>>10488068 pb

So it's definitely a reasonable call to make to say that people who had pneumonia and COVID died of the pneumonia, and the pneumonia cases w/ COVID should be called pneumonia deaths.

I understand why it's in our best interest to make the death numbers smaller. With smaller death numbers, we can get back to normal quicker. We can avoid vaccines. But I'd think the better way to go instead of pretending that the 6% number actually meant something real, I'd rather make the case with each of these categories that they aren't really covid deaths.

There were 160K covid deaths. There were 60K covid + pneumonia deaths. 160 - 60 = 100K covid deaths. There, that removes a lot. Accidents. How many there? Remove those.

You're under 100K, so, "less than 100K" seems accurate. 9K (from the 6%) just isn't.

I'd add, if you see a young and healthy person without obvious preexisting conditions dying of covid - my first guess about what actually killed him would be medical malpractice. That Fentanyl + Ventilator bullshit.

>>10488251

You Fucking Retard.

That wasn't copy pasta.

You're too stupid to fucking understand what I'm saying to tell the difference between the copy pasta and other, similar writings.

That was original. You'll likely see the copypasta again, retard.

>>10488427

>>10482221 pb

About all this CDC changed their numbers from 160K to 9K.

We're really misinterpreting this data.

We're basically wrong.

And, collectively, we're kinda stupid about this.

Is anyone else besides me actually looking at the CDC page and what it says?

And are they understanding what it says?

You have 2 vastly different numbers.

One number - 160K - is how many people who had COVID who died.

Another number - 9K - tells you how many people died who only had COVID listed on their death form. That number, 9K, isn't even a real number. It was derived by getting 6% of 160K. The CDC mentioned that only 6% of the people who died only had COVID mentioned on the form, and someone outside of the CDC did the math.

The thing is, what that CDC page does is simply represent a tally of what people who filled out the forms put on those forms.

It's not at all a measurement of what people died from. It's a measurement of what people put on the forms of 160K dead people.

This might be difficult to understand.

On the CDC page there is a table that lists all of the different things that form fillers are putting on the forms. I'll pick out 4 of the many choices that are there.

1) Accidents like Motorcycle crashes + COVID.

We all heard about the guy with COVID who died in a motorcycle crash. He didn't die of COVID, the COVID didn't cause his death, it was the motorcycle crash, but he's on the list as a COVID death, and that's clearly wrong. And there are quite a large number of deaths that are like that. Those particular deaths shouldn't be on the COVID list.

2) Diabetes. Diabetes is one of quite a few preexisting conditions that have been marked on forms. People with diabetes have caught COVID, and died. It wasn't the diabetes that killed them though. They were alive with diabetes, and dead with COVID. Do we really think that we shouldn't call those deaths COVID deaths because the person who died had a preexisting condition? I don't. We have known since March that very old people and people with preexisting conditions are the most "at risk". At risk people, like people with diabetes, are catching COVID and dying, and when a form has diabetes and COVID on it, it was the COVID who killed them, and not the diabetes. Having the diabetes just makes it more likely they'll die, from the COVID.

3) Respiratory arrest / failure + COVID. This is a different category from diabetes. Respiratory arrest is what you die from (often, mostly) when you have COVID. Lungs get thick mucus, blood clots. We've known this for months. If a otherwise healthy person gets COVID, and then dies of respiratory failure, that's a person who dies of COVID. This respiratory failure is not something different from COVID. 2 people filling out forms might fill out the forms differently for the same person. Maybe one person puts down just COVID, maybe another person puts down COVID and respiratory failure.

4) Pneumonia. A lot of people died from COVID + pneumonia. 60K. In cases of COVID + pneumonia, I would argue that those are actually pneumonia deaths. We've known about HCQ + Zpack since March. The Zpack is the antibiotic, given to patients with COVID in order to prevent or treat pneumonia and other bacterial infections. I think that when the form says pneumonia, I would call that a pneumonia death, and not a COVID death. Removing the pneumonia deaths would take the total number of COVID deaths from 160K to about 100K, and I'd do that.

>>10488445

So, what do we have.

1) Accidents and other things that people die from that have nothing to do with COVID. Those should be removed from the COVID tally.

2) Pneumonia and other diseases which are the actual cause of death. 60K+. I'd say call deaths with pneumonia deaths, not COVID deaths and remove them.

3) Diabetes and other preexisting conditions which probably helped make the COVID fatal. I'd keep those on the list because it was the COVID that killed, not the preexisting conditions.

4) Respiratory arrest/failure. Those are symptoms of COVID, I'd call those COVID deaths and keep them on the list.

Anyway, you see how tricky this is, with 160K COVID deaths you have 160K slightly different cases. It's not 160K COVID deaths, but it's not 9K COVID deaths either, it's somewhere in between.

Additionally, you also have 5), which is not going to be on the form, which is Medical Malpractice. In places like Elmhurst, they would take everyone with COVID, give them Fentanyl, put them on Ventilators, and they would all die. See - Epicenter Nurse youtube. The people filling out the forms never put "Medical Malpractice" as a cause of death, but it does certainly appear that that was the real cause. People were coming in with anxiety, and Elmhurst put them with COVID people, they got COVID, then Fentanyl, Ventilators and Death.

So, accidents and other infections, I'd remove from the COVID list, and preexisting conditions and symptoms of COVID I'd keep on the list. In order to get a "real" number, you'd have to look at each one, for the most part, remove motorcycle crashes and pneumonia, and you'll get under 100k true COVID deaths.

>>10488286

I would think that the pneumonia deaths would be the first ones to go.

Pneumonia is deadly. And yes, the presence of the COVID made it easier for the Pneumonia to take hold, but it did take hold, and I'd call it a Pneumonia death.

Where do you see the mass of covid deaths that are not covid deaths coming from?

There are of course the accidents, the motorcycle crashes, that can go. But if you aren't going to remove the pneumonias, I'm not sure where you're going to find the others. If there isn't a virus or a bacterial infection, you really can't say that the persons underlying condition would have killed them in that time frame.

In reality, in order to get this exactly right, you'd need a lot of people to read each of these individual cases and make a determination.