President Elect ID: d03636 Wikidrama General 2: Derp Star edition Dec. 26, 2016, 6:19 a.m. No.329182   🗄️.is 🔗kun

The old thread was autosaging so it is time for a new one. Post and discuss wiki-related drama here.

 

These sorts of things might make good discussion topics:

  • Updates on the Gamergate edit war on Wikipedia

  • Similar misbehavior by the same edit warriors

  • Similar misbehavior on other subjects or other wikis

  • Investigations into Wikipedia: why is it such bullshit?

  • Whatever tickles your funny bone and is related to a wiki

 

Popular drama boards:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOVN

 

Wikipedia critics:

https://np.red*dit.com/r/WikiInAction

https://np.red*dit.com/r/wikipedia_critical

http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/

http://wikipediasucks.boards.net/

 

Alternatives to Wikipedia:

https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Miraheze

http://infogalactic.com/

 

Previous thread: https://archive.is/RYlD1

President Elect ID: d03636 Dec. 28, 2016, 10:01 a.m. No.329202   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>9846

Slatersteven took The Quixotic Potato to ANI for insulting someone at the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) talk page. TQP responded to everyone with the the usual smug admin "I'm so great" attitude, but the normies showed up before his friends did and he came out looking bad. Highlights include implying that MjolnirPants is racist against Dutch people for saying he broke WP:CIVIL, calling admin Oswah a newbie who would never make it through RfA, responding to comments with "lol", and opening a retaliatory ANI thread against his accuser.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:The_Quixotic_Potato

President Elect ID: d03636 Dec. 31, 2016, 11:11 a.m. No.329217   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>9218

Floquenbeam indeffed Soham321 ‎for requesting that Bishonen be desysopped. This is, apparently, "battleground conduct." As Stuka puts it: "Soham321 was hanged, drawn, and quartered after climbing the Reichstag at AE"

https://np.red*dit.com/r/WikiInAction/comments/5l7yvo/soham321_was_hanged_drawn_and_quartered_after/

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=757516265#Ms_Sarah_Welch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Soham321#December_2016

President Elect ID: d03636 Dec. 31, 2016, 7:57 p.m. No.329218   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>9222

>>329217

Bishonen has rev del'd some of Soham321's talk page and removed his talk page access.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=User+talk%3ASoham321

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Soham321&oldid=757638691#Disillusioned_by_your_block

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 1, 2017, 11:26 a.m. No.329222   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>9227

>>329218

> Bishonen has rev del'd some of Soham321's talk page and removed his talk page access.

 

I missed whatever was revdel'd but someone also modified Soham's comment in the database or else we would see the original text and not "redacted" here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Soham321&diff=757613079&oldid=757611969

 

That was where Soham had copied in some of The Dark Knight's insults from Wikipedia Sucks. They were mostly directed towards Floq, some towards Wikipedia as a whole.

http://wikipediasucks.boards.net/thread/438/finally-got-indeffed

 

Questions that this raises:

 

  1. When this was at AE, Soham had called for Bish to lose admin rights. That makes Bish involved. Is it proper for Bish to have used tools in this case?

  2. Is this a proper use of revdel?

  3. Is this a proper use of the database? BLP could be said to apply to the insults against Floq, but not to the insult against Wikipedia as a whole.

  4. Was it proper to revoke talk page access?

  5. Is this a valid case for IAR? Some of it? All of it? Should the admins ignore the rules in their own use of the tools?

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 1, 2017, 11:36 a.m. No.329223   🗄️.is 🔗kun

How Not To Do PR

 

At Jimbo's talk page someone is demanding that Jimbo personally create a page for Igor Janev, whose page was deleted in 2012.

Deletion log: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&page=Igor+Janev

 

The first request was ignored, so they keep coming back with with an endless number of new IPs to make the same request, and people keep deleting them as spam. Their latest persuasion technique is to declare Jimbo an enemy of the Republic of Macedonia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=757774555&oldid=757774061

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 1, 2017, 3:41 p.m. No.329227   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Correction to >>329222

It is possible that Soham321 "redacted" the comments himself and no one edited the database directly. The Dark Knight suggests this is the case.

http://wikipediasucks.boards.net/thread/438/finally-got-indeffed?page=2

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 4, 2017, 6:51 a.m. No.329274   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>9291 >>0210

There is a huge debate at Category_talk:People_of_Jewish_descent over whether Jews should be considered to be of Middle Eastern and Southwest Asian descent. Well, duh. Right? It should be an easy question but this is Wikipedia so there must be drama, and because this is a Middle East conflict it is going to last forever.

 

2013

Evildoer187 added the Southwest Asian and Middle Eastern categories on 6 and 18 December 2012. Debresser removed them on 30 September 2013. The first edit war flared up in November 2013 after IPs added and removed categories. Debresser removed the Southwest Asian category without an explanation and edit warred with Evildoer187 over it until Evildoer187 gave up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:People_of_Jewish_descent&offset=&limit=500&action=history

 

2014

 

Evildoer187 came back in February 2014 to restore the Southwest Asian category and open a discussion on the talk page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:People_of_Jewish_descent#Middle_Eastern.2FSouthwest_Asian_descent

 

Nishidani stands against the obvious on the grounds that foreigners can join the Jewish tribe by converting. When the other editors point out that you can say the same about any group that has outsiders marry into them, Nishidani repeats his position over and over and goes on to question the others' competence, wrongly claim that "most Jews are Ashkenazi," complain about the "walls of text" of people citing evidence against his position, recommend a "peer reviewed" Palestinian researcher whose tenure hearing was a public controversy, and accuse the others of "hasbara memes."

 

Debresser joins Nishidani's side accusing other editors of edit warring and violating consensus by disagreeing with him and Nishidani. When he gets around to making a point, it is to claim that "Disregarding those Jews who are from the Middle East in the last generation or 2 or 3, no Jew would says he is of Middle eastern descent…" Both Debresser and Nishidani have dropped hints like this that they want the Jews out of the Middle Eastern category because knowledge of the Jews' historic origin in the Middle East could lead Wikipedia's readers to support Israel in the Arab-Israeli conflict.

 

Yambaram posted a long point-by-point summary of debate the and declared victory for the Keep side, but Liz halted him on procedural grounds.

> No, that's not how it works. A talk page conversation between 5 or 6 editors doesn't determine the basis of categorization of such a widely used category as "of descent". This disagreement needs to be the subject of an RFC or Dispute Resolution case. Liz Read! Talk! 16:29, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

 

Debresser followed up Liz by declaring "no consensus" and therefore victory for the Delete side.

 

Nishidani reported Evildoer187 to ANI and got him topic banned from all articles dealing with Judaism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive839#Evildoer_at_Ashkenazi_Jews._Repeated_disruptive_POV_pushing_over_an_extended_period_on_a_single_issue

 

Liz removed the Middle Eastern category on 9 May 2014, causing another edit war in which Ubikwit joined Nishidani and Debresser. Ubikwit had previously reported Evildoer187 to ANI for having the view that "Israel should not be included on the list of European colonial states."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive780#Evildoer187:violation_of_policy_WP:TPG_and_WP:DISRUPT.2C_failure_or_refusal_to.E2.80.9Cget_the_point.E2.80.9D.2C_tendentious_editing

 

A since-vanished user noted that the Middle Eastern category "was here since late 2012, and was removed only in February. There is no consensus for removing the category." Nishidani, Debresser, and Ubikwit continued edit warring to keep it out.

 

(continued in next post…)

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 4, 2017, 6:54 a.m. No.329275   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>9291 >>0267

2016

 

The edit war restarted in April 2016 after editors from the page for American people of Jewish descent noticed that Debresser was still edit warring the Middle Eastern category here when they had come to a consensus with Debresser for inclusion on their page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:American_people_of_Jewish_descent#Americans_of_Southwest_Asian_Descent

 

Electoralist, a newcomer to the edit war, POINTily tried to add in categories for European and African descent because many converts are not native to the Middle East.

 

Debresser continued edit warring through September and took to the talk page to start another gigantic thread by telling another succession of Jews that they do not know their own history. Jews from Germany call themselves German Jews meaning they come from both Germany (Europe) and Judea (the Middle E… oh, forget it, just ignore the "Jews" part). By the same logic African-Americans might be surprised to learn that their ancestors did not come from Africa. Debresser picks up an unexpected supporter in Sir Joseph who repeats the argument about converts. Bus stop and Robert McClenon join in on the same side.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:People_of_Jewish_descent#Middle_East_category_Rfc

 

After pro-Keep editor Bubbecraft accused Debresser of filibustering, McClenon taunted Bubbecraft with his own words.

 

> I would like to recommend this RFC be withdrawn and reformulated because the RFC doesn't ask a question thereby encouraging lengthy argument. The original posts are too long, difficult to follow and may be construed as having something of the nature of a filibuster. Bubbecraft (talk) 06:08, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

> I agree that Bubbecraft's posts are too long, difficult to read, and they are what I characterized as a filibuster… Robert McClenon (talk) 15:41, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

 

Bus stop shows his opposition is all about taking sides in the Arab-Israeli conflict, repeating this question four times while ignoring Jeffgr9's responses.

> Would a nonobservant Jew in the United States who does not care about Israel be "predominantly Middle Eastern"? Bus stop (talk) 20:55, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

 

Finally Bubbecraft opened a vote. Eggishorn, a previously uninvolved editor, closed it in favor of keep based on the "strength of reference sources and policy-based arguments."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:People_of_Jewish_descent#Survey

 

2017

 

Sir Joseph complained about the non-admin closure at AN and, with Bus Stop, demanded that Eggishorn present sources for the Keep opinion. Only In Death called them out for relitigating the case at AN and told them to STFU, while Jbhunley joined their cause and called for the decision to be overturned. This is still ongoing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#RFC_Closure_review_Category_talk:People_of_Jewish_descent.23Survey

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 5, 2017, 10:38 a.m. No.329293   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>9324

About those reliable sources that Wikipedia loves so much…

 

The Washington Post's Express magazine did a story about a womens' march to oppose Trump. They illustrated it with the universally recognized Mars (male) symbol. How did this happen? The best guess is that no one knew what the Venus (female) symbol looked like so they googled it and came up with a computer-generated infobox built from a Wikipedia page that told them the male symbol was the female symbol. They did not bother to click through to the Wikipedia page.

https://twitter.com/WaPoExpress/status/817010323978907648 https://archive.is/RCjfV

 

This went through editing and no one saw a problem with it. This is the quality of research and fact-checking performed by "reliable sources" these days.

