Where is the Feb 16 2018 traffic cam image that you found, Anon? Please post the sauce for it.
Anon, that's a good pic for comparison with Q's ROT1. Please post a link or sauce and, if possible, a date from that sauce. Noice to add to the stash of images dug.
Very useful info on London Eye lights re closing. Looking for example images coz pics tell the story. As Q might say, we have moar than we know.
WWG1WGA
So far we have yet to definitively link the 2 Winter Wonderland pics with the Embankment pics based on the info within the camera frame(s) of the Q pics. There are links inferred by the sequence in which Q dropped the London pics. And links via filenames and, possibly, other evidence from which links can be deduced. These should not be ignored, natch. In the London dig we've focussed heavily on what is inside the Q pics - the pictorial evidence supplied in the drops. It is gud to observe that the pic of the Wilde Maus ride - taken in the Tower Plaza at Winter Wonderland Hyde Park - closely matches the available vids and pics taken during the Winter Wonderland season of 2013/2014.
Following vids include details to compare seasons 2012/2013, 2013/2014, 2014/2015, 2015/2016. These are ruffs put together in the process of producing a vid on the topic of dating the London Pics - one at-a-time, as a series, and as a whole collection. That broader vid is nearing completion. In meantime, below are some basics re Winter Wonderland.
Preliminary bits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSwd-SqDl-w
Details and markers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g8cSt6P94w
Eliminate 2015/2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VGfHsbrZfg
Eliminate 2014/2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6XU3I1OKA8&t=16s
And
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjyLbqp7kIE
Eliminate 2012/2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNBrjs4nz3Q
2013/2014 details in the plaza
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LejjZF8pZN8
View from above plaza and Wilde Maus ride
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJTmgEroses
Other scenes of the London Pics are also covered at the following two vid sites.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCn88ZwElo8aiY3sDag1MQPQ/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8qRMRmk-aKwyzo-6404NLA
The emphasis within the frames is on the ground cover. Yeh, the bag too. And in other London Pics the dark jacket, light trousers, and red toque can be found on a guy in the background. Look at pics of Corinthia Hotel and of the Red Bus and play where's waldo. Might not be the two individuals that were in the news at the time of the drops. Could be. But maybe not.
Yes, what is your take on the individual you circled? Look at the red bus pic and see if you can find a woman who might resemble a certain CIA director. Lots of speculation abounds. All pretty gud, too.
The last several posts on the lunar/tidal info are very interesting. There may be a fly in our soup, however, because all of the EMB pics, but for ROT3, and including LISA and LONDON, all of the set are interlinked in time by the shrouding on the rooftop behind Big Ben. That would place the bookends at very late SEP or early OCT 2013 and MAR 2014.
It seems to me that we are on to something precisely because it is difficult to reconcile the lunar/tidal info and these other bits of pictorial evidence within the frames.
Now, given that the OCT 2013-MAR2014 time range is a close match for the Red Bus and Piccadily pics, and given that the Winter Wonderland opening dates go from NOV 2013 to JAN 2014 and so fit well inside the range for the shroud on Westminster, it seems to me that we may have linked these three sets of London pics chronologically. Not a small thing.
On the other hand, there is some fudge room in the shroud time range - as just stated above. The fudge also applies to the Winter Wonderland set only so far as there event has a pre-opening period that covers the final touches made by the construction crew each year as well as a night or day for news media guests and, again, a short few days prior to the final takedown of the rides each year.
The Winter Wonderland time range is fairly tight but not as tight as the Red Bus pic which is based on the City's approval date for the change in bus stop and its sign which was officialized 31-OCT-2013; seems pretty rock solid; and then the closing bookend is based on the start of exterior construction on LSQ 'Communications House' and the shroud that was dropped over its facade on 23-MAR-2014. That's very solid, too. The related Piccadilly pics are little moar ambiguous. The pics were taken before the ticket kiosk or shack was put in place in JUL 2014; and the LG big screen ad board showed an LG G3 ad which would have first appeared around the time of the G3's launch in OCT 2014. Both of these bookends are much softer due to lack of sufficient details for these markers. What may werk against the mid-winter notion for Red Bus and Piccadily pics is the apparent lack of Christmas seasonal decorations or other indications of the holiday season. In fact, the pics do not seem very crowded with people and traffic.
The Corinthia Hotel pics are perhaps a mix of hard and soft bookends. All of the CH pics show the same bollard arrangement on the pedestrian islands or refuges on Northumberland. That arrangement changed after the fatal road accident. Almost certainly the temporary bollards were in place a few hours after LEO were on the scene. Don't have direct evidence but seems to be a normal procedure taken. So that is the hard bookend, 4-MAR-2014, based on Coroner's official report. The earlier bookend is softer because it is based on the bike hire docking station which is blue in the Q pics - not the red that appeared in APR 2014. When initially installed, there was a stall of bikes lined-up parrallel with Northumberland but this was gone by 4-AUG-2013, as per vid of a cycling event at that time. It left square marks on the sidewalk beside the kerb. Could have been removed earlier - got pictorial evidence of it still there in summer of 2012. So that would mean a soft 4-AUG/summer 2013 to a hard 4-MAR-2014.
Now, it is true that the EMBANKMENT pics seem closely related to the Corinthia Hotel pics, based on geography alone, for instance. These are also linked by the way in which 2015/2016 was ruled out via the construction of changes to the lanes and parking bays that occured in 2014/2015. That road work also changed the bridge-side lanes on Northumberland to the extent that the ban on a right-turn at the junction was enforced by a meridian that segregated the new bike-only lanes from car traffic and so all traffic became left-turning, which made room for the construction of a bike-only left-turning lane at the junction. The cars on the road in the Corinthia Hotel pics show cars lined up between the two car lanes which would be used by bikes too. These interlinks help only in elimination of 2014/2015 and 2015/2016. To narrow the time range further we'd need something else.
There's that blue Boris bike in LONDON and, maybe, also in ROT1. The blue scheme matches the docking station seen in the Corinthia Hotel pics, including ROT3. So pre-APR-2015 when the colour scheme was switched to red. And the Traf CAM pics show a van that moved from turning lane on Victoria Embankment to the kerbside lane on Northumberland. Not definitive but looks like a close vehicle match.
moar
continued
What else might inter-link the EMB pics with the Corinthia Hotel pics, IDK. Maybe the greenery, or diminish of it, of Whitehall Garden. There are leaves on the ground and fairly bare branches on the treetops. Falling leaves would make for a soft, but reliable, bookend. Seasonal cleanup of those fallen leaves might help make it moar firm.
Which brings to mind the empty motorcycle only parking space in the EMB pics. The parking there is free to cheap during daylight hours. And the limitation on the type of vehicles parked there is lifted during off-hours. Of course, that spot is narrow and near a junction so there would be no coaches parked there, although small cars could fit. This might be why there are no motorbikes in that parking space in the Q pic. But there could be another reason. That parking might have been suspended so that the trucks used for the cleaning up of fallen leaves could setup around Whitehall Gardens and vicinity. Have seen vids of the space being thusly used.
Well, that's a lengthy review that prvoides background but also has overshot the point I first intended to make regarding the discussion on the lunar/tidal info. It seems to me that we can rule out late summer and early spring, based on the above bookends. And given the discussion, it now seems that the tidal/lunar info is likely the key to tighten up the estimates for when these pics were taken. Of course, how precise we can be based on that pictorial evidence is what we are working to find out.
