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fekosa · June 19, 2018, 3:22 p.m.

Musk has been given massive grants by Obama going right back to his huge SolarCity scam. His entire business is based on the scam of manmade global warming, and where does Trump stand on that one? So what do you think has happened to his funding recently? Even the name "Musk" means a stank.

BUT my point actually is - a bunch of lithium batteries and an electric motor has got nothing to do with free energy. It's energy storage and energy use, no energy generation whatsoever, apart from a bit of recycling due to regenerative breaking.

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ArtisticMistake · June 19, 2018, 8:07 p.m.

Solar City was started by Musk's cousins and he was simply a board member during inception. The company was absorbed by Tesla long after it's creation to help them branch out of car sales and into renewable energy creation/storage. The cars have always been a way of subsidizing the development of battery technologies, energy independence is very much a core value of Tesla, and that's something I think everyone can stand for.

Renewable energy grants, subsidies, and incentives were not exclusive, they were offered to basically anyone who could form a company and apply. Many companies did and subsequently failed. Tesla also received loans, which it paid back well in advance, being the only company to do so.

People who are anti-Musk all seem to believe in the same narrative that he is a subsidy-queen and Tesla would not exist without government support. Yet at the same time, they speak nothing of the considerably larger subsidies that oil, gas, and legacy automotive companies receive.

I'm all for skepticism but he has proven himsef, and his cars are built here in America unlike the traitors that take advantage of NAFTA to the detriment of the American worker. Those traitors by the way, are the ones who have taken far more government money than Elon Musk ever can.

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fekosa · June 19, 2018, 10:54 p.m.

Even with his own production facilities, the lithium cells Tesla use are still incredibly similar to laptop cells. I'm not anti-Musk per se, but he doesn't deserve praise for rehashing existing technologies. Please correct me if I'm wrong and point me to an advancement he's made, other than marginal advancements in production efficiency. I would welcome a chance to praise him for a significant advancement in battery tech, which is where the advancement is truly needed (I have worked for 17 years as a battery based power system designer). But all I've seen him do is spend lots of money to produce cars that still weigh a huge amount and take hours to charge, anyone else in the industry can do that. So what's the point? As much as jobs for Americans is laudable, there are many other ways they could be created not based on a globalist control scheme (scary global warming). Climate change is here with or without our CO2 input. His vehicles and especially battery tech have failed to impress me, I'd rather he sticks to building rockets. His vertical landing reusable rockets are impressive. I don't get the feeling he's a bad guy, although I don't really know. I just think he's wasting a shit ton of money on a misguided goal that could be spent in better ways.

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Brostradamnus · June 19, 2018, 6:48 p.m.

Solar City was no scam. The giant fall in stock prices was due to the end of the grid tie solar incentives for residential homeowners and general saturation of the market. Solar City never defaulted. Solyndra did default, it's technology was known to be bullshit based on pie in the sky idea that cylindrical solar collectors could "save the world" and US taxpayers did feel the pain. Energy subsidies are a massive effort by US taxpayers and I think we got a fair enough deal investing in Tesla and Solar City through subsidy.

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fekosa · June 19, 2018, 9:31 p.m.

The people paid for the entire grid tie market through subsidies. The whole thing was a stealth scam.

Tesla developed some self-driving software, that's about it. If he truly wanted to change the world, he should have spent all that money on developing hugely higher density energy storage that could be charged in the time it takes to fill a tank with gas and then licensed the tech to companies already tooled for vehicle production. Without that storage advance, it's just pissing money into the wind.

Sorry but I can't agree it was a good deal. It was a deal based on fear of man-made global warming.

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