 

Remember Arbcomgate.

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 5, 2017, 10:51 a.m. No.329294   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>9319 >>9324

Acupuncture

 

Kashmiri reported Jytdog and Alexbrn to ANI for making threats and acting like they owned the page for Meridian (Chinese medicine). Jytdog has gone from "protecting" science articles to inserting his opinion into acupuncture pages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Unacceptable.3F

 

This was predicted by that IP that Bishonen banned for calling them out for banning people for their opinions. The IP also reads "the offsite complaint boards." Hi IP!

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=prev&oldid=751960843

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=751976624

 

A typical edit is Alexbrn scrubbing Chinese sources as "woo" in favor of a skeptic website.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Meridian_(Chinese_medicine)&diff=758285637&oldid=758285551

 

Mr Ernie quickly agrees that Kashmiri is "promoting fringe theories."

 

Jytdog came forth with a prepared litany of reasons why Kashmiri is not here to build an encyclopedia:

 

  • Kashmiri quoted one author's opinion to the author and not to "scientific consensus!"

  • Kashmiri describes acupuncture's concept of a meridian system as a "concept" rather than a "belief!"

  • Kashmiri has added numerous small details to medicine pages without citing additional sources! (someone would need to see if the existing references include these details to know if this complaint has merit.)

 

It is clear that the evidence against Kashmiri is not necessarily evidence of wrongdoing. Jytdog is throwing crap at Kashmiri and hoping some of it sticks. As usual, Jytdog's meatpuppet Kingofaces43 shows up to insist once again that Jytdog is perfect and Jytdog's target of the day is WP:NOTHERE. Kingofaces43 calls for a close with no action, seconded by Timothyjosephwood.

 

South Beach Diet

 

In a different thread that is also at ANI:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#South_Beach_Diet_redux

> As I mentioned above, Jytdog and Alexbrn have used threats of administrative action, repeatedly, to assert ownership over the subject. This was just another example of this. Anmccaff (talk) 20:06, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

 

Anmccaff claims to have caught Jytdog and Alexbrn misrepresenting a source and edit warring to reinsert it, so Jytdog and Alexbrn want Anmccaff topic-banned. Mjolnirpants claims to have read the source and calls Anmccaff's position "a bald-faced lie." Anmccaff quotes from the source to support his position. Bishonen rushes to call for an indefinite block of Anmccaff, followed by QuackGuru, JzG, Beyond My Ken, and Johnuniq supporting a topic ban.

 

When another editor added a dispute tag to the page, Jytdog and JzG opened a new Talk section demanding to know what that editor was doing in their article. JzG denounced Anmccaff as a "believer in bullshit" and Mjolnirpants compared the credibility of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health to that of Donald Trump's twitter account.

 

Meanwhile at Acupuncture, Jytdog will cite the website of an activist group. The group has a good reputation, but it is not MEDRS. If there are standards, they are not being applied evenly.

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 6, 2017, 4:26 p.m. No.329319   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>9324

>>329294 continued

 

> @Ivanvector: In evidence-based medicine the assumption is that something does not work unless there is evidence to the contrary, hence a fair presentation of this content in a lay encyclopedia is negative… Alexbrn (talk) 17:19, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

 

Here is your problem

 

That attitude works when you are an insurance company deciding what you will allow doctors to prescribe to a patient. It does not work when you are building an encyclopedia and you declare things to be false that have yet to be tested thoroughly. Someone who cannot tell the difference between the false and the unknown has no business editing science articles.

 

Good scientists will rarely make such simple declarations of truth or falsehood. Studies are usually presented in the form "Alice found this, Bob found that." Jumping the gun to declare things true or false will result in littering falsehoods throughout the encyclopedia.

 

Medical science in particular has sometimes been found to have a low reproducability rate.

https://qz.com/603356/why-scientific-studies-cant-be-reproduced/

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 6, 2017, 9:41 p.m. No.329321   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>9324

Today at AE, nobody seems to be aware that abortion is controversial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AE#Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ontario_Teacher_BFA_BEd

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 7, 2017, 3:45 a.m. No.329324   🗄️.is 🔗kun

>>329293

Surprised they didn't blame GG for this one for once, kek.

 

>>329294

>>329319

What really takes the cake here (so to speak) is that there is a Chinese Wikipedia article on Meridian, that's clear and concise, and have all the important citations of sources.

https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%BB%8F%E7%BB%9C

The wiki editors could've just directly translated the whole thing to proper English to save themselves all the trouble, but instead they have to make up their own fiction and pretend that they're the facts instead.

 

>>329321

Makes sense, the AE members were probably all failed abortions after all.

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 11, 2017, 3:27 p.m. No.329502   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>1409

Wikipedia deleted the article for the political comedy site The People's Cube. The multiple appearances of the author Oleg Atbashian on talk radio programs were not considered notable or reliable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/The_People's_Cube

 

JzG shows that his participation is more about politics than policy.

> Delete. It would indeed be notable if there was an example of good, funny, right-wing satire, but the consensus appears to be that this isn't it, so has been generally ignored by the kinds of sources we require. Sadly, all right-wing satire appears to fail Poe's Law. Guy (Help!) 14:23, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

 

Karunamon reported JzG to ANI. Samtar quickly threw out the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive943

 

> Karunamon, you are a crazy man for trying to bring this up at ANI. Are you seriously trying to report an admin part of the core clique with dozens of Wikifriends? That's not how Wikipedia works. You will just be BOOMERANG'ed. –Pudeo (talk) 01:13, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

> Dude, don't make comments like this. I opened this case because the facts are on my side and I fully expect them to be found in my favor. I don't share this belief that there is a "core clique" that ignores hard evidence when it's brought to them. Karunamon ✉ 01:22, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

 

Wikipedia's deletionists are now going after the page for Atbashian's earlier website Communists For Kerry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Communists_for_Kerry

 

The websites might not pass Wikipedia's notability rules for websites but Atbashian himself should meet GNG with his media appearances, the media references to his two websites, and his recent arrest for putting up stickers and posters at George Mason University. That is more than 1E.

 

More fun: Atbashian has criticized Wikipedia in the past.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/145873/what-islamic-supremacism-looks-oleg-atbashian

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 13, 2017, 8:25 a.m. No.329516   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>1574

206.255.40.218 is a new editor who has stepped on two political landmines in a row.

 

First he went to Jimbo's talk page to complain about the lack of neutrality in the Pizzagate article. JzG and Stephan Schultz took turns deleting his comment, with JzG describing a concern for upholding Wikipedia's 5 pillars as a "pointless rant" and – while involved – blocking the IP for two days with the false accusation of "trolling".

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=758282548&oldid=758281352

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=758289435&oldid=758288743

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=758291327&oldid=758291033

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=758292482&oldid=758292080

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=&page=206.255.40.218&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&hide_thanks_log=1&hide_tag_log=1&hide_review_log=1

 

Anthony Bradbury and Boing! said Zebedee refused the IP's unblock requests, with Bradbury repeating the false "troll" accusation and Boing claiming "all you want to do is promote blatant and damaging lies." All that the IP had done was call for a neutral presentation of the claims like in Wikipedia's other articles about conspiracy theories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:206.255.40.218

 

The IP took his case directly to Boing's talk page. Boing said screw the pillars, Wikipedia has a party line to follow.

> There has been lengthy, often acrimonious, discussion, and the current content was decided by consensus - and the consensus was that, backed by multiple reliable sources, it did not happen - and that that's what Wikipedia should say. You need to drop this now. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:32, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Boing!_said_Zebedee&diff=758647233&oldid=758646682

 

The IP did not help his case by then going to Alex Jones and claiming his corporate sponsorship proves his news is not fake

> Would it be worth mentioning in the opening paragraph that Jones' show has been hosted by IHeartMedia which is propriety of Bain Capital? I'm trying to avoid POV but to me this does back up the "fake news" notion of Jones' show seeing as the show is distributed by a "globalist" multi-national corporation, which seems to conflict with Jones' typical message.–206.255.40.218 (talk) 14:45, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Alex_Jones_(radio_host)&diff=prev&oldid=758776025

 

Next the IP found two editors Drewmutt and KenYokai reverting Go-Busters pages to Ryulong's personal bad translation so he reported them to ANI as sockpuppets. Sergecross73 is unaware of the history here.

> You're going to need a much stronger case to hypothetically prove they're Ryulong. Your examples above are hardly telltale signs that would point to him and him alone. Looking into his user page and comments, DrewMutt in particular does not really resemble Ryulong. Sergecross73 msg me 16:43, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

RickinBaltimore closed the case after Sergecross73 found that KenYokai had argued with Ryulong in the past, so these must be two different people.

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 13, 2017, 8:45 a.m. No.329517   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>2150

Back in 2014 Captain Occam gave the examples of Adnan Oktar, Giovanni Di Stefano, and Richard Lynn to show that Wikipedia does not follow its BLP policy when the admins don't like the subject.

http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4638

 

Captain Occam was recently unbanned so he brought the problem to Jimbo. Jimbo brushed it off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Articles_where_the_community_rejects_BLP_policy

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 13, 2017, 8:57 a.m. No.329518   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Meanwhile at WikiInAction…

 

> I'm doing a school research project about Wikipedia and would like to learn how one could edit even when their whole IP range is blocked. The literature indicates Wikipedia is effective in blocking proxies, TOR and other means. Thank you for your contribution to science. (self.WikiInAction)

https://np.red*dit.com/r/WikiInAction/comments/5nobgy/im_doing_a_school_research_project_about/

 

Hi, I'm doing a school research project to see how much toilet paper it would take to completely cover Jimbo's house. I will need a floor plan, map directions, a schedule of when Jimbo will be out, and someone to distract the guys at Costco's back loading area. It's for science.

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 14, 2017, 4 p.m. No.329536   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Should Wikipedia state that Darwin never made any reference to human races when it can be proven that he did?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:On_the_Origin_of_Species#Meaning_of_favoured_races:_sources

 

On the side of reality, Stan Giesbrecht has read On The Origin of Species and The Descent of Man

and can quote from them. On the anti-science side, Volunteer Marek has this website he really likes.

 

> The source, TalkOrigins, states: “Race, as used by Darwin, refers to varieties, not to human races. "

 

… which is like claiming something refers to H2O but not water. It's the same thing.