The lights out on the TATT could be explained away by the pending move to drydock. But whatabout the HISP, IDK. Seems reasonable to assume a common reason for both establishments and that points to closing time or opening time. The tidal/lunar evidence tends to affirm closing time. It may seem a bit circular as we started with the notion of lights out due to being closed and eventually learned about the moon's trajectory which made sense of the pictorial evidence independently of the original notion. Turns out that the moon position in the Q pics has done the real werk and affirms the notion of closing time. Valuable addition to the London Pic dig.
Will add that the ad boards on the handrails at HISP entrance do not appear prior to the 2013/2014 period. The 3 boards do not appear in summer 2013 vids/pics - nor earlier. That's a soft bookend that could allow for late summer/early fall 2013. The backside of 3 ad boards can be seen in a vid dated APR 2014. The faceside is clearly captured in SV pics from MAY-JUN-JUL 2014 - and these closely match Q's pics. The same 3 boards are seen very clearly in a drive-by vid that the poster indicated was taken in autumn of 2014. By the spring of 2015 those 3 boards had been replaced by 4 new ad boards. So for the ad boards, both bookends are soft. Direct pictorial evidence shows only that the ad boards matched Q pics after the winter of 2013/2014 so doe snot really help narrow the range in light of the other evidence which does a better job of it.
There is a detail that might help to narrowly date the EMB pics and that is the presence of a square shaped sign, white or greyish, that appears on the wall, not the handrail, parrallel with the ramp to the ganglplank of the HISP. This medium-sized sign appears in ROT1 only. And so far I have not found its likeness in open source vids/pics of the scene. Finding a match would likely narrow the range starkly, becAuse it seems to be so infrequently recorded. Does not look like an ad nor like a city sign. Maybe it is not a sign even though it looks flat and vertically secured.
Here is a comparison of that features the white sign on the wall near the entrance to the Hispaniiola's ramp. The closest match found in available SV images going back about two decades is a similarly sized sign on a floor stand that has been positioned near the entrance to the ramp during the ongoing construction of the Tideway project. It is an 'open' sign that may list hours of operation that are temporarily changed due to local street circumstances - re moving of material and such into and out of the construction project.
If so, then, perhaps the white sign in ROT1 served the same general purpose but applied to changes in the street due to an event that temporarily affected the entrance at the Hispaniola.
Speculation, of course, and very open to alternative notions.
https://youtu.be/529L70cbn1w
An example of an event that might change access to the HISP would have been the lifting of the gangplanks and the move of the TATT to drydock. But that would occur the following year during early JAN 2015. Other events, like a bike or foot race - annual street closings - or a NYE fireworks display on the Thames - yearly display at THE EYE shuts down regular traffic and restricts pedestrian traffic - would have significant if temporary affects on access to the HISP. Now, if this was a temp sign that listed hours during NYE, that would help explain the lack of pictorial evidence in SV imagery because those images on the EMB have been generated mostly during spring and summer months.
The plausibility of all that depends on this particular white sign in ROT1 being somehow tied to the HISP. Don't have direct evidence of that. All circumstantial based on an SV image that popped up in JUL 2019 and that sign is directly tied to the HISP. But does not appear in MAY 2019.
Did find a JAN 2018 SV image that showed two of these temporary floor stands that feature the open sign to the HISP. Reads, OPEN, a la carte, Main Deck, ---, ----, --—. The 4th line is in same dark colour as the previous lines above. The 5th and 6th are in red and may list a company or event. Will enhance and be back later.
The utility of info on the sign in ROT1 may prove to derive of a surrounding circumstance or event that prompted use of a temporary open sign either to feature something like a sponsored or hired catering service on the HISP or something like a seasonal offering such as deck seating during particularly pleasant weather in winter months, or somesuch. We know about the very rainy Christmas weather in 2013/2014 period. So if this sign indicated a break in the dismal, then, might help with lunar/tidal dig.
CORRECTION
>The earlier bookend is softer because it is based on the bike hire docking station which is blue in the Q pics - not the red that appeared in APR 2014.
APR 2015. That is when the blue Barclays sponsorship of the bike hire system was taken over in the field by red Santander. Colour scheme of bikes and info pedestals were changed over at that time and, in particular, at that location outside of the Corinthia Hotel.
APR 2015, not 2014 as stated in prev comment. Apologies.
CORRECTION
>The lights out on the TATT could be explained away by the pending move to drydock.
Guess I've done my impression of Joe Biden right there, kek. The move to drydock did not occur until 2015.
The Q pics were taken about a year earlier, as per the rooftop shroud behind Big Ben. Sorry if my mistake caused confusion.
HISP no longer in business. If there is something on there website or online presence that is useful, archive it.
Yeap, the SV 2018/2019 images show this short 'open' sign to read as follows.
UPPER DECK
OPEN
A LA CARTE
BAR DECK
DRINKS
WELCOME
ABOARD
And the logo of the stylized HISP profile.
Can discern no mention of special hours or whatnot. If this sign would appear only where it is needed to clarify the HISP is open when it might be either less accessible or generally thought to have closed - for inclement weather for example, then, this moar current version of the sign might have been preceded by a variation that appeared in ROT1.
Anons, while the London Pics have been a heavy focus in the UK breads, it is great to see moar and moar digs initiated and continued.
We have left no rock unturned in the landscape of these London Pics. The last nut to crack, I think, is the lunar/tidal info and how it can be most effectively applied not only to the ROT1 pic but to the EMB set its sits within and, of course, the broader collection of pics related in London and posts related to London/UK and FVEYS. The scope of the vid currently near completion remains the establishment of the date on which each pic was taken based on the pictorial evidence within the frames. Refinement of the time range is inevitable if that lunar/tidal info can be applied effectively. This sky event and the 'watch the water' event in combination may be the most significant marker the London Pics. PERSEVERE, Frens. Return to this as best you can.
The best I can offer at this time is a mention in the vid being produced. Want to leave an opening for moar, if the dig develops. Nothing precludes a sequel, kek, when we have exhausted our resources and/or ouselves.
Blessings all.
WWG1WGA
Will return to help on lunar simulation, fren. For now can say that the blue to red switch occured very quickly, maybe a week, for the Corinthia Hotel site. 15-APR plus maybe that week. Using recall from PR releases but pretty confident that a full week is moar than the actual. Unfortunately, prolly need to hedge inward rather than farther outward on this bookened.
And to add to your frustration, unintentionally, must remind that the tigther bookend is based on the 4-MAR-2014 accident, not the 15-APR-2015 blue to red swap at bike hire station. Apologies if my recent posts added confusion.
Windward, well, again prolly rough for your purposes, but MAR 2013 is outside the time range established via the rooftop shrouding behind Big Ben in all of the EMB pics. On the leeward side MAR 2014 leaves a fudge of about a month, sorry to say. The time range is late SEP/ early OCT 2013 to MAR 2014. Have hunted for pictorial evidence that tightens either bookend but no luck, yet. Was about to cut my losses but might have an opp to dig moar. Hard to promise at the moment.
I do think that noting that spring would help reconcile the tidal/lunar info with what we know of the Q pics, but there is moar room for fudge on the winward side which is early autumn 2013. Guess that March could be considered early spring in London, some years.
With you on that, Anon.
