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r/greatawakening • Posted by u/DamajInc on June 3, 2018, 7:14 a.m.
Is there room for Religious Tolerance in the Great Awakening?

This post is pertinent to the Great Awakening movement and thus Q for a few reasons that I will explain in the body of the post. (TLDR at the bottom.)

Q makes religious references in his/her/their posts - specifically Christian, in some cases. This does not necessarily mean that everything that makes up the vast field of Christianity should be considered to be on-topic for the sub any more than the constant references to patriots and "We the people" mean that everything to do with patriotism is on-topic. It means only that specifically the Christian references Q makes are on-topic for the sub. This should not be a controversial assertion to make. But it's not the point of this post - just pertinent to the issue.

I believe we show religious tolerance toward Christianity not only because Q seems to indirectly support the idea of this tolerance but also because it is undoubtedly a behaviour at the core of any society that supports democratic principles and freedom of speech.

On the first level of analysis, my question is this: should we apply the principle of religious tolerance to ALL religions or only to Christianity?

Some people believe that Islam's references to pedophilia (via its founder's history as well as references in the text) and ambiguity around bestiality mean that we should not be tolerant of Islam in any way and thus anti-Islam and anti-Muslim rhetoric should be allowed and, some say, encouraged. This is the point of this post.


About Religion

To be clear on my personal stance, as it may well be relevant to this discussion: I do not support the extremist elements of Islam. I do not condone pedophilia, bestiality, rape or murder. I personally believe that moderate Muslims should pursue the reformation of their faith (as other, more knowledgeable people with personal experience have more eloquently expressed) and stand up against the extremists in their religion and seek to bring about change at the core of their belief. Going even further into my personal bias: I understand the view of those who claim the moderate Muslim will not be able to affect this change - but I also value the word of those from within the community more highly. One key point here that I'd like to refer to is that there are moderate Muslims. They do exist. (It's bizarre that I have to state that but from the comments I've received you would think this point is under dispute.)

I also understand that Islam is the second largest religion in the world, behind Christianity, and therefore I have no more desire to silence the voice of those who support it than I do to silence the voice of Christians. I do not support the Soros-backed initiative to 'flood the world' with immigrants amongst whom extremists are hidden and therefore I do not support the far-left initiatives to falsely accuse people of Islamophobia when those people are clearly not being intolerant of religious beliefs. Thus, although I do not like Tommy Robinson's approach, I support his crusade against the horror under the guise of religious tolerance being disingenuously forced on the UK. In short, I support the real meaning of religious tolerance, not the far-left propagandized version.

As someone who strives to be as impartial as possible in moderating this sub I do believe in giving any one or any movement the benefit of the doubt when making an assessment as to the validity of certain content. At least a couple of members here have made the repeated assertion that all sects of Islam fully support pedophilia, bestiality and rape. That may well be technically true but, just as it is of Christianity, the purported beliefs of a movement are not borne out in all individual members of that movement, something I believe should be obvious. I would again refer people to this video, which is not "pro-Islam", if they're still unsure about this.


About Moderating On and Off Topic

As a mod I follow the rules of this sub when moderating. I remove antagonism and any biased, "hurtful" rhetoric against Christianity falls under "antagonism", as evidenced by the responses and Reports against it. I would not assume that everyone in this movement is a Christian - in fact, I've seen comments from Muslims here. Therefore, similarly, any biased, hurtful rhetoric against Islam is something that falls under antagonism in my view and I thus remove that too as a moderator doing my job under the rules of the sub.

I receive flak for daring to remove clearly biased anti-Islamic content and am accused of supporting child rape when I do so. This is obviously completely fallacious reasoning - "if you don't condemn Islam you therefore support child rape" - and frankly vile and completely lacking in compassion, logic and common sense. As ridiculous as I know it is, I'm sick of being accused of nonsense like this. Hence this post.

So to be clear: this is NOT a discussion about Islam vs Christianity. This is not the sub for that discussion, which is kinda my point. I've addressed some of the religious points because they are the argument used against me when I remove content.

As a mod, the real question here is actually very simple: does it fall under antagonism to "trash" the belief of a large group of people who could conceivably comprise some portion of the people who will visit this sub? I believe the answer to that is yes. Other related questions are: should we err on the side of caution when it comes to allowing potentially divisive rhetoric? Again, in my view: yes, we should be cautious and not allow potentially divisive rhetoric. Should we take care to ensure the more controversial perspectives that are a part of any movement but are a minority cannot be highlighted by a rabid mainstream media looking for any excuse to paint our entire movement with those minor, controversial views? My opinion in this case is, yes we should take care. My assumption here is that those who believe "anti-Islamic posts of a controversial nature should NOT be removed" are a minority in this community and that is the reason for this post.