 

Marek is joined by Dave Souza and Johnuniq who plug their ears and say "LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING" while Giesbrecht outlines exactly what policies they are violating and how their excuses are evolving as he refutes them again and again.

 

Johnuniq took Giesbrecht to ANI and quickly gained the support of Robert McClenon, Bishonen, and JzG. Bishonen blocked Giesbrecht for two weeks, calling it "certainly egregious" that an ordinary user such as Giesbrecht would call out veteran editors on their policy violations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Origin_of_Species_dispute

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 15, 2017, 3:04 p.m. No.329544   🗄️.is 🔗kun

From SoulofThesteppe at WiA: Some admins/arbitrators say they have mental illness. Good or bad for wiki?

https://www.red*dit.com/r/WikiInAction/comments/5o5vw4/some_adminsarbitrators_say_they_have_mental/

 

This happened at Everymorning's RfA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Optional_RfA_candidate_poll#Everymorning:_December_29.2C_2016

 

> Finally, you identify on your user page as someone with Asperger syndrome. While I understand Wikipedia is a magnet for people with this diagnosis I hesitate to put people with mental illness in positions of trust. I honestly don't know if anyone but me has this opinion; I doubt few would be open about it. Please rethink over-sharing on your userpage. Chris Troutman (talk) 02:51, 11 January 2017

 

> @Chris troutman: I am most likely on the autism spectrum (Asperger's has been deprecated as a diagnosis, fyi), and it's no more of a mental illness than your assholery. For what it's worth, I'm also actually mentally ill, as are many other editors, and we are able to contribute quite productively, thanks. I see no shame in talking about neurodivergence and neurodiversity is an important part of our community. It's incredibly inappropriate to demean other editors for being open about mental illness OR neurodivergence. There are plenty of legitimate, kind, helpful critiques for this editor. Him being open about being on the spectrum is not one of them. Keilana (talk) 19:00, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

 

> After mistaking ASD for mental illness, he argued that people with mental illness should not be in positions of trust, and that they should not be open about it. As another person with mental illness, I know that I certainly find it to be demeaning. My illness does not affect my ability to edit Wikipedia, and someone so uninformed about mental illness certainly should not be making broad statements that it does. GorillaWarfare (talk) 19:35, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

 

> (edit conflict) @Lepricavark: It is demeaning, as being on the higher-functioning end of the Autism spectrum is not considered a mental illness by psychologists, and therefore it is demeaning. Also, considering that everyone here who is on the autism spectrum is offended by his comment, it's pretty safe to say that it is demeaning. WP:DICK definitely applies here. Wow, I'm in an edit-conflict with everyone today… and I just edit conflicted with GorillaWarfare twice when trying to add this. ThePlatypusofDoom (talk) 19:38, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

> Considering that you just (even if not intentionally) grossly insulted and was demeaning to her, I think calling you an asshole would be an acceptable response to that.. ThePlatypusofDoom (talk) 19:54, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

> 7/10 Per Kudpung, Everymorning's a solid editor. Personally, as a person with Asperger's (or on the Autism spectrum, the terminology is complicated), I'd be happy to have another admin with Asperger's, as many people with it tend to be very intelligent. ThePlatypusofDoom (talk) 19:02, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

 

> @Chris troutman and Lepricavark:, this isn't the first time Chris has been called out for his on-wiki behavior with regards to mental illness. The pattern shows that there is no "willingness to listen" on his part. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 19:57, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

 

Ed is Ed Erhart / The_Ed17 who has a few dramas to his credit in the last thread. https://archive.is/RYlD1

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 26, 2017, 4:37 p.m. No.329657   🗄️.is 🔗kun

At WiA, Niemti tells us:

> I don't know if many of you guys know or heard of me, but they just posted an interview with me, and it was heavily redacted as too hot for Wikipedia.

https://np.red*dit.com/r/WikiInAction/comments/5qcvk3/wikipediawikiproject_video_gamesnewsletter/

 

Most of the redactions fall into one of two categories.

 

  1. Niemti talking down other users. It wasn't seen as an issue when Gamaliel went after Eric Corbett in Signpost, but it should have been. This is justifiable.

  2. Linking to offsite information about Gamergate. This is probably because the editor is afraid of being blocked for "BLP" for linking to accurate information about Gamergate like so many others have been. Here are the links that were removed:

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/gamergates-eron-gjoni-breaks-silence-talks-about-infamous-zoe-quinn-post-five-guys-joke/

http://observer.com/2015/10/blame-gamergates-bad-rep-on-smears-and-shoddy-journalism/

https://twitter.com/draginol/status/751580498539978752

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOiXBzDmLJk#t=3m10s

 

They also removed a line talking down the Guardian's shoddy journalism. I hear that Jimbo is on the Guardian's board these days.

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 26, 2017, 5:05 p.m. No.329661   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0583

InfoGalactic admin Tears of Ovid sent a nastygram to a Wikipediocracy admin, got banned from WO, and then was caught sockpuppeting as a Muslim woman on Wikipedia while demanding that Jimbo do something about it.

http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8050#p198513

 

It is nice to see that the InfoGalactic admins are as level-headed as the Wikipedia admins, for certain values of "nice."

President Elect ID: d03636 Jan. 27, 2017, 5:15 p.m. No.329687   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0123

DrCrissy reported Kingofaces43 to AE for repeatedly taunting him with references to his GMO topic ban which he is not allowed to reply to. This violated the WP:CONDUCTTOBANNED policy as well as the basic civility policy. JzG, Sandstein, and EdJohnson declared that there is no problem with this behavior and Sandstein blocked DrCrissy for a week.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AE#Kingofaces43

President Elect ID: d03636 Feb. 3, 2017, 9:59 p.m. No.329846   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>9888 >>0613

Followup to >>329202

The Quixotic Potato caused enough trouble that GorillaWarfare spiked the spud for two weeks. TQP responded by attacking GorillaWarfare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:The_Quixotic_Potato&diff=758439444&oldid=758436685

> @GorillaWarfare: And how does that block protect the encyclopedia? WP:NOTPUNITIVE. (((The Quixotic Potato))) (talk) 20:11, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

> This is at least the third attack on Oshwah I've seen (see the two linked warnings above). You've given no indication you'll stop doing this, and now you've moved on to disrupting other users trying to interact with him. This is absolutely preventative. GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:13, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

> Define "attack". I am simply helping a fellow Wikipedian by explaining how to get the result they want. It may prevent Oshwah getting annoyed, but it does not prevent harm to the encyclopedia, and therefore it is not allowed. You are simply trying to punish me because I disagree with Oshwah. (((The Quixotic Potato))) (talk) 20:15, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

> @GorillaWarfare: Look at the damage to the encyclopedia Oshwah and yourself have already caused. My wikimood is pretty terrible. Why do you want to make it worse? (((The Quixotic Potato))) (talk) 20:17, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

 

Discussion continued to Rnddude's talk page where TQP brought up the scare of an 8chan raid against the Southern Poverty Law Center page. When was this? Potato means these three comments from the last thread. >>328573 >>328574 >>329143

 

Slatersteven saw the mention of an 8chan raid, asked for more info, and went to ANI to warn everyone. The Quixotic Potato's aggressive-aggressive responses must be seen to be believed:

> Time for a boomerang. Yet another straw man argument. Yet another false accusation. People love typing but they hate reading. Pretty much everything in the original post is incorrect. Three months ago some people from 8chan were talking about the SPLC article on an old 4chan raid channel. At the time I was using an IRC bouncer to monitor what they were up to. I requested protection. The article was protected for a while. I mentioned Archive.org and archive.is and webcitation.org on Rnddude's talkpage because I used their services to archive evidence. I have asked to OP to stop posting on my talkpage. (((The Quixotic Potato))) (talk) 17:10, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

> Slatersteven please stop annoying me. Leave me alone. (((The Quixotic Potato))) (talk) 17:21, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

> @Slatersteven I have already posted quite a lot of evidence on Wikipedia, including links to 8chan, archive.org, archive.is and webcitation.org (and screenshots on imgur)… Can you please stop talking about this stuff now? Please drop your stick, like I asked you to. If you continue talking about this subject then I will ignore you. … (((The Quixotic Potato))) (talk) 16:21, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

 

TQP's evidence that Motsebboh was an 8chan raider is that Motsebboh was quoted in one of our posts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Black_Kite&diff=757643423&oldid=757409027

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 9, 2017, 1:28 p.m. No.329970   🗄️.is 🔗kun

wikipedo bans Daily Mail as an 'unreliable' source:

http://archive.is/1i9KM

 

>Online encyclopaedia editors rule out publisher as a reference citing ‘reputation for poor fact checking and sensationalism’

 

>‘reputation for poor fact checking and sensationalism’

Reported in the Guardian (see archive)

 

For those who don't know, the Daily Mail (UK newspaper) is centre-right, and usually supports the Conservatives.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 9, 2017, 5 p.m. No.329972   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Collect has a good contribution to RSN.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:RSN#On_.22fact-checking.22

 

> I commend editors who believe that major newspapers are paragons of accuracy to examine:

> http://rrj.ca/a-checkered-present/ from 1999.

> http://articles.baltimoresun.com/keyword/newsweek Newsweek dismantled its fact-checking staff in 1996.

> https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2016/02/14/you-cant-have-a-healthy-democracy-without-well-informed-citizens-honderich.html Do not expect Google or Facebook to fact check anything.

> https://www.chapman.edu/law/_files/publications/CLR-11-davidanderson-lillianbevier-caroldarr-eugenevolokh-johnleo.pdf "Nor is it helpful to try to distinguish blogs on the grounds that they aren’t edited or fact-checked, and are thus more likely to be inaccurate. To begin with, many op-eds and newspaper columns are at most lightly edited and fact-checked, if that much. Some magazines maintain professional fact-checking staff, but most newspapers don’t."