Freedom is not a gift from nor a privilege granted by govt. Protection of freedom is the duty of those who govern. That is the basis for the rule of law. Otherwise government becomes rule of men and free citizens are reduced to subjects of those who rule. All basic stuff built into the liberty enshrined within societal deference to law and order. Those with power need reminders every once and again.
As for this notion that public health authorities are over and above our freedoms, well, that's nonsense to begin with and dangerous when its logic is followed to its natural conclusions.
I think that a close analogy is the way HIV/AIDS played out in public policy through misinformation and government over-reach via public health authorities. Not knocking the science. That informs. Science does not dictate. It informs. It can do no other. Authorities, however, often desire to do much other - for better or for ill, best intentions or not. Hence the restraints of law and order. Push aside those restraints and free citizens will respond in kind - pushed far enough and that can over-stretch societal adherence to law and order. That is to say, if the politician has noticed a respons building, then, that is a message that it is government that has begun to over-stretch and to over-burden the goodwill of free citizens and their respect for the right use of authority.
To be clear, we are looking at a time range of about 5 months that straddles DEC 2013/ JAN 2014. Could go with late OCT 2013 winward and MAR 2014 in general, leeward. I've been thinking of this as autumn 2013 to late winter 2014 but you might consider MAR 2014 as an early spring. Haven't looked deeply into the weather during that month but I have seen plenty of pictorial evidence that the APRIL of 2014 was chilly enough, some days, that people dressed as for winter cold. Not deepest cold, naturally, but cold enough to match your previous comments about clothing.
There was consideration made for the falling of leaves, which appears to be evident in some of the Q pics. Prolly should get moar specific on that line of thinking, too. Could bear fruit and help with the tidal and lunar digs. The tree canopies on EMB and on Northumberland are pretty big markers.
Here is a tree pic on EMB, published MAY 2016 as per TIN EYE.
OCT tends to be the month of falling leaves along EMB and Northumberland. At least, the heaviest. There'd be leaves still falling in NOV and very likely some still on the sidewalks and streets, especially kerbside in NOV. Guess it depends on the weather that particular year, 2013. As for matching the particulars of the Q pics regarding the tree canopies, need moar digging. To my eye, looks like dead winter rather than an autumn nor spring transition.
There is always the possibility of contradictory evidence and here is an example.Pic of WHITEHALL Gardens, 4 DEC 2010.
Versus a good upward view of the largely leafless tree canopy at that park, 13 DEC 2014.
Gonna need a small collection of pics specifically for the 2013/2014 seasons at Whitehall Gardens and surrounds.
That vid looks like it was downloaded to this site's server. But, for now, here is a link.
https://youtu.be/XIbhJv-nhaE
Was preparing to drop the following deciphering here, rather than General, because of the direct link to the London Pics and GH. Well, got part way thru and might as well drop what I have so far. The GH stuff in short order - this for now is related to GH and that will become moar clear with later posts. Or other anons will get ahead of me, as per usual, and I can play catch-up. Kek. All good.
Brilliant find, Anon. EYE was down for 12 days in JAN 2014. What do the lights look like when down for maintenance? Need to make the comparison so that can use this info to include or to eliminate those days - with certainty. The tidal/lunar data might help confirm.
I think this could place a hole inside the time range rather than define a bookend, but let's find out for certain.
Yes, keep that in mind. At least one meaning is that the changes in the various London Pic scenes which were made made by 2015/2016 indicate that the Q pics were taken earlier.
Find the markers. [street/surroundings updates]
Q
With each pic just start with 2015/2016 and eliminate periods of time, starting with that particular season. This is how each pic has been dated, including the one at Bus Shelter 'S'. And the Q posts also suggest multiple meanings for shelter in the context of building a safe house. Just so happens that Canada House was under renno in the relevant time period. And a funnel was referred to in that context. Think of the funnel on the TATT as a major marker that eliminated 2015/2016. Think U1. Think Iran. NOIC House is on a different route but located next to Bus Shelter 'S' just like Canada House. And another FVEY membe, New Zealand, has its Embassy few metres down the road at corner of Haymarket and Cockspur just off the roundabout at Trafalgar and Northumberland. Interestingly, the New Zealand building was captured in the Q pics of the Corinthia Hotel. Both of these embassies are mid-way between the junction in the Q pics at Embankment and the location of the Red Bus pic at 'Communications House', the building gutted in 2013/2014.
That is a roundabout way for Q to guide our digs into these pics and so it is very likely that these updates will be 'Relevant' in multiple ways. Moar than just dating the events captured.
That said, there is a Q post that provided a timeline of events relevant to Spygate-Plus and at one point Q advised that timelines change. Also note that the 2015/2016 period is a marker relevant to the Winter/Spring during which the 'Black Box' pic was taken near THE SANCTUARY.
Eyes on ball, frens, as Anon said.
To clarify - in the vicinity of the London PICS there are two bus routes each of which have a Bus Shelter 'S'. These stops are at different locations, of course. One is at the door of NOIC House - IRANIAN - and the other is at the door of Canada House. The shelter at Canada House is just steps away from the New Zealand site. And that NZ site is in the background of the pics featuring Corinthia Hotel. See previous breads for the details and relevant pics/maps.
Along the way from the scene of the EMB and CH pics is a roundabout at TRAFALGAR SQUARE. When you look at the map of this area of London it is striking how it correlates with the 2013/2014 map of Winter Wonderland in Hyde Park. Have discussed this in previous breads.
Think of the key markers in the theme park as you look at a map of Westminster. The Eye is the GIANT OBSERVATION WHEEL. The Wilde Maus coaster ride is the Horse Guard Parade and its govt environs. The Zippo Circus behind the coaster ride is the Dept of DEFENSE/SCOTLAND YARD facilities. And Parliament Square correlates with the Tower Power Plaza - the tower being Westminster Palace, Big Ben. Further, there are two towers in the theme park behind or beside the person who took the photos in Winter Wonderland. These correlate with the two towers of the ABBEY near Bus Shelter S. Call this a sandmap of the field of battle in London depicted in these Q pics. Just my intuitive take.
Regarding the Winter Wonderland pics, consider that the person taking the photos was on the ground, in the crowd, and very close to the scene. Stood next to those wooden towers in the plaza between the BAVARIAN Great Hall and the Double Decker roundabout - which, by the way, correlates with the roundabout that links Northumberland and Haymarkert enroute to the scene of the Red Bus pic.
Might that person who took the photos be someone who was captured in other London pics but not in the WW pics? GH?
Vid of a deep cleaning that took place on THE EYE during 3 weeks in MAR 2013. At the time, the blue lights were used around Christmas but also throughout the winter.
However, in this vid less saturated lights are on display during the cleaning work. Makes sense that they'd use less intensely blue lights while they work on a white surface. Or just doing inspections and such.
If this is a gud enough indication to Anons, let me know. Looking for examples of regular maintenance during the January 2014 for a better comparison with ROT1.
Second vid made with the contractor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyW2J8_ARak
Checkout the views of the EMB tree cover during nights and days. This one better shows the less intensely blue lighting used during the werk.
This livestream from Park Plaza Hotel shows THE EYE 24 X 7. Guess won't see the next maintenance underway until JAN 2021, kek. But the not-open lighting is on display while it is held at a full stop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytPsiuXqcNY
Timelapse vid of EMB, including THE EYE, recorded 9-JUN-202, during lockdown. Stationary throughout. When the sky darkened the basic white lights came on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x7FHiOU_jg
Looks the same as the maintenance vid, pretty much. Not sure this is a good enuf comparison with ROT1, but if only the white lights are on during off-hours, then, THE EYE in ROT1 was either just about to closed down or was open for business till.