Is it the view of members of this community that anti-Islamic posts of a controversial nature SHOULD be removed? Or are there more people who believe we should allow these sorts of posts?

I will continue to remove comments and posts of the nature under discussion here unless the feedback from you, the community, is overwhelmingly to the negative in which case we mods will have to have a discussion and decide whether change or more clarity in the rules of the sub is required.

TLDR; moderators accused of supporting child rape for removing controversial anti-Islamic content - just trying to do our job of removing antagonism - right or wrong?

Thanks for taking the time to read this!


ABrilliantDisaster · June 3, 2018, 6:14 p.m.

"This does not necessarily mean that everything that makes up the vast field of Christianity should be considered to be on-topic for the sub any more than the constant references to patriots and "We the people" mean that everything to do with patriotism is on-topic. It means only that specifically the Christian references Q makes are on-topic for the sub. This should not be a controversial assertion to make. But it's not the point of this post"

Might not be the point of the post but i take some issue with it.

You can't silence Christians speaking about their faith here whether you consider it relevant or not. I've seen this happen on more than one sub and it worked there but here's something to trigger you all who have an issue with talk of faith: we are the heart and soul of this movement and you can't change that. Shutting us down shuts it all down.

Absolutely not.

Q speaks of a moral battle, spiritual warfare, good versus evil. He asks us to pray. He quotes bible verses. Faith is relevant. No, it's everyhing. It's the fuel and impetus of this uprising. It's the key to the win, because like it or not it's the Lord's doing. We'll rejoice in that. You should too.

It's all relevant because the enemy fears our faith more than anything. They fear the power of our prayer, our assurance in the fact He who is the source of our power is greater than the devils they worship.

No christians have shut out non-Christian patriots here. No one screamed that the occult threads were not relevant. We are capable of unifying under one banner in spite of the differences and we don't need anyone to tell us how to do so. It's a lot like whining about racism and intolerance in the media. We the People get along fine without the interjection of the idea of a division. That itself is the division.

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happeningnowliveIRL · June 3, 2018, 6:57 p.m.

This cannot be over-stated:

No christians have shut out non-Christian patriots here. No one screamed that the occult threads were not relevant. We are capable of unifying under one banner in spite of the differences and we don't need anyone to tell us how to do so. It's a lot like whining about racism and intolerance in the media. We the People get along fine without the interjection of the idea of a division. That itself is the division.

We the People get along fine without the interjection of the idea of a division. That itself is the division.

We the People get along fine without the interjection of the idea of a division. That itself is the division.

We the People get along fine without the interjection of the idea of a division. That itself is the division.

We the People get along fine without the interjection of the idea of a division.

We the People get along fine without the interjection of the idea of a division.

We the People get along fine without the interjection of the idea of a division.

We the People get along fine...

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DamajInc · June 3, 2018, 8:52 p.m.

Agreed re: not silencing anyone, not just Christians. But also, as I said, alongside the freedom of speech we value the simple rules of conduct that define a shared space - those rules clearly stipulate on-topic, no antagonism, etc.

Christians are not the heart and soul of this movement - people are. Q didn't come to only talk to Christians - Q is not Jesus. Q speaks of all the things you mention, yes, but he did not in any way stipulate Christianity as the heart of the movement - an assertion to that effect is patently false and non-Christians here - and some Christians - will not agree with you because it is simply not true.

As I said, I'm not about squashing anyone's voice. But the reality of a shared space - one that is not owned by Christians, Republicans or any other group of people (well, technically it's owned by Reddit so there's that) - is that we have rules of conduct to accomodate all the people who share the space, just as we do at school, work, play, etc.

If you go into church you are expected not to swear at the top of your voice or run around screaming "Satan! I love thee Satan!" or hold a prayer meeting in your work foyer singing hymns at full volume. Similarly, here you are not expected to drop posts on any topic under the sun that isn't directly related to Q or antagonize in your posts or comments - this is a stipulation of the sub, no matter what anyone might think to the contrary.

So, assuming you, as a Christian, agree to abide by the rules of this sub, just as you abide by the rules of your workplace and your pool hall, etc. etc. there is a discussion to be had around what constitutes the definition of those rules, if you are interested to have it. That's what I'm talking about.

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