> http://www.designnine.com/news/content/news-downsizing-affects-reliability "The larger point made by Smerconish is that the pranksters behind the hoax got away with it in part because downsized news organization no longer have the staff to check this kind of stuff. In the "old days," newspapers particularly had a fact checking staff that made sure that what reporters put in their articles was actually true. "

> In short, "fact checkers" other than the political ones who surface every four years, are almost extinct. Collect (talk) 17:32, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

 

The missing point is that Wikipedia considers mainstream news sources and academic papers reliable because they are traditionally assumed to go through a rigorous fact-checking process. There are now few to no media that check anything beyond the question whether it can get them sued. Standards have also dropped in academia due to the rush to publish. There are few reliable sources anymore.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 10, 2017, 11:28 p.m. No.330001   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0002

"Horseman of Wikibias" Travis Mason-Bushman aka disgraced former Wikipedia sysop FCYTravis/Polarscribe/NorthBySouthBaranof has had his Gamergate topic ban "terminated" by ArbCom appeal.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment&oldid=764292049#Amendment_request:_GamerGate

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 11, 2017, 9:10 a.m. No.330002   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0010

>>330001

> "Horseman of Wikibias" Travis Mason-Bushman aka disgraced former Wikipedia sysop FCYTravis/Polarscribe/NorthBySouthBaranof has had his Gamergate topic ban "terminated" by ArbCom appeal.

 

Where does he want to edit?

 

> … A current example is Linda Sarsour - she is one of the organizers of the 2017 Women's March, and I began editing that article in good faith … NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 18:05, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

 

At that page's Talk:

 

> It's been pretty well-established this woman is a proponent of Sharia and tweets hate speech against former Muslims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nimic86 (talk • contribs) 05:12, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

> To the contrary, reliable sources including the Washington Post have called such claims "false." Other posts have falsely claimed that she supports the imposition of Islamic law on the U.S. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 05:34, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

> For one, the addition cites and quotes several sources which are highly partisan and which do not meet reliable sourcing criteria for claims about living people, notably FrontPage Magazine, the Daily Caller and GatewayPundit… NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 17:39, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

 

and former(?) paid editor Missvain is involved:

 

> I've upped the protection on this, extending the time it is protected and requiring reviews of edits due to extensive BLP violations, etc. Thanks everyone. Missvain (talk) 04:38, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

> Hi Yschilov. Just letting you know, that Jerusalem Post and the Daily Caller are not reliable secondary sources because they are non-neutral publications. Therefore we cannot use them on Wikipedia. If say, the AP or Reuters talks about a connection to Hamas, then we can consider using it in the article. You can read more about reliable sources here. Thanks! Missvain (talk) 05:09, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

 

Anybody who does not find this suspicious should be banned from Wikipedia for failing WP:COMPETENCE.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 11, 2017, 7:57 p.m. No.330011   🗄️.is 🔗kun

NorthBySouthBaranof has issues with one of the sources that Yschilov is using for Linda Sarsour. Wow does he have issues.

 

> per WP:BLP - we are not quoting anything sourced solely to white supremacist nutters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Linda_Sarsour&diff=762867552&oldid=762865681

> Claim is sourced to a white supremacist blog, so it doesn't belong here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Linda_Sarsour&diff=762832345&oldid=762818068

> As per WP:BLP, do not revert again, this material is sourced to a white supremacist house organ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Linda_Sarsour&diff=762870608&oldid=762870413

 

Let's trace this source because it's fun and it's what the Wikipediots should be doing instead of edit warring over it.

 

North's "white supremacist house organ" is the Algemeiner, a Jewish news site.

The Algemeiner cites M. Catharine Evans of American Thinker, a Republican opinion site.

American Thinker cites Americans Against Hate, the group of Jewish activist Joe Kaufman.

Americans Against Hate cites a report by Sarmad S. Ali of the Columbia University School of Journalism which you can read here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070517013151/http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/election/2004/minority_ali01.asp

 

Sarmad S. Ali cites one Linda Sarsour.

 

> As the presidential election grew near, Linda Sarsour sat in her small office at the Arab-American Association in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, looking at the photos of two thickly bearded young Arabs on the front page of an Arabic-language newspaper.

> The paper carried fervent slogans calling on young people to become martyrs in the conflict with Israel.

> Sarsour, a 24-year-old Palestinian-American, sighed. One of the men, she said, was a cousin who has been in Israeli jails for 25 years. The other man, she said, was a family friend serving a 99-year prison sentence in Israel.

> Her brother-in-law, she said, is also serving a 12-year sentence, accused of being an activist in the Hamas, the religious militant group, though, she said, he was secular in his beliefs.

 

Congratulations to Linda Sarsour and Sarmad Ali! By Wikipedia logic, you are now white supremacists along with those Jewish guys!

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 12, 2017, 8:15 a.m. No.330012   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Neptune's Trident was taken to AE and blocked for two months for breaking his topic ban on Gamergate that was imposed by HJ Mitchell for adding truthful information to the infobox for Brianna Wu.

 

At ANI the admin corps was especially hard on two newbies for being newbies: 75.175.96.6 who was blocked 48h for bringing an ANI case against Jytdog without knowing what a diff is or how to make one, and Edson Frainlar, an Indian student working under his real name who Bishonen falsely accused of harassment for demanding evidence of other people's accusations of editing in bad faith.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 12, 2017, 11:58 p.m. No.330041   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>1574 >>2362

The CNN page had a list of controversies that Aquillion moved to a separate CNN Controversies page to reduce the clutter. One section that fell through the cracks was a controversy about the CNN headline "Trump wants GOP to court black voters — then slams voting rights for felons" which implies that blacks are felons. Saturnalia0 added the mission section because it had been on the CNN page. The Quixotic Potato removed it, edit warred to keep it out, and filibustered the talk page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CNN_controversies&action=history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:CNN_controversies#POV_and_UNDUE_edit_removed

 

> I'm not adding anything new, the content was in the CNN page. A user was moving minor controversies to this page and forgot to move this paragraph… Saturnalia0 (talk) 21:07, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

> Who cares where it came from, shit is shit and should be deleted. The burden is on you to prove that an addition is an improvement, but you cannot because it isn't. Oh, and controversies articles suck, just like controversies sections. (((The Quixotic Potato))) (talk) 21:11, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

 

Drmies joins in and exposes a bias against a conservative RS that should have him banned from all US politics and force a review of all of his administrator actions in the area.

> Shit is indeed shit and should be reverted … BTW, I'm not going to look at your other example, but the Daily Caller is never OK, as far as I'm concerned. Drmies (talk) 04:31, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

 

TQP ran to ANI to get the page protected because an IP had agreed with Saturnalia0.

 

Meanwhile…

 

> (cur | prev) 00:43, 13 February 2017‎ TheValeyard (talk | contribs)‎ . . (76,176 bytes) (-1,093)‎ . . (As far as sourcing goes, Deseret News is no better than worldnetdaily or Brietbart. A middling criticism solely by conservative wings isn't notable.) (undo)

 

The Desert News has been publishing for over 150 years. http://onlinelibrary.utah.gov/news/deseret.html

It seems like an ordinary newspaper. http://www.deseretnews.com/

 

TheValeyard appeared on February 4, lectured another user on Wikipedia notability guidelines in his second edit, and was greeted by The Quixotic Potato an hour and a half later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:TheValeyard

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=prev&oldid=763599948

 

TheValeyard removed an IP's comment from Jimbo's talk page, calling it "trolling and insulting." The removed comment looks like ordinary Jewish concerns about trivializing the memory of the Holocaust by comparing trivial things to Hitler.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=prev&oldid=765015008

 

TheValeyard seems to be another botter like The Quixotic Potato.

> 02:22, 5 February 2017 (diff | hist) . . (-81,716)‎ . . Groundhog Day ‎ (Undid revision 763755819 by Corker1 (talk) - this is witless trivia that doesn't belong in the article. the bot made a mistake, and I have corrected that mistake with the bot)

 

Prediction: We will be seeing more of TheValeyard here and at WiA.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 13, 2017, 7:37 p.m. No.330047   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0048

ProBoards has banned Wikipedia Sucks

 

http://wikipediasucks.boards.net currently says:

 

> TOS Deletion

> In accordance with Section 25(a) of the ProBoards Terms of Service, this forum has been taken offline.

 

Wow. What rule did they violate? Section 25(a) says:

 

> 25. TERMINATION

> (a) By ProBoards

> WITHOUT LIMITING ANY OTHER PROVISION OF THIS AGREEMENT, PROBOARDS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO, IN PROBOARDS' SOLE DISCRETION AND WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY, DENY USE OF THE WEBSITE AND/OR SERVICES TO ANY PERSON FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON AT ALL

 

So they violated the rule of "fuck you we don't like your face" subsection "suck my dick faggot." I wonder who they pissed off.

 

So far there is nothing about this at WiA or on Wikipediocracy where most of Wikipedia Sucks was banned from. Should we say "Refugees Welcome?"

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 16, 2017, 11:59 a.m. No.330083   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0591

Laser Brain blocked Ranze for three months for these three edits on the 12th:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ranze&diff=prev&oldid=765033312

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:People_v._Turner&diff=prev&oldid=765034831

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zo%C3%AB_Quinn&diff=prev&oldid=765035837

 

Kyohyi copied Ranze's appeal to AE and questioned the grounds for the block, as did a few other editors concurred.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AE#Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_Ranze

 

> First, I think it is important to point out that three out of four of Laser brain's diff's are basically a content dispute. His comments here, his block rationale on Ranze's talk page [30], and his "warning's" [31],[32] demonstrate that his motivation for blocking Ranze was due to him disagreeing on content with Ranze's contributions. This is pretty clearly WP: INVOLVED behavior for an admin. Further, Ranze is not subject to any gender based topic ban at this time, the last topic ban expired April of 2016. [33] –Kyohyi (talk) 19:13, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

> The diffs provided by LB show no violation. Some of the edits were removing Wiki voice, such as the one where the sentence was referred to as light, is that Wiki's opinion or some people? And I do fail to see how that article should be subject to sanctions. Sir Joseph (talk) 17:17, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

> I don't see justification for any sanction here. Whether the topic is covered by DS or not, the only disruptive behavior is one (debatably bad) revert. If that standard were applied consistently we'd have no editors left in edit American Politics or any other DS topic. The rest is down to content choices which is not a subject for AE or administrative action. James J. Lambden (talk) 03:54, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

 

Most of the debate ignored whether the block was justified and instead quibbled over whether or not the rape case People v. Turner falls under "gender based controversies." Then Slimvirgin got involved.

 

> Looking at just one of Ranze's edits, on 4 February he removed that the victim was unconscious. That she was unconscious, and therefore could not have consented, was the key factor in the case, so that was a highly provocative edit. SarahSV (talk) 23:21, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

 

Looking at that edit, Ranze had said:

> Consciousness at time of penetration isn't known as no M.E.s were present when Brock stopped.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=People_v._Turner&diff=prev&oldid=763624125

 

Normally this would be a time to look to the sources and see what they say. However, because SlimVirgin spoke, everyone quickly agreed that Ranze is a horrible person so they upheld the block and added a topic ban from anyone remotely related to gamergate or any gender-related dispute or controversy.