Will try to gt back on that tomorrow. Loads on the go. Some nitty gritty tech issues ontop of it all. Fighting the gud fight, fren, hang on while I make some time for it. Other anons may be on the case way ahead of me.
Let's follow your thinking.
Please state what you think Q said. Then, please show that Q actually did say that.
Not mindreaders here. Here is an example. Do you think that Q said that Dec 2016 is the date on which a London pic was taken? If that is not what you assert, then, please clarify. If this is what you assert, then, please show that Q actually said that about a London pic. Did you think all of the Q-dropped London pics were taken Dec 2016? If yes, then, please show how that applies to each of those pics. If not, then, please show which of the London pics, or which pic, the date Dec 2016 does apply as per what Q actually said.
We can then follow your thinking as you state clearly what you think.
Thanks.
How is the effort to date these pics at odds with the 'whole spygate narrative'? Please state the narrative, as you know it.
For example, do you understand Dec 2016 to be intrinsic to the 'whole spygate narrative? Why? Or why not?
Repair work on the rooftop of Westminster Palace has been on and off across several years. Shrouds or hoarding has appeared in different places over the rooftop at different times. The spot we are looking at, intensely, is the tower just behind Big Ben, the clock tower. This was shrouded differently across time during the year 2013 and into 2014. The closest match to the Q pics is the shroud arrangement between late SEPT / early OCT 2013 and MAR 2014.
The upcoming vid series will present this in depth. In past breads lots of still photos and vids were collected and examined carefully. There might have been mistakes made so it is very welcomed that Anons review those breads or other sources of vids/pics and compare with the EMB pics that Q has dropped. Research and come to your own conclusion. Share it here.
The most Spring-like possibility in this regard is the 2014 side of the 2013/2014 winter - MAR 2014. I think the trees would have been moar full in OCT-NOV and, depending on the weather that year, also in DEC. That there is not much on the ground in the Q pics suggests, strongly, that the the bulk of the leaves had already fallen and the City road crews had already raked the gardens and sweapt the sidewalks and the streets. And bagged it all to take away. This may also be why there are no motorbikes occupying the solo motorbike parking space near the junction at corner of Northumberland. Parking might have been suspended so that work crews would have space to park their work vehicles. Might be wrong on that, IDK until have direct pictorial evidence.
The lack of leaves in the trees and the lack of loads of leaves on the ground AND THE LACK OF BAGS OF LEAVES PILED UP, well, that leaves us with a hint of the time of year. The key will be to reconcile the leaf scenario with the particular weather conditions that year, 2013/2014. DEC was very stormy and that proll blew the last remaining leaves off the biggest trees. Might have been premature, or moar severe, than typical, IDK.
WWG1WGA
Kek, it is not 'my' narrative, Anon. Consider what is your narrative and compare that with what Q has actually said. Explain your thinking on what Q said and how that fits the narrative you think is somehow challenged by the dating of the pics here. I would genuinely like to read what you are concerned about.
>>10979360, >>10978399, >>10978431
The contractor hired a recording company to make that vid. Here is the description at their YT post.
Upper Cut Productions was approached in March 2013 by Karcher and Shine PR to film and photograph their latest project - cleaning the London Eye.
It took 3 weeks to clean 13 years of grease, dirt and traffic film off the 32 capsules and center hub of the structure using Karcher's professional heavy duty cleaning equipment. Most of the work took place between the hours of 9pm and 5am, whilst the London landmark was closed to the public.
Upper Cut Productions was chosen for the project based on its reputation for specialist filming equipment and techniques. The imagery has been used across various media including The Daily Mail, ITN, CNN, ITV News and The Daily Telegraph.
—-
Takeaways. The vid company was approached in MARCH. So they'd need time to schedule and organize themselves for the field work which may have taken place partially in APRIL 2014 and even MAY 2014.
Need to dig into the actual dates THE EYE was closed in 2014. This was not the regular maintenance. It was a deep cleaning. Not done for the previous 13 years and prolly not done since - or maybe has been very recently during the lockdown. Checkout the timelapse posted a bit upbread. Looks like the wheel turned in both directions as if being positioned just so.
Anons, it is always wise to verify. Please help dig on the deep cleansing and see what we can come up with.
> there are some late April and May 2013 dates that work in simulation for low altitudes around 13 degrees. See CM 2.0 discussion above. A match for bearing and low altitude that occurs late at night, an hour from a very high tide matching what both ROT1 and LMI6 depict. They are my current best choice.
I hear you, fren, and the difficulty in reconciling the pictorial evidence with the lunar is thorny for sure. YES, 'the moon altitudes for Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb are too high', that does appear to be the case. We are plugging away a bit outside of our areas of expertise and comfort but your assessment is reasonable, in my opinion.
Not ready yet to move the time range simply because of the direct evidence available regarding the rooftop of Westminster. That reconciled well with other evidence from within the frames.
However.
Let's step back, as you suggested, and reconsider that direct evidence. Don't like to retrace steps that were carefully taken, but the knot we are struggling with is where it is and so we must go there.
Can we get a hyperlink to the bread in which pics and evidence was discussed previously? Would facillitate our efforts on this.
>Shine PR
As I said, verify. According to the account at the link below, the cleaning work was done in MARCH 2014. But this still leaves open possiblity it lasted into APRIL 2014.
https://vimeo.com/130966398
Karcher and Shine PR were looking for a way to deliver an iconic PR stunt by cleaning a major London Landmark. Karcher UK have spent 10 years looking for an iconic monument in London to clean as they have with monuments like Mount Rushmore and the Statue of Liberty all over the world.
Shine PR and Karcher approached CURB with a simple brief of solving the challenge of finding an amazing piece of London to clean using their world famous power washing equipment. CURB worked very closely with the Karcher team to source and secure permissions on both the London Eye and Tate Britain gallery. Following extensive testing, operation planning and safety checks, the Karcher team cleaned the entire London Eye in March 2013.
Here is a gud place to start a review of the rooftop repairs used to date the EMB pics. A vid that includes snippets from a series of documentaries produced for the UK Parliament.
Features J tower which may or may not be the spire under the hoarding or shroud that is in the Q pic. It serves as it is representative of the type of problem the shroud and scaffolding were erected to deal with. The doc was released and posted NOV 2013. Its various shots of the rooftop pre-date that release, natch.
https://youtu.be/bzykxJDPxtU
ROOF REPAIRS WESTMINSTER
JUL 2013 - early version of shroud at the spot at issue.
https://youtu.be/uV-Ve301XV4
OCT 2013
https://youtu.be/Kt8bFBhJJAE
DEC 2013
https://youtu.be/g5Xw3ym5SSo
NYE 2013/2014
https://youtu.be/rvfsvfG9GfI
JAN 2014
https://youtu.be/LVD7xmwComc
FEB 2014
https://youtu.be/lYIwqlyoz-8
MAR 2014
https://youtu.be/FZaWhxTcq5Y
APRIL 2014
https://youtu.be/kykynNl2F7U
Here is a vid of LisaMI6 with a close-up of the shroud on rooftop of Westminster.
https://youtu.be/WLIkiqwZ_3Y
BAKER
>>10981870
^^^
This talk of promoting violence is way out of bounds and looks like attempt to poison the well.
