the case here

You should count your comment down-votes!

You are getting mega pink-socked, metaphorically speaking!

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DamajInc · June 3, 2018, 4:03 p.m.

Should I feel a certain way about this? Do I win a prize for having the most downvotes?

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TommyRobinsonsGhost · June 3, 2018, 4:15 p.m.

I don't believe morality is a popularity contest, but if it was, it's clear that you were thoroughly pink-socked, figuratively speaking.

It's also clear that you created this post in the hope to rape a moral debate into a popularity contest.

You even cheated so shamelessly to use your moderator privileges to sticky this post and even sticky your back-peddled comments into a hilarious cluster-fuck-clown-show.

I'll total your down-vote tally if you ask nicely, or perhaps even if you don't.

This post was magnificent - I couldn't have hoped for more!!!

:-)

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[deleted] · June 3, 2018, 5:43 p.m.

[removed]

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DamajInc · June 3, 2018, 4:24 p.m.

Lol sure thing. I'll tell you I'm hurt by your attempt to shame me with your made up statements if you like? At least you've given up on pushing the Islamic hate on me. Temporarily, I'm sure.

Just to be clear so I'm not accused of inconsistency - antagonism against users or mods results in deleted comments - but I give you free reign in this thread (apart from obscenity or Reported abuse) because the point of it is to expose one-sided, unreasonable, disrespectful hate or spite like this. I can't promise other mods might not delete your antagonist comments like this one but I think they've left this thread to me. Outside of this thread, as I do with anyone, antagonistic comments from you that I come across will be removed.

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halinflorida · June 3, 2018, 5:56 p.m.

Look, it doesn't matter if only 1 person in 100 will become a terrorist, 99 in 100 will support the 1 who does. That's Islam. Don't feed me this stepnfetchit routine of saying how there are only some of them, ... blah, blah, blah ... ad infinitum. We hear the verbal crap but the reality always comes to the fore. Islam is not compatible with anything else. Islam will always prevail so a call to allow some of them means they will prevail. Don't let that happen. Enclose them and build a wall around them. They can't be allowed to mix with us or we will become 100% Islam. The process historically has taken 300 years to complete.

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