 

Also, SlimVirgin may have violated Wikipedia's sourcing rules by citing a court case in a content dispute.

 

> WP:RS expresses a strong preference for secondary sources; court documents are primary sources. And WP:BLP says, "Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person." Some editors take this very literally. –Weazie (talk) 06:40, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Barack_Obama_presidential_eligibility_litigation

 

> I just want to remind people that wikipedia, as a tertiary source, should generally be relying on secondary sources, per WP:RS, not primary sources, such as trial transcripts, court rulings, etc. for the article, which via cherry-picking leads quickly to something very akin to WP:OR. Some leeway is OK, but resist the urge to go overboard, especially where WP:BLP concerns may come into play. – Kendrick7talk 17:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Troy_Davis/Archive_1

 

It's another case of "rules for thee, but not for me."

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 17, 2017, 10:31 p.m. No.330123   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Beyond My Ken threatened DrCrissy with a block for mentioning the fact that he is under a IBAN. Capeo supported BMK. Previously, >>329687 DrCrissy had brought another user to AE for repeatedly taunting him about his topic ban. Beeblebrox describes that case as "entirely without merit."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Correct_place_to_report_interaction_ban_violation

 

Smallbones wants an answer to the question "How does Wikipedia governance work in 2-5 pages?" He has received no answers yet, but I imagine that someone might hand him the first few pages from the Cliff's Notes version of Kafka's "The Trial" and then yank the pages back before he can read them and call in a mob to beat the fuck out of him for no reason.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales

Leader ID: d03636 The Cult Feb. 18, 2017, 12:02 p.m. No.330124   🗄️.is 🔗kun

rogoldomedonfors on Wikipedia Review says:

http://wikipediareview.proboards.com/thread/102/contract-woes

> Early in 2016, the WMF staff decided to ask consultants Valerie Aurora and Ashe Dryden to help them with the drafting process of the Code of Conduct for technical spaces. It appears that Aurora and Dryden had various discussions with staff, face to face and by email, and made various recommendations. The results of that deliberation were largely concealed from the non-staff community members working on the Code. At various stages mention was made of a report that they had been commissioned to produce, and a staff task was opened to summarise it for publication. I have no hesitation is asserting that no such report was ever produced, and that the task, subsequently abandoned, to "summarise" it meant to cobble together the random comments into some kind of narrative.

 

You have got to be kidding me.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 19, 2017, 8:32 a.m. No.330132   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0317

Today's drama at AE is Thucydides411 vs. Coffee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AE#Thucydides411

 

There is a fight between two groups of editors at the page 2016 United States election interference by Russia over the inclusion of some material.

 

Some editors believe that if the challenged material is longstanding, it is against policy to remove it without consensus, so it must be restored.

> As plainly described by Melanie, the understanding on Talk page has been that the removal of longstanding article text, if challenged by reversion, requires consensus if it is to be removed again (see also [51] and [52]). Otherwise, almost every editor on the page (myself included, but also JFG, James J. Lambden, Guccisamsclub, Volunteer Marek and SPECIFICO) are guilty of the very same thing in the same or related contexts… -Darouet (talk) 20:29, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

 

Others believe that any material can be removed from an article, and it is then against policy to restore it without obtaining consensus.

> If we are ever going to enforce the discussion requirement, now is the time to do so because the data is so clear. He is exactly backwards here: you can't restore material challenged by removal unless you have consensus for reinstating. I propose a block of Thucydides411 for violating the discussion requirement, though the length would be negotiable. EdJohnston (talk) 19:11, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

> The discussion requirement seems to allow (a) first-time addition of new material without discussion, or (b) first time removal of material without discussion (if nobody removed it before), or (c) a revert of someone else's change if there is a clear talk page consensus against their change… EdJohnston (talk) 20:41, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

 

Coffee apparently had a hand in writing this policy.

> @EdJohnston: Your interpretation of the consensus required restriction is correct. Just so you're aware, when I originally created that templated restriction (which Bishonen applied to this page) it went to ArbCom for a full review where the wording ended up being tweaked to its current state. You can read through the entire ARCA here. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 02:03, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

 

Coffee blocked Thucydides411 for a week for failing to follow this policy that most Wikipedians seem to be unaware of. Who hasn't seen admins restore disputed content and block the remover? Thucydides411 immediately appealed, claiming that admins MelanieN and NeilN had supported his actions and eight other editors had done the same thing and had not been blocked.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 22, 2017, 12:58 p.m. No.330210   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0267

From today's ANI…

 

  1. Debresser is still trying to claim Jews are not from Judea >>329274 and went to ANI to complain "all those problematic editors are coming out of hiding" after Dani Ishai Behan complained about this and other edit wars in the Times of Israel.

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wikipedias-jewish-problem-pervasive-systemic-antisemitism/

Bbb23 has blocked a couple of IPs for getting involved.

 

  1. New user ארינמל joined to allege at RSN and Talk:B'Tselem that the organization describes the deaths of terrorists killed while engaging in terrorist attacks as irrelevant to Arab-Israeli hostilities. A quick web search on some of the names turns up nothing, suggesting that this is original research and not a copypaste job. Response by Hijiri 88:

> posting the same nonsense comment in multiple fora including a talk page and a noticeboard seems like it would fall afoul. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:21, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Casualty_Statistics:_Participation_in_hostilities_irrelevant.3F

 

… because questioning the reliability of a source on the Reliable Sources noticeboard is "nonsense." The RSN thread was closed for breaking the General Prohibition, also known as the 500/30 rule from Gamergate, which is serving its purpose by preventing new information from interfering with the official Wikipedia party line on these subjects.

 

For anyone who cares, the user's name translates as Antlion. The natural enemy of Gamergates!

http://schools-wikipedia.org/wp/a/Antlion.htm

 

  1. Roscelese reported Azarbarzin to ANI for adding derogatory information to the page for Reza Azlan, such as a section showing that he cusses on Twitter like everybody else. Azarbarzin counter-complained that Roscelese had been scrubbing well-sourced facts such as Azlan's membership in the pro-Iran lobbying group National Iranian American Council, for which Azarbarzin has also been adding sources that discuss scandals in the NIAC but do not mention Azlan. Both are clearly editing with an agenda. TimothyJosephWood is taking charge of the page and cutting through the partisan bullshit.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 23, 2017, 9:07 p.m. No.330227   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0234

>>330211

Maybe. I don't think starting a new encyclopedia with an obvious political slant is a good idea however. People need to learn from the lessons of Wikipedia's rules and organization that allowed agenda-pushers to eventually take control and subvert factual content. Figure out how to do it right and then think about forking Wikipedia. The answer isn't to fight subjectivity with more subjectivity.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 24, 2017, 9:02 a.m. No.330234   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0235 >>0236

>>330227

> People need to learn from the lessons of Wikipedia's rules and organization that allowed agenda-pushers to eventually take control and subvert factual content.

 

The problem is social, with the personnel and not with the rules. They do not follow their own rules and they aggressively ban anyone who calls for the rules to be followed. But hey, Jimbo gets to pal around with his rich friends and that's all that matters.

 

> Figure out how to do it right and then think about forking Wikipedia. The answer isn't to fight subjectivity with more subjectivity.

 

Unless you are launching another Wikipedia alternative this week, we have to work with whatever is available. InfoGalactic is the most viable alternative today. It has a nonpolitical name, some dedicated users, it pretends to be independent, and is too new to have earned a bad reputation.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 24, 2017, 11:31 a.m. No.330235   🗄️.is 🔗kun

>>330234

It has a highly political founder. It will repel those who are aware and aren't on the same wavelength and serve as a good smear for its enemies.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 24, 2017, 11:37 a.m. No.330236   🗄️.is 🔗kun

>>330234

Plus if you're saying the problem is entirely social and based on personnel you might as well just admit that the Wiki Dream is impossible because the same shit can end up happening anywhere. The sort of structure that Wikipedia needs is a professional legal body that isn't elected from the admin corps to settle arbitration. The process for becoming an admin needs to be different as well.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 25, 2017, 10:44 p.m. No.330252   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Kind of a side note:

 

Bretbart article

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/02/25/study-wikipedia-bots-locked-in-edit-wars-with-each-other-for-years/

on a Guardian article reporting on wikipedobots edit warring for years over contested links and shit

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/23/wikipedia-bot-editing-war-study

 

Polite sage.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 27, 2017, 9:16 a.m. No.330265   🗄️.is 🔗kun

A group of Wikipediots have the personal opinion that the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis is on par with Space Lizards From Mars and are ganging up to harass and force out the editors who disagree with their POV that the article should aggressively denounce the hypothesis.

 

jps opened a complaint on the Fringe Theories noticeboard with "Just noticed that this article has totally degenerated into a "sing the praises of AAH" claptrap."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FT/N#Aquatic_ape_hypothesis

 

Mjolnirpants makes this helpful contribution:

> Oh come on! It's obviously the right theory, just look at all the blowholes around here.

> Oh wait, they're blowhards. Nevermind then. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 19:18, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

 

74.70.146.1 reported CEngelbrecht2 to ANI as "a single-purpose account". That account's previous incarnation CEngelbrecht has edits dating back to 2007, although most of its work has been on this topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:CEngelbrecht2

 

Alexbrn and jps left threats on the talk page of Chris55.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Chris55#FOC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Harrassment_by_user:9SGjOSfyHJaQVsEmy9NS

 

Only In Death adds this personal attack at ANI:

> There has been a recent influx of the lunatic fringe. (See Fringe noticeboard and elwsewhere). Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:51, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

 

and jps explains his willingness to collaborate with other editors:

> Softlavender, please do not ping me for your own jollies as you are not an admin. Thanks. jps (talk)

> 9SGjOSfyHJaQVsEmy9NS Then take it from me, as I am an admin - stop that "final warning" nonsense and deal with what is simply a content issue by discussion on the relevant talk page. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:15, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

> Noted. I will take all further matters to WP:AE. jps (talk) 15:19, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

 

This dispute has been going on for years.