Thanks Anon for the correction. Welcomed.
LG G2 ad appeared in Q's Piccadilly pic. G2 was released in UK 1-OCT-2013 altho released earlier in other places. G2 ad prolly started to appear on the LG light board shortly after the UK release. Could have been on display on release in other places. Without direct evidence, this is a fairly soft marker for the earliest that the Piccadilly pic was taken.
The red bus pic showed a new bus stop sign that was approved by City on 31-OCT-2013. This sign appeared in Q's red bus pic. On or around that date would have been earliest that pic was taken.
So independently the evidence established OCT-2013 as the month before which the Q pics were NOT taken; or, put another way, the earliest by which these pics were taken. Piccadilly possibly earlier than red bus by few weeks.
The G2 ad showed in open source vid in DEC 2013 and SV images in MAY 2014, for two very clear examples. In those examples, the shroud on Com House is also evident. This overlap helped connect to two scenes in time and reinforced significance of geographic proximity.
It also confirmed the general time range for each Q scene. LG G3 launched in 29-MAY-2014 in UK and available 1-JUL-2014 in UK, altho earlier on both counts in other places. The G3 ad would have been on LG board near Piccadilly shortly on or around that time. Presumably that is the soft bookend marking the latest that the Q pic was taken. That is made moar firm by the appearance of a ticket kiosk or shack in Piccadilly Circus in SV images and other pictorial sources in JUL 2014. The shack did not show in Q's Piccadilly pics altho the exact location of the shack is well within camera frame. So the shack, not the ad, provided the bookend date.
Meanwhile red bus pic was taken BEFORE the shroud was dropped over facade of Com House. The day it was dropped, 23-MAR-2014, was documented in stock photos and news. Prep around the site was prolly undertaken earlier. None of that showed in the red bus pic. This is one of the firmest BEFORE bookends we have.
Lack of direct evidence to connect the two scenes within a given time range, we have circumstantial evidence that the Q pics are linked in time and place. Each scene is independently dated as per above. Both eliminated winters of 2012/2013 and 2014/2015 (and later).
Together, if they shared bookends, the range would have been NOV-2013 to 23-MAR 2014.
Moar evidence may be dug-up, but for available evidence established a 5-month interval during which red bus and Piccadilly pics could have been taken close to the same time of month/week/day. Other evidence might seperate the scenes by hours/days/weeks or even months.
Likewise, the connection between either of these two scenes and other London Q pics has not been established via pictorial evidence within camera frame. Yes, it can be plausible to connect these via the sequence by which Q dropped them on the board or by themes or by ID of individuals in the pics and so forth.
Sometimes conjecture leads to new observations and evidence that can be tested. Sometimes not possible to test and so might be of less value. Sometimes a working hypothesis moves the fact-finding forward as in the possiblity that the pics are linked by this or that missing piece of the puzzle.
If we go down the route of assuming shared bookends across the different scenes of London pics, that will help to narrow the time range. Q wrote of 'Timeframe' and 'time guide' and 'timeline'. That suggests a moar broad view that just might encompass all pics within a shared time range.
Please note that range is not the same as guide nor Timeframe. It may be a useful concept, range, in establishing bookends for dates of pics here. But it is a bit removed from what Q actually said in posts. I've used range throughout with this distinction.
Further, a range is an interval. A timeline is a sequence. A guide is a set of directions/instructions. Timeframe is a repeatable interval such as a season, like winter, or an annual event, or somesuch. Now that has been my own usage. Mileage might vary for other anons.
In sum, myself, don't think the Piccadilly and red bus pics weigh heavily in determining bookends for EMB pics. But perhaps more apt for comparison with the daylight CH pic. And, then, in a sort of reverse engineering, that might circle back to dating EMB pics via lunar/tidal info. It is possible and so might be worth exploring in a sort of IF-THEN process of discovery. IMHO.
WWG1WGA
Double meanings possible.
Lisa is a name that means, in some traditions, OATH OF GOD.
The Q posts in response to Anon's info pic on Page did refer to 1. When does a bird sing, and 2. Keep your promise. Related posts refered to UK's problem and to FVEY and to UK SIS.
The pic of the TATT, taken from the footbridge, was named, LisaMI6. So possible meaning was a message addressed to MI6 or to members within it to keep a promise that was made. The possible context was declassification.
Another possibility, altho perhaps moar fanciful, would infer connexion with the Winter Wonderland pics.
LisaMI6 = LISA MI6 = USA MI6.
In WW pic with WILDE MAUS coaster ride in background, the ride signage is partially lit. The part unlit = US.
MI6 could be a veiled reference to the 6 valued targets Q pointed at in the EMB pic which showed encircled pedestrian group crossing junction. Encircled can have symbolic meaning, also.
Think game theory. You are a member of the six targets. Or are you? Maybe you counted five, including yourself. Maybe you counted six, excluding yourself. Might stir doubts among the targets = am I six?
Q did ask about deciphering a London pic/post, in one of the London related posts.
>the vid was captured from down on the street level from Victoria Embankment, I think near the TATTERSHALL CASTLE. Please correct me on this if I an wrong, but that position is hundreds of feet away from the Q Traffic Cam. The CM vid above is still our best comparison at this time. However, the vid was taken around 7:53pm and our Q Traffic cam ROT1 is taken during what appears "after hours" for both restauramt ships.
Here are pics that may help confirm location, within say 20-30 ft, location in CM vid.
ESTIMATED DISTANCE BETWEEN BRIDGE AND FIRST SITING OF MOON IN EYE IS 0.1 MILES OR ABOUT 250FT.
Did you use that location or another? Perhaps confirm, firm-up, bearing from vid with which you'd compare confirmed bearing from EMB pic. Maybe multiple locations/bearings will strengthen the estimating that is necessary here.
By way of example, howzabout bearing from location closer to WESTMINSTER as sited through the two trees in screencap of CM vid.
These trees are common across the years in this context at that location. Is it not possible to triangulate the target - moon - in this manner? Thus derive the lunar specifics for the comparison source.
Simulation of the same based on EMB pics would require use of same vantage elevation at location down the street near WESTMINSTER, such as the trees. Google Earth might be useful in that regard. Or can we use same methods in play already?
These are only suggestions. Much respect. MUCH ENCOURAGEMENT.
ALL SPEED ANONS
Dating the pics has been ongoing for months, Anon. Please review the previous breads as best you can. The vids that have been produced are ruffs for a series. The ruffs are all available online.
The narrative - was that you, Anon, asking if Q was a fraud by way of the dating of these pics?
> whatever timeframe you think you have gathered, you are going to have to answer to me. I am at 151.5 degrees SSE and approximately 13 or so degrees in elevation. If you can't align with me at that bearing, then all your EMB theory is wasted.
The Timeframe is not the same as the time range, Anon, as explained in earlier post in this bread. The range has bookends - a beginning and an end - and the Timeframe may well be a small interval within it but which applies across the years. Hence the comparisons being made across the years to determine the date pics taken. Not really a theory but a structure of analyzing pictorial evidence in many situations.
The time range is currently an interval of 5 months and excludes the other 7 months. Reconcling the evidence can be difficult but can be done. However, if you think the evidence forces an EMB pic to be dated in, say, APR or MAY 2014, then, the onus is on you to make that force plausible or even definitive. Double check the available pictorial evidence and move the bookend according to what is discovered based on, say, the rooftop werk. Or another tracked marker.