> Over these last few years I've seen the article's body text reduced to nothing, where the only focus winded up being "this idea is nuts, go back to sleep". Close to all description of the individual arguments deleted, where it was nothing of an encyclopedic entry. I've seen continous harassment against users adding neutral wordings against this negative bias, again on par with the methods of creationists and ID'ers against evolution describing users. … I see all this as a big threat to scientific thought and the well-intended purpose of Wikipedia. Enough is enough. If AAH is so bloody wrong, a neutral presentation would support that anyway. But that is not good enough, is it? –CEngelbrecht (talk) 20:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive825#User:CEngelbrecht_making_false_accusations_of_.27vandalism.27_and_sockpuppetry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive798#CEngelbrecht_and_the_aquatic_ape_hypothesis

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 27, 2017, 10:30 a.m. No.330266   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Wikipedia's WP:Fringe policy has been edited to justify all of the disruption that the anti-science "Science!!!" gang has caused. Compare today's page to the 2010 page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Fringe_theories&diff=351158562&oldid=350997523

 

In 2010, "fringe theories" was illustrated by the Face On Mars and was meant to describe:

> ideas that depart significantly from the prevailing or mainstream view in its particular field of study.[3] Examples include conspiracy theories, ideas which purport to be scientific theories but have little or no scientific support, esoteric claims about medicine, novel re-interpretations of history and so forth.

 

The page has been changed greatly since then by editors who cite the 2006 Wikipedia ArbCom ruling on Pseudoscience.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Pseudoscience

 

In that ruling, ArbCom made four categories:

> Obvious pseudoscience

> 15) Theories which, while purporting to be scientific, are obviously bogus, may be so labeled and categorized as such without more justification.

 

> Generally considered pseudoscience

> 16) Theories which have a following, such as astrology, but which are generally considered pseudoscience by the scientific community may properly contain that information and may be categorized as pseudoscience.

 

> Questionable science

> 17) Theories which have a substantial following, such as psychoanalysis, but which some critics allege to be pseudoscience, may contain information to that effect, but generally should not be so characterized.

 

> Alternative theoretical formulations

> 18) Alternative theoretical formulations which have a following within the scientific community are not pseudoscience, but part of the scientific process.

 

The WP:Fringe page today calls this the "spectrum of fringe theories," shortcut WP:FRINGE/PS which probably stands for Pseudoscience Spectrum. Wikipedia now treats every minority opinion in all sciences as conspiracy theories and Face On Mars quality fringiness and so we regularly see actual scientists getting run off by admins who got their knowledge about science from a Thomas Dolby music video.

Leader ID: d03636 Feb. 27, 2017, 11:10 a.m. No.330267   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Debresser's crusade >>330210 is still going on.

 

El_C overturned Eggishorn's closure in >>329275 and reclosed as "no consensus" based on nothing to do with the arguments:

> Re-closed as no consensus, due to issues the closer was unaware of but that nonetheless invalidate the closure. Namely, that there were too many participants on the keep side who appear to be SPAs with very few other contributions (including one banned sock). The discussion between the two sides was already really close before this was made evident. Therefore, erring on the side of consensus not having been reached seems like the logical resolution to this drawn-out saga. El_C 12:35, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

 

The "banned sock" is ChronoFrog who chose to stop using their account and began editing as an IP with proper disclosure. They were blocked for three months for outing threats, not for socking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive946#2601:84:4502:61EA:E492:DB5F:B7AA:EB86

 

The IP does not appear to have taken part in the RFC or the discussion.

Leader ID: d03636 March 4, 2017, 9:39 p.m. No.330287   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0289

The anti-GG clique fought for about a month over whether Five Guys' page should use "she" or "they" pronouns.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Zo%C3%AB_Quinn#Pronouns

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zo%C3%AB_Quinn&action=history

 

They've also been fighting on and off for months/years over whether the article should have her actual name (Chelsea Van Valkenburg) or not.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Zo%C3%AB_Quinn#Birth_Name

Leader ID: d03636 March 4, 2017, 10:30 p.m. No.330289   🗄️.is 🔗kun

>>330287

> If Zoe Quinn is not a woman, how can she be the victim of "misogyny"? Misogyny is, by definition, the hatred of women.AliceIngvild94 (talk) 18:45, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

> Rather inappropriate and off topic EvergreenFir (talk) 08:16, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

 

hahahahaha! "How dare someone think in our presence!"

Leader ID: d03636 March 7, 2017, 9:41 a.m. No.330310   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0313

Scientology is now an academic theory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Christ_myth_theory#What_deliberations_should_be_included.3F

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:RosaLuxemburgOnFreedom

Leader ID: d03636 March 9, 2017, 8:36 a.m. No.330315   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>1562

Volunteer Marek, My very best wishes, Specifico, and Steve Quinn are scrubbing the Russian hacking page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections&diff=768249326&oldid=768249048

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections&diff=768262753&oldid=768260645

 

Racosch affair: paid editing by senior members of Wikimedia Switzerland

https://wikibuster.wordpress.com/2017/03/09/swiss-papers-another-scandal-on-wikipedia-in-french/

Leader ID: d03636 March 10, 2017, 9 a.m. No.330317   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Today's ANI has two cases where veteran editors got disruptive and then reported their victims.

 

First up is some action at the page for the Alternative for Deutchland party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Alternative_for_Germany#Ideology_in_infobox

 

Hayek79 says there is too much stuff in the infobox so let's clean it up starting with one poorly sourced item:

 

> This list is far too long. I would suggest that we remove "antifeminism" at the very least, since this is probably unnecessary and needs to be properly sourced. Hayek79 (talk) 23:34, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

 

Beyond My Ken and Jytdog REEEEEEEEEEEEEE and edit war with Mélencron over this, add references to opinion pieces from the party's detractors, imply that Hayek79 must be a right-wing troll, accuse Hayek79 of canvassing for requesting the opinion of an administrator, and fill the talk page with gloating about their righteousness and personal attacks making assumptions about Hayek79's intentions.

 

Per Coffee's new discussion requirement policy >>330132 the challenged information must stay out until consensus can be built for retaining it. Quote: "you can't restore material challenged by removal unless you have consensus for reinstating."

Leader ID: d03636 March 10, 2017, 9:06 a.m. No.330318   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0348

In the second ANI case, Endercase is trying to document shadowbanning but found that the best sources are Breitbart, Infowars, and self-published blogs. However, the information in these sources can be verified if you take the time to look at the evidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Stealth_banning#Why_I_used_those_sources:_no_longer_meta

 

Endercase noticed that there is a disparity in the application of Wikipedia's reliable sourcing policy, a difference between:

 

  1. What the reliable source rules say (i.e., Breitbart clearly qualifies as a reliable source)

  2. How the rules are actually applied (admins will not let you use Breitbart)

  3. Common sense about when to IAR (if there is strong evidence to prove a source reliable or unreliable for a fact, it is reliable/unreliable for that fact regardless of RS policy)

 

To get the widest input on this subject, Endercase went to several different administrator boards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:RSN#Should_we_have_a_list_of_approved_and_not_approved_.22news.22_sources.3F

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOVN#Can_sources_be_banned.3F

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Question_about_your_vision

 

To keep partisan politics out of the discussions, Endercase posed his questions vaguely, so vaguely that nobody could tell what he was talking about. So they went through his history, saw the words Breitbart and Infowars, and started a partisan conflict. Fyddlestix and Only In Death found a related discussion about Breitbart hiring mainstream journalists with good reputations to report on the Mexican drug war. They use this example to conclude that these journalists are now frauds because they work for Breitbart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alfredo_Beltr%C3%A1n_Leyva

 

> Either way, the answer is no: Breitbart is not a reliable source for facts … Fyddlestix (talk) 17:15, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

> I would not use a far right publication which has 'issues' (putting it mildly) with people from south of the US border… on articles about crime south of the US border. I trust I dont need to point out the POV issue here? Only in death does duty end (talk) 17:34, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

 

Endercase has to remind the regulars of their own policy:

> At the top of this page it says: "This page is for posting questions regarding whether particular sources are reliable in context." … Endercase (talk) 18:07, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

 

They followed him to the other boards and busted up those discussions with comments like this:

> So far you have forumshopped this crap at RSN, jimbo's talk page and now here. Why dont you take a hint. Only in death does duty end (talk) 22:30, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

 

Hijiri 88 threw a hissy fit at RSN and reported Endercase to ANI, immediately poisoning the water with a personal attack:

 

> This user is apparently WP:NOTHERE, and I don't frankly know what to do.

 

Both cases are still open.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#WP:IDHT_and_WP:IDLI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Endercase

Leader ID: d03636 March 14, 2017, 6:27 p.m. No.330341   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Jorm took offense to the title of Guy Macon's Signpost op-ed "Wikipedia has Cancer."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2017-02-27/Op-ed

 

However, we can prove this to be true with logic!

 

  1. Wikipedia has Feminism

  2. Feminism is Cancer (per Milo Y.)

∴ Wikipedia has Cancer

 

This is proof! It's true!

 

Guy Macon is actually talking about Wikipedia's ballooning receipts and spending. Their assets are up to $91 million now and they are spending $65 million a year, and only $2 million of that is hosting costs. What are they spending all of that money on?

Leader ID: d03636 March 15, 2017, 10:39 a.m. No.330345   🗄️.is 🔗kun

From Eric Barbour at WO:

> I bet you didn't know that Karmafist was the focus of a plot–by Jimmy Wales and Steve Dunlop.