Not wedded to the time range. Wedded to the available evidence. Conclusions are drawn from that, not from theories.
TY Anon
WWG1WGA
Actually, want all the evidence on the table, Anon, for all to check out. Not about me, really. Evidence. Have emphasized this all along, Fren. As have others.
Here are some screencaps from the Parliament doc. These show the shroud in question during the summer and into SEP 2013. The first is a long range view from behind Big Ben. In this can make out the distinctive scaffolding levels which goes above the top of the spier. That spier is visible in the Q pic. The second screencap shows the same spier, given its location displayed in the vid, in a slightly different stage of scaffolding - the very top appears to have been removed. The third screencap shows a moar close view, from the ground, and the scaffolding is again at a different stage - moar coming down, not quite a match for the Q pics as it appears too narrow and still too tall - moar like the summer vids/pics available of the scene.
The vid was published NOV 2013. Much of the footage appears to have been shot in warm weather. Make of that what you will - summer or early autumn. Winter may be a stretch. Trees are full of leaves.
Now, look for the April evidence and compare with the Q pics of EMB. Hard to match outside of the time range described earlier. Very hard. But maybe there is missing evidence that pushes the bookend into APR 2014. Does not look like the scaffold was rebuilt that spring. Werk moved to other parts of the rooftop.
This vid was posted 8-APR-2014, meaning it was shot before that date, natch. Pushes the bookend to first week of APR 2014 at the earliest. This a gud example but there are other vids/pics of APR 2014 that do not move the bookend earlier.
https://youtu.be/kykynNl2F7U
Vid of shroud in its winter form, slightly different from the taller and narrow form of previous summer.
https://youtu.be/dyHcSfns0M8
Posted 20 MAR 2014.Cand see another spire which is not yet scaffolded. This may well be the J in the Parliament doc, rather than the one closer to Big Ben, as the doc was shot while J was not scaffolded but the one we are fosused on was scaffolded in the doc.
The 4-MAR-2014 bookend for all the CH pics, including ROT3, is based on the date of the fatality as reported by Coroner. Is it within the realm of broad possibility that the authorities left the bollards alone - no temp frame versions added - during days or weeks in the aftermath of that road accident? Maybe there is fudge room there?
I doubt there is moar than a day or two after 4-MAR-2014, if any. Is there direct pictorial evidence of temporary bollard frames, or other changes, in the immediate aftermath of the fatality? No. Make of it what you will. How far would you need to force the bookend to fit the lunar calculations?
Checkout all of the CH pics. Are not the bollards and islands unchanged from one to the other? I suppose ROT3 would be the focus for bookending the EMB pics because it too was taken with the traffic cam. Look and tell us what you think the evidence showed within the camera frame. Any room for differences between this and the other CH pics?
What if ROT3 is not immediately linked in time to the other traf cam pics? Can you show that to be the case? If yes, then, the bollard bookend does not apply to the other EMB pics.
As for the rooftop shroud, it is the same across the EMB pics. But look again and see if you can detect differences in the shroud or some other marker that distinguishes the pics such that the bookend is forced farther out. I do not see it, but maybe you can find it
Keep in mind that ROT1 is the only pic with the moon and so maybe it can be distinguished such that its dating is different than the other EMB pics. It is not evident to my eyes. Can you see something different?
These are the ways to re-examine the evidence, I think. Perhaps you can come up with moar ways such that moar fudge room is discovered to fit in the results of lunar calculations.
From one hard digger to another, much respect, fren, loads. Hard slogging all the way, it has been for us.
G'night.
Vid of scaffold in its winter form during night.
https://youtu.be/Kt8bFBhJJAE
Posted 20 OCT 2013.
The transition from the summer to the winter form of shroud occurred between this date and late summer/SEPT. Can you find fudge room there? As described previously, this is a soft bookend due to lack of direct evidence.
If we suppose that this vid was taken the same day it was posted while the SEP vid posted previously was taken same day it was posted, then, the transition occured between 8-SEP and 20-OCT 2013. When might that have been completed? In this way might have nearly a full month of fudge room in which to push the bookend back in time. Posted dates and taken on dates are not always so closely bound as even a month, so this may be somewhat plausible.
In the SEP vid you also have a view of tree coverage for comparison with Q pics. And, for the sake of interest, a good view of all three bollard positions near CH.
Prior to the accident, according to Coroner report, two of the three traffic bollards were missing. These were installed as permanent hoop-style fixtures embedded in the pavement. A motorcyclist collided with the one remaining hooped bollard and the impact did all lethal damage to him.
The victim's sister and friends placed an improvised memorial at that bollard and continued to do so, renewing it, for a long time. This is evident in SV imagers and other sourced pics and vids.
After the road accident, temproary bollards were introduced. These were frame-type and stood either on the traffic islands or just in front on the road. These were replaced by rebound type bollards, single-legged, at all three positions in that appear in Q's CH pics.
Now, keep in mind that this scene included other markers, such as the bike hire docking station. In APRIL 2015 the blue colour scheme of the docking station was replaced with a red scheme and a different sponsor. That was the year after the Q pics.
That line of stalls was evident in various online sourced images. See the embedded vid at mark 1min 07secs abd the attached pic from APR 2011.
https://youtu.be/BaHZB91HsK4
Pic related, APR 2011.
SV images from MAY 2012 show this linen of stalls filled with the blue hire bikes of that time. You might recall that Q confirmed the location of the traffic camera that took some of the EMB pics. In that confirmation, Q reposted the screencap that an Anon had captured from SV MAY 2012. This prolly was intentional - to draw attention to a marker that changed in this scene. In effect, that provided an initial bookend - the Q pics had been taken after MAY 2012.
See Q 2800, pic related.
That line of bike stalls at the kerbisde had been removed by the time the Q pics were taken. Compare the confirmation Q post with the Q's CH pics. Look for marks, or scars, left on the sidewalk at the curb where the stalls had been embedded. This was evident in MAY 2014 SV images and other sources such as the following vid posted early JUNE 2014.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHfQQb7Rz0o&feature=youtu.be
Pic related, JUN 2014.
Run that vid in slo-mo or frame-by-frame and catch the temporary frame bollards at the traffic islands starting at about mark 1min 27secs. Look for the memorial at about mark 1min 32secs.
See my next post and review the 2 infographics that raised the question, 'Whose memorial was this?', and which also sum-up the pictorial evidence regarding the bike hire docking station and these traffic bollards and that memorial.
The line of bike stalls had been removed by at least 4 APR 2013, as can be seen in the following vid of a road race starting at about mark 1min 15secs.
https://youtu.be/GVonWwIPjI8
Pic related, APR 2013.
Also this vid captured the 3 bollard positions. The first was occupied by a two-legged hoop style bollard, covered by a white sandbag that served to hold in place an additional temporary frame type sign. The 2nd was missing and in its place stood a frame and sandbag. These are the types of frames that would appear after the fatal accident the next year on 4 MAR 2014. The third position was occupied, in APR 2013, by the hooped bollard into which the victim had collided. Compare the vid with the SV images of MAY 2014 and note the slight difference in stance - prolly due to the collision - but also note the photo that was wrapped around this bollard later as part of the makeshift memorial.
See next post.
Spring 2013 is too early, Anon. The bookends to bring in tighter are currently
-
late SEP/ early OCT 2013
-
late MAR / early APR 2014
Focus efforts there to narrow the time range. Pictorial evidence on either side may be useful, also, to augment the evidence already posted in this and previous breads.
The summer form of the scaffolding has been documented, likewise, but if you find moar pics or vids that show the changes to the scaffolding from first appearance in summer 2013 to its eventual removal by Spring 2014, please add them to the growing collection.
TY Anon
Infographics on BOLLARDS and BIKE HIRE DOCKING STATION. See 3 pics attached.
Fatal motorbike accident occurred morning of 5-MAR-2014. Two assumptions, highly plausible, are open to challenge by anons searching for pictorial and related evidence regarding the traffic bollards.
-
That shortly after the accident, if not immediately after, the temporary frame type bollards were put in place at the traffic islands and remained there until replaced by permanent rebound type bollards.
Note that the memorial reappeared after the permanent bollards were in place.
-
That before the road accident, the bollard positions appeared pretty much as they did in the spring of 2013, which is pretty much the way they appeared in 2012 also.
For previous detailed discussions of these infographics and related parts of the dig, see previous breads. For anons digging on this, it will help your efforts to review ground covered. But all eyes on are welcomed. Anons with fresh eyes and questioning eyes have always shown invaluable on such digs.
APR 2011, bike hire docking station kerbside along Northumberland Ave, at Junction.
https://youtu.be/BaHZB91HsK4
4 APR 2013, bike dockign station gone, pre-accident bollard positions.
https://youtu.be/GVonWwIPjI8
Very noice, Anon. Concur with your reasoning.
The embed vid here shows the parking zone set aside for motorcyles near the Junction of Northumberland and Victoria Embankment in summer of 2014. This would be a few months after the Q pics. The parking space was evident prior to the winter of 2013/2014. However, in Q's pics, the space is not occupied by motorbikes. As you noted, there are yellow signs attached to posts and street signs in the EMB pics.
https://youtu.be/guvVJavZYG0
These are typical of notices that the normal parking is suspended, temporarily, and for resons like the road events - bike and foot races that happen annually are good examples - but also for routine things road werk and such.
Next post shows an example of the motorcycle space being used in that way.
This embed vid shows the motorcycle parking space used by City work crews. Look for the kerbside road werk sign at Horse Guards Ave - at the bike hire docking station on corner - which gives advanced warning of the werk related to Whitehall Gardens between that spot and the junction with Northumberland.
Next keep eye out for other indications along the way to the motorcycle parking space that is occupied by City crews, including a road and pavement sweeper.
https://youtu.be/tfZUCoaT29o
These vids of the EMB are useful for other purposes than looksee at bollards and parking spaces and docking stations. Note the configuration of the lanes and compare against 2014/2015 and later. Compare the trees from different seasons, too. Look for the TATT'S funnel and look for the security cam above the footbridge. There are other details that help in analysis of LisaMi6, such as the position of lamp posts and of kerbside benches. Even the traffic lights at the junction's pedestrian crossing is helpful in orientating one within the scene of Q's pics.
All anons are encouraged to walk, bike, drive through the EMB pics via vids like this. Review previous breads and the vids there. This dig has been very organic and all eyes are very much welcomed.
Yes, does it not bring to mind the approach to a finish line at the end of a long race? Glad you mentined it. Try viewing the vids in reverse direction through the EMB scene. Retracing steps.
Regarding the marathon, recall that Lisa Page listed the Boston Marathon bombing as pivotal in her career path. That had occured the week or so before the London Marathon. She looks to me like someone who might have ran long distance, if not competitively, then, perhaps, as an amature marathoner. Got no evidence. Just an impression from the manner in which she moves and walks.
>the building lights seen on the Milbank building in all the Embankment pics are of the same configuration when you enhance the photos.
Fine reasoning there, Anon. Concur that Milibank links all of the EMB pics, save ROT3 which could be linked thru other details. It, like the rooftop shroud, unites the handheld cam and traffic cam pics of the junction.
If there is a similarly staged scaffold on the rooftop, in that same position, I have not seen it - yet. Have examined so many pics and vids that may have missed something due to the sheer volume of images passing before the eyes. So, yes, your line of reasoning does suggest a closer look for summer scaffolding that may indicate a progression. That progression may have begun with a moar squarish form, leaving the top of spire above it, but, again, this runs agains the way scaffolds have been erected on Westminster - in its piecemeal fashion.
Yet definitive pictorial evidence is lacking, so far, and there may be moar eyes on to help broaden the time range back to the spring of 2013. In earlier post I said the best place to look to move the bookends was in the early spring of 2014, but having reviewed lunar info that seems a bit like shoehorning a size 13 into a size 9 shoe.
Your reasons to think Spring are very gud, in my view. Just wish that I had viewed what you are looking for, fren.
As your analysis seems to me to be very significant, I will do moar than just leave a placeholder in the upcoming vid series. Will hold off a bit to see if we find the strong evidence to push back the bookend far enough to align with the moon evidence. And will try to find time to help with that search. Your persistence is respected, Anon.
WWG1WGA
That vid showed the motorcycle parking space occupied by a few bikes. That detail does not match Q pics. Also, for comparison, the EMB pics are in dark of night, while this vid is in broad daylight altho the flow vehicular traffic and the parked cars/coaches provides a gud Q match. No kerbside bike docking, yes, gud match. Lack of perm island bollards, yes, and fits the info on road accident there re temp frame bollards.
Other details for comparison with Q?
The vid was posted on 1-JUN-2014. That date was a SUNDAY. Now, certainly, could have been posted day or days or moar after taken.
Time of year - quite possibly MAY 2014. So while the timeframe is a good fit, the time range may not be so gud. Time of day, no, but road activity, yes, gud match. Motorcycle parking, no, but other parking, yes, gud match.
Vid includes vu of motorcylce parking.
https://youtu.be/O6LTLi2luxk
Driver turned right off Northumberland and onto Embankment and showed the empty motorcycle parking space at the corner. No parking shown right through to Horse Guard Ave and the blue bike hire docking station there. This covered the street view in EMB pics pretty nicely. Gud to use as comparison of lanes with Q and with 2014/2015, 2015/2016, and later.
Light traffic and light parking.
Posted 15 JUN 2012. That was a Monday. Possibly recorded day before, Sunday, hence the empty street. Showed spire behind Big Ben. Also featured yellow signs at parking spaces. Summer tree coverage. Overcast, daytime.
https://youtu.be/c8H5MTBZ46I
Vid is a bit rough, prolly battery was overheated, but lots of features recorded on EMB. Vu of the junction, HISP entrance, parking and the configuration of lanes in spring of 2012 before Olympics that summer - likely given the rails at junction. Of interest to some might be the bus stand at which The Original Tour open top bus would have picked up and dropped off passengers. The bus stop sign is a fair match in that regard with the sign that appeared in Q's red bus pic near Piccadilly. The EMB was/is on that route still in 2013/2014 which circled back around Coventry/Whitcomb corner.
AND VIEW OF SPIRE UNDER SCAFFOLDING BEHIND BIG BEN. This is clearly an early stage of the werk that was later done on that spire in 2013/2014. It was taken down, completely, between then and the summer of 2013. The version in this vid is a wider box than the scaffolding of summer 2013 and even the that of the winter of 2013. Point of reference, yes. Not a Q match but useful.