> They openly talked about "going meatspace" on him and trying to get him charged with federal crimes.

http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2115

Leader ID: d03636 March 15, 2017, 5:56 p.m. No.330348   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>1544

>>330318

IP stepped on a landmine

> Hijiri88 needs a long topic ban from American Politics for comments like "Breitbart.com and other rightist fake news sites" and "the FRC thread, about a Christian fundamentalist, anti-LGBT hate group" which suggest that Hijiri88 is incapable of cooperating with editors with different points of view. Breitbart is a real news source that meets WP:RS. A distaste for its political stances (WP:IDLI) is not grounds for disallowing it or comparing it to Infowars. Anyone who tries to enforce partisan purity on Wikipedia should be blocked as WP:NOTHERE. 71.198.247.231 (talk) 15:50, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

 

blocked by Bishonen, Bbb23, Ritchie333, Yamla, and The Blade of the Northern Lights, and Hijiri88 wrapped the comment in a WP:DENY block

Leader ID: d03636 March 16, 2017, 8:28 p.m. No.330351   🗄️.is 🔗kun

NorthBySouthBaranof is back to edit warring in Gamergate pages already.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brianna_Wu&oldid=769614981#Space_tourism_and_moon_rocks_…

Leader ID: d03636 March 17, 2017, 11:30 p.m. No.330355   🗄️.is 🔗kun

The Dark Knight on Wikipedia Review has a beef with Ritchie333:

> For his spectacular record of putting friends and the overall 'mission' above basic Wikipedia policy, current admin Ritchie333's admin candidate nominations, of which there have been several, bear close scrutiny. Any that look like they were not exactly new users when they first registered, probably weren't. And Ritchie's friends, well, they tend to be the sort of people who get banned, or otherwise 'retire' before the inevitable occurs.

http://wikipediareview.proboards.com/thread/204/sockpuppet-admins?page=1

 

And also:

http://wikipediareview.proboards.com/thread/190/daily-respond-wikipedia-idots-predictably?page=2

> Remember all those people in the RFC who said that this was not a ban, since the Mail would still be acceptable as a source for what it says itself? Yeah, they were lying……

> Check out the state of Tom Utley's biography after the Mail h8ters have fricked with it. Who he? Well, he's the Mail journalist who recently wrote a piece on the unreliability of Wikipedia.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tom_Utley&oldid=769954910

> All those references now tagged as "unreliable?", yeah, they're Mail pieces written by Utley himself.

> The two editors involved are Slatersteven and Guy Chapman, who later hacks some of them out for transparently false reasons.

> The former was one of the people called out by the Mail for their comments in the RFC, and the latter is the dude who thinks referring to the Mail as the "Daily Heil" on Jimbo's talk page is the way to convince people the Mail wasn't banned for POV reasons.

(FYI: Guy Chapman is JzG)

 

> Someone calling themselves slaterseven is the last person to comment in Utley's Mail piece. Oddly enough, he's telling lies. First he lies about Utley not admitting his son was the source of some vandalism to his article (it's right there, and was there when I first read the piece on the day of publication). Then he lies about it not having ever happened - he should probably ask an admin what the significance of this log entry is…..

> en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Tom+Utley

 

And also:

http://wikipediareview.proboards.com/thread/213/winkelvi-prisoner-number-38124?page=1

> There is a well known spectrum on Wikipedia - they are way too quick to pass judgement on new users, while at the other end, they are way too slow to show the door, politely and respectfully, to users who are well meaning but, for whatever reason, prove to be complete time-sinks.

> Winkelvi is at the extreme end of the spectrum, the time-sink end.

 

Nice commentary, worth stealing.

Leader ID: d03636 March 24, 2017, 1:18 p.m. No.330388   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Winkelvi is in trouble at ANI but who cares, this is entertaining.

 

> Endorse either continued block, 0RR, or both. … Neutralitytalk 22:34, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

 

> None of the admins (except Coffee) called for 0RR; we all called for 1RR instead. … Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:43, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

 

> Welcome to the "community" (of people who are not watching WV's talk page). Keri (t · c) 22:45, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

 

> Oh please. You want everything handled on ANI? Drmies (talk) 00:58, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

 

> No, just prolific, tendentious repeat offenders. What a fucking stupid question. Keri (t · c) 01:07, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

 

> What happened here to bring people like you out of the woodwork? First you're clamoring for openness, and when I ask if you want everything out in the open you say that's a "fucking stupid question". Learn some manners, child. Drmies (talk) 18:17, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

 

> Nowhere have I advocated for "everything to be handled on ANI". Your mocking tone and straw man ad hom tells me everything I need to know about you. Given that I have never advocated bringing "everything" to ANI, it is a fucking stupid question, designed purely to belittle me and undermine my opinion and dripping with trademark passive-aggression. As is your pathetic trolling/baiting attempt with "learn some manners, child." What's next, "your mom" jibes? As for "What happened here to bring people like you out of the woodwork?" And what exactly are "people like me"? You mean "other editors"? The "community"..? And "the "woodwork"? You mean working on the encyclopedia and not daring to question your judgment, like good little drones? What a thoroughly unpleasant little man you come across as. Keri (t · c) 18:58, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

 

> At about the same time as Drmies was insulting Keri, he left an abusive post on my talk page in which he stated that my "condition" (i.e,, my Asperger's, which I just mentioned in a comment) is more "excusable" than Winkelvi's.WTF? Coretheapple (talk) 19:09, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

 

Bishonen blocked Keri for calling Drmies a passive-aggressive cunt and also blocked an IP for asking why only one side was blocked. It does look like Keri started it all with that jibe at the "community."

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Keri&diff=771402898&oldid=771399415

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&page=User%3A91.49.79.216

Leader ID: d03636 March 26, 2017, 10:25 a.m. No.330412   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0417

Update on The Devil's Advocate:

Wikipedia Elites Change Reasons for Banning Dissident Editor

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/03/24/wikipedia-change-reasons-banning-editor/

 

They have dropped the charge of harassment, essentially admitting that it is false. They have also clarified that they want him gone because he argues for upholding Wikipedia policies on articles where the members of Arbcom would rather run roughshod over the encyclopedia.

 

In other Wiki news, Encyclopedia Dramatica had its domain lapse. They claim that se.nic failed to process their renewal payment and is not responding to their inquiries.

http://wikipediareview.proboards.com/thread/224/encyclopedia-dramatica-ed-deactivated-nic

> Domain registrar didn't log our last payment and haven't replied to our ticket. I sent them the receipt so we'll see.

https://twitter.com/EDdotSE/status/844732906211815424

 

The Nazi wiki Metapedia is down.

http://wikipediareview.proboards.com/thread/232/metapedia-wiki-3-25-17

Leader ID: d03636 March 26, 2017, 2:42 p.m. No.330417   🗄️.is 🔗kun

>>330412

ED has switched to .rs

 

https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Main_Page

 

Make sure to check out the article about "Horseman of Wikibias" Ryulong, it was updated to include his post-Wikipedia ban antics. https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Ryulong

Leader ID: d03636 March 27, 2017, 6:27 a.m. No.330421   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0562

JzG is scrubbing all of the references he can find to several economically liberal/libertarian think tanks and blaming it on Vipul. His targets include the Heritage Foundation and the econlib.org Library of Economics and Liberty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#massive_deletions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rjensen#Biased_sources

Leader ID: d03636 March 28, 2017, 7:44 a.m. No.330428   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0448

Wikipedia's 2012 paid editing scandal may be related to Gamergate.

 

TL/DR:

  • Wikipedia had a paid editing scandal in 2012 that was run through WMF UK and GLAM

  • Some of the same people from that scandal are in WMF DC or run in the same social circles

  • Sarah Stierch was quietly rehired by WMF DC after she was fired in 2014 for paid editing

  • Sarah Stierch links Gamergate to GLAM

  • Gamaliel, one of the key partisan admins in Gamergate, is closely linked to WMF DC

  • The Wikipedia board is aware of all of this and supports it. >>326054

 

Wikipedia, paid editing, GLAM, and Gamergate

 

  • From 2012:

> Roger Bamkin, trustee of the Wikimedia Foundation UK, whose LinkedIn page describes him as a high-return-earning PR consultant, appeared to be using Wikipedia’s main page "Did You Know" feature and the resources of Wikipedia’s GLAM WikiProject (Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museums) initiative to pimp his client’s project.

Max Klein of OCLC was also involved.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57514677-93/corruption-in-wikiland-paid-pr-scandal-erupts-at-wikipedia/ https://archive.is/hie2H

 

Roger Bamkin's Twitter @victuallers https://archive.is/3km6m retweets and mentions: @wikistrategies, Pete Forsyth's company; Creative Commons; WikiWomenInRed.

 

  • Sarah Stierch was exposed as a paid editor in January 2014, publicly fired, and quietly rehired by WMF DC some time later.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/wikipedia-fires-editor-who--enhanced-entries-for-cash-9052308.html https://archive.is/lFtMk

 

  • On May 30 2014, Sarah Stierch held a Wikipedia meetup at a women's studies event at University of Maryland, College Park. Attendee Shaun Edmonds created an article for Zoe Quinn for the first activity with his new Wikipedia account. The article described Quinn as a victim of sexist harassment citing Carly Smith's Escapist article about the Wizardchan incident.

https://twitter.com/sailorsuzaku/status/472383278708948994 https://archive.is/KIo2t

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/ShaunEdmonds https://archive.is/vktjq

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/College_Park/WMST_Summer https://archive.is/I913H

This suggests that Stierch was acting as a PR agent for Zoe Quinn before the Zoe Post.

 

  • Sarah Stierch / MissVain talked about GLAM in the context of Gamergate: https://archive.is/IhtaX

> I have interacted with only four of them - Black Kite, Future Perfect at Sunrise, TarainDC and Bilby - only one is a female in real life and I know her from GLAM editing projects. She is the only one that I know who has actively edited feminist topics prior to this. I actually consider Bilby an ally, but, I have never heard him or any of the other editors blatantly identify themselves as feminists.

 

Related info

 

  • Open Society Foundations / Open Society Institute is a mercenary spy agency that works for Islamists. One of their grantees is related to Gamergate. >>327792 >>327795 >>327924 >>328191

  • Jake Orlowitz >>324800 called for a Code of Conduct and supports George Soros's Open Society Foundations.

  • Wikimedia DC contains at least one other Soros operative and several left-wingers. >>324299

  • At least two other people in Wikimedia DC work for PR firms. >>323841 >>324394

  • Wikipedia and WMF DC refuse to confirm or deny whether or not Gamaliel is on their board, and tried to get a journalist fired for asking. >>325610

  • WMF DCer Emily Temple-Wood has received promotional coverage in the Guardian as a victim of online harassment. https://archive.is/SbIYX

  • The Guardian had its writers take instructions from Leigh Alexander who was at the center of the Gamergate, and rewarded her with work afterward. https://web.archive.org/web/20150329155719/https://i2.wp.com/theralphretort.com/wp-content/uploads/GUARDIANEMAIL1.png

  • Guardian writer Keith Stuart was involved in the #WeLoveGameDevs distraction tactic. https://archive.is/gVwEG (described: https://archive.is/mZCbD ) and promoted Brianna Wu. https://archive.is/88JHF

  • Jimmy Wales has called for abusing Wikipedia to manipulate public opinion to prevent another Brexit. >>325481

Leader ID: d03636 March 28, 2017, 7:54 a.m. No.330429   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Here is some extra research on some names that might be related. This is not dirt. The dirty people might be among this group or known to them.

 

The GLAM-Wiki US Consortium is intended to coordinate with libraries and museums. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/US/Consortium

 

Non-Wikipedians:

 

  • Merrilee Proffitt, OCLC (Online Computer Library Center, formerly Ohio College Library Center, maintainer of WorldCat). LinkedIn: https://archive.is/e9HnN

  • Bob Kosovsky, New York Public Library. LinkedIn: https://archive.is/Q0eQ7

  • Adrianne Russell, Marianna Kistler Beach Museum of Art, Kansas State. LinkedIn: https://archive.is/u4z9s Twitter @adriannerussell: https://archive.is/L3ToU Co-founder of Museums Respond to Ferguson. Retweets people supporting George Ciccariello-Maher who called for the genocide of all white people.

  • Sara Snyder, Archives of American Art, Smithsonian Institution. LinkedIn: https://archive.is/Mu6gT

  • Pam Wright, National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). LinkedIn: https://archive.is/PnTaO

  • Dylan Kinnett, Walters Art Museum. LinkedIn: https://archive.is/UQomr Summer 2004 intern editor with Eastgate Systems, the company of Mark Bernstein.

  • Lori Phillips - aka Lori Byrd Philips, Children's Museum of Indianapolis

 

Wikipedians:

 

  • Phoebe Ayers - No relation to Bill; everybody asks. Author of "How Wikipedia Works." LinkedIn: https://archive.is/e6arB

  • Andrew Lih - Wikimedia DC Cultural Outreach Committee. LinkedIn: https://archive.is/T344L teacher at American University, board member Student Press Law Center, 2001 guest lecturer at National Committee on U.S.-China Relations.

  • Dominic McDevitt-Parks - probably Dominic Byrd-McDevitt, member of Cultural Outreach Committee, also a NARA contact. Linkedin: https://archive.is/8qCcE

  • Pete Forsyth - Wiki Strategies, a PR company.

  • James Hare - Wikimedia DC President.

  • Jake Orlowitz - WMF staff.

  • Dorothy Howard - freelance writer, WikiConference USA 2014 Lead Conference Organizer, Art+Feminism Wikipedia Edit-a-Thon Starting October 2013. LinkedIn: https://archive.is/25Hdb

  • Alex Stinson - WMF staff, Wikipedia Library project manager.

 

Affiliates:

 

  • Max Klein - additional contact for OCLC.

  • Jane Park - School of Open, Open Policy Institute, Creative Commons

  • Peter Brantley & Brewster Kahle - Internet Archive

  • Joris Pekel & Sam Leon - Open Knowledge Foundation, OpenGLAM

  • Micah Walter - Smithsonian Cooper-Hewitt National Design Museum,

  • Karley Klopfenstein - American Folk Art Museum

 

Art+Feminism Wikipedia Edit-a-Thon

Starting October 2013 https://archive.is/25Hdb

 

February 2014 ArtAndFeminism edit-a-thon at Eyebeam Art and Technology Center in New York City. Organizers:

  • Siân Evans - Art Libraries Society of North America's Women and Art Special Interest Group. LinkedIn: https://archive.is/bJIm5 ARTStor, wrote ArtWatch for Forbes.

  • Jacqueline Mabey - The office of failed projects, Bennington College.

  • Michael Mandiberg - Profile: https://archive.is/8G1t6 CUNY professor of media culture. Recipient of residencies and commissions from Eyebeam, Rhizome.org, The Banff Centre, and Turbulence.org, his work has been exhibited at the New Museum, Ars Electronica, ZKM, and Transmediale.

  • Laurel Ptak - Website: https://archive.is/5yo48 director and curator at Triangle Arts Association.

  • Richard Knipel - President Wikimedia NYC, board member Wiki Education Foundation, Guggenheim Museum wikipedian in residence. Linkedin: https://archive.is/yuBab

 

Eyebeam and Buzzfeed share a cofounder. >>324818

Leader ID: d03636 March 31, 2017, 7:19 a.m. No.330448   🗄️.is 🔗kun

>>330428

Interesting. I wonder if the paid editors are working for Saudi Arabia because of the Gaffney mess and because Wikipedia is now enforcing the hard-right interpretation of Sharia Law by banning content that makes Islam look bad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:KarmaChameleon

Leader ID: d03636 April 7, 2017, 4:02 p.m. No.330457   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>1574

On April 2 Mike Cernovich reported that Susan Rice had "unmasked" or outed the identities of Trump campaign operatives in anonymized intelligence reports. Eli Lake issued a similar report the next day.

https://medium.com/@Cernovich/susan-rice-requested-unmasking-of-incoming-trump-administration-officials-30085b5cff16

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-04-03/top-obama-adviser-sought-names-of-trump-associates-in-intel

 

And at 07:08, 3 April 2017‎ Lectonar protected Susan Rice's page for "Violations of the biographies of living persons policy" that do not yet appear in the log.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Susan_Rice&offset=&limit=500&action=history

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Susan_Rice&offset=&limit=500&action=history

 

The first victim is McCouchsky who added the unsourced claim that "Susan Rice was confirmed by multiple news sources to have been responsible for the unmasking of democratic party political opponents on April 3 2017." Rather than improve this or request sources, Bishonen indefinitely banned McCouchsky. Yamla, Anthony Bradbury, and Huon rejected McCouchsky's appeals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Susan_Rice&diff=prev&oldid=773672166

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:McCouchsky#April_2017_2

 

NeilN removed comments by an IP who provided two sources and suggested changing the word "democratic" to "republican."

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Susan_Rice&diff=773725647&oldid=773725185

 

NeilN removed another IP's comments accusing the admins of gaslighting, and then blocked the IP while involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Susan_Rice&diff=773808220&oldid=773808014

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:172.58.233.191

 

TariqMatters accused NeilN of censoring the talk page. NeilN banned TariqMatters and removed a photo of Donald Trump from his page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Susan_Rice&diff=773995839&oldid=773994810

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:TariqMatters&diff=773995634&oldid=773995551

 

And on another IP's talk page, Ebyabe smugly said:

> The information you added about Susan Rice has now been completely removed, so it is no longer an issue. Thank you and have a pleasant day. –‖ Ebyabe talk - Inspector General ‖ 03:40, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:96.255.240.103

 

And that is how Wikipedia handles a Watergate-type scandal.

Leader ID: d03636 April 8, 2017, 8 p.m. No.330460   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Drama alert from Twitter's @mombot:

 

> The wikipedia admin who is editing the Gender Representation in Video Games article is the same guy who wrote Brianna Wu's wiki article.

> He is also the guy who is accused of aiding Brianna Wu to repeatedly edit the Samus Aran wikipedia article to indicate that Samus is trans.

https://twitter.com/mombot/status/850575226563829760

 

The admin is Sandstein who created Brianna Wu's page on 12 October 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brianna_Wu&offset=&limit=500&action=history

 

Wikipedia promoted the Gender Representation page through its twitter account.

https://twitter.com/Wikipedia/status/846381547204702208

Leader ID: d03636 April 10, 2017, 9:08 p.m. No.330466   🗄️.is 🔗kun

GoldenRing had a 'historic' RfA and was made an admin despite an uproar being made over his low edit count. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/GoldenRing#Oppose

 

You may remember in 2015 GoldenRing was the one who made an ARCA request about Gamaliel gaming the system to unleash his comrade Mark Bernstein back into the Gamergate area. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment&diff=prev&oldid=647662813

 

Both the 'retired' Gamaliel and Mark (who recently got off the 6-month block he earned last year) decided to come vote Oppose at this RfA in what definitely appears to be for spite in Mark's case. They were followed by an anti-GamerGate SPA (who may have seen a thread about it on reddit and canvassed itself) as well as the Wikibias diaperfag himself, NorthBySouthBaranof.

Leader ID: d03636 April 13, 2017, 8:17 a.m. No.330474   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>0562

> Reason for unblock - violation of WP:PRIMARY

> I agree to acknowledge, without reservation, that Reuters, the Chicago Business Journal, People Magazine, and ABC News are all WP:PRIMARY sources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:BlueSalix

Leader ID: d03636 April 15, 2017, 8:41 p.m. No.330485   🗄️.is 🔗kun

The Wikimedia Foundation globally banned Reguyla / Kumioko from all WMF projects for being a threat to "the health and safety" of Wikipedians.

http://wikipediareview.proboards.com/thread/269/reguyla-kumioko-globally-banned-wmf

 

The "abuse" consists of criticizing the head of Wikimedia UK for a bad indef.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Reguyla&diff=239785036&oldid=239083114

Leader ID: d03636 April 29, 2017, 2:18 p.m. No.330531   🗄️.is 🔗kun

Couchsurfing's safety team had a bad reputation.

http://www.opencouchsurfing.org/2011/03/12/unprofessional-couchsurfing-safety-team/ https://archive.is/Sc28o

 

> I was sexually assaulted by another couchsurfer at a couchsurfing party when he crept into the bed in which I was sleeping. When I was woken up by his fingers inside me, I pushed him off and went straight to a member of the “safety” team whom I had spoken to earlier that night. She and another Couchsurfing ambassador then spent an hour and a half screaming at me, and telling me I should not report what happened, as the man was a respected longterm couchsurfer and nobody would believe me.

 

> and what is it with banning people just for intellectual forum posts.My friend was banned for daring to argue with some lesbians in a forum who launched a cynical campaign against him. Nothing to do with his travel experiences just political correct totalitarianism.

 

> Shortly after Couchsurfing became a for-profit organisation, it was announced that all but two of the “Safety” Team were being sacked (using the euphemism “having their duties reduced”).

> I guess the investors running Couchsurfing realised exactly how much of a legal liability it was to have a “Safety’ Team that openly protected their friends from negative references, while simultaneously deleting or harassing Couchsurfers their friends disliked or felt threatened by.

> Unfortunately, it appears the two people who presided and abetted this unprofessionalism, Rachel DiCerbo and Kalliope Tsouroupidou, will still be involved in the Safety Team.

 

Rachel DiCerbo was later Director of Community Engagement for Wikipedia's Product department, and has since left WMF.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Rdicerb_(WMF)

 

Kalliope Tsouroupidou is on Wikipedia's safety team.

http://wikipediareview.proboards.com/thread/298/sleazebags-wmf-safety-trust