Vid with night vus of the EMB scene.
https://youtu.be/6hD40ofKqMc
At very start showed Big Ben and what looks like the shroud seen in previously posted pic.
This vid was posted 13 NOV 2012. Check treecover. Low res but could be a Q match.
London EMB treecover in OCTOBER.
https://youtu.be/DqKgPfI7Zf8
Walk thru Whitehall Gardens from HORSE GUARD to NORTHUMBERAND. Exit at bike docking station near Corinthia Hotel. Cross the street there. Note bollards are missing again.
Posted in 2019 and info states recorded on 16 OCT. Gud to compare and to confirm basic timeframe - winter months - but many changes in street and surroundings so can not match Q on time range, natch. Note tree cover could be a fair Q matrch.
Vid of Whitehall Gardens in late autumn.
https://youtu.be/J41NogwJTvM
Timeframe is annual falling leaves, and collection/cleanup in the garden. Note the piles of bags. This might be the sort of werk done by city crews which, in turn, might explain the empty motorcycle parking space in Q pic. Or not. This is a herky-jerky recording from 2007. Posted to YT NOV 2007.
Vid treecover in JAN, dead of winter.
https://youtu.be/q8m8Mbz5yhY
Not same side of the bridge as Q pics but same type of trees. Point of reference.
EMB vid spring time.
https://youtu.be/A5dU-zIhXi8
Treecover point of reference. Jackets. View from footbridge, posted 16 MAY 2016.
EMB vid, treecover.
https://youtu.be/yhUvzCQfSOc
Point of reference, timeline spring, posted 9 MAY 2012, filmed 'MAY 2012'.
Treecover, EMB scene.
https://youtu.be/kWbzKH6LczA
Point of reference, recorded on 11 OCT 2011.
Treecover EMB, late OCT.
https://youtu.be/5rovUakpzM0
Recorded 29 OCT 2017 and posted 3 NOV 2017.
Timeframe - autumn, trees still full of yellow and green leaves, Moar rooftop scaffolding on Westminster.
EMB treecover and other features, DEC
https://youtu.be/5rovUakpzM0
Lots of points of referenc for comparison with Q pics and open source images. Twilight. Record 8 DEC 2012.
EMB REFERENCES.
Walk thru Whitehall Gardens and stand at pedestrian crossing at Northumberland under bridge.FEB 2020.
https://youtu.be/y_mpMMf_G0k
TIPPY TOP, Anon.
Pics dated 17 DEC 2013.
EXCELLENT poins of reference based on the northside of bridge, immediate vicinity of Q pic of pedestrian crossing.
Sauce, fren? And, as always on these digs, got moar? Kek. TYVM.
EMB REFERENCES
Not first time posted here in UK breads but worth another look as provides many reference points for recording made at night in winter, posted 8 NOV 2014 which is before the street lanes were reconstructed and before TATT was moved, but after removal of rooftop scaffolding on spire behind Big Ben.
https://youtu.be/8qdy5xzO28g
To me, this vid is good match for the timeframe of Q EMB pics. Not a match for the time range, natch.
Cheers.
Screencap from same vid.
The scaffolding appears to be a closer match to the summer form than the winter form. Not a match as the top of spire is covered. Resembles the views seen in the doc produced by PARLIAMENT re repairs to roof posted upbread.
EMBANKMENT screencap from vid that showed the new lanes. Began around the Golden Eagle monument and continued past Big Ben. Showed moar rooftop scaffolding being placed, prior to shrouding, summer 2018. Goes to show that loads and loads of rooftop repairs have been undertaken over the past decade or so. Moar extensive moar recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcOA2PTSHqU
By the way, that vid showed there is a route a driver can take, on the new lanes, that carries him from Hungerford Bridge around Parliament Square and back again on Embankment and under Hungerford Bridge.
Nothing seemed to have been stopping a driver from taking similair route prior to the change in lanes in, say, 2013/2014. Circuitous but looked fairly short and simple.
>March/April 2014 due to traffic bollard issue
The bollard evidence begins with the date of the fatal accident, morning of 5-MAR-2014, and this leads to two working assumptions, both plausible, described upbread. But there is no direct pictorial evidence to firmly establish that the tempoary frame bollards were in place before these appeared in SV images some time during MAY 2014.
While that might leave fudge room, and plenty of it, it is tempered by those fairly plausible assumptions each of which can be tested. There are other markers in the Q pics that show the traffic islands at CH. Treecover, traffic flow, clothing worn, perceived time of day/night.
Also there is the question of links between the EMB and CH pics. ROT3 may be of a piece with ROT1 and ROT2 but that link has not be solidified based on pictorial evidence within the camera frame. Circumstantial only, so far. Even the blue Boris bike is not direct evidence but its appearance in LONDON, and LONDON's links to ROT1, tethered the EMB pics to the APR 2015 switch from blue to red bike hires at CH. That bit of direct evidence can do no moar than that but there may be other links in the details that connect between EMB and CH pics. Just need to find and verify.
Likewise for links across the CH pics. The 2 out 3 bollard detail is common in the CH pics and served as such a link, however, here we are testing the bookend that is based on these very bollard/island details. So perhaps other links within the pics may be discovered that distinguishes at least one CH pic such that it has a plausible bookend farther out than the others. IDK.
All that aside, and pending pictorial evidence that directly links EMB and CH, and directly links across CH PICS, what are we left with to date the pics that feature the rooftop scaffolding and shroud?
Thusfar we have direct pictorial evidence of at least three forms in which that scaffold appeared. The first is that seen in APR 2013. While that evidence does not show a Q match, it is, as you have noted, a sign there may be a shrouded form that plausibly matches. That would push the 'not before' bookend.
The second form is that seen in pictorial evidence during the summer months and which covered the top of the spier. Might it have transitioned to the winter form in one fell swoop - say during a few days? Seems likely given the werk at that part of the rooftop continued even if interupted briefly as per the Parliament vid and screencaps on the state of disrepair ontop Westminster.
The third form is that which is evident in late SEP/ early OCT 2013 and through to at least MAR 2014. And this is where the 'not after' bookend may be considered fairly soft. How soft? Depends on those pesky details that need to align with details that would link EMB pics with the CH pics, for one thing. And that, for now, would return to consideration of the bollards and those other markers discussed above.
The pictorial evidence for the winter scaffold is soft to the extent that we have dates for the posting of YT vids and from those dates we have possible bookends. These could move inward, rather than outward, depending on assumptions about the proximity to posting the pics were taken. So, for example, we have very gud direct vid evidence that the winter form was removed by at least one vid's posted date of 8 APR 2014. And, as present upbread, there is direct pictorial evidence for presence of the winter form to about mid MAR 2014. Where that bookend would fall wold depend, again, on assumptions about date taken vs date posted. On this basis, evidence inside the camera frame could push the 'not after' bookend to, say, 7 APR 2014, the day before the vid evidence was posted showing the scaffold gone.
As you said, Anon, the evidence is drawing us closer to a very firm time range for the EMB pics and for the CH pics, seperately, but also, if links are solidified, for both sets of pics.
In sum, case can be made from pictorial evidence that the time range is late SEP 2013 to 7-APR-2014. A case might be developed, with new evidence, for Spring 2013.
From what I've seen of treecover, the Q pics could have been taken in dead of winter. The elevation of the vantage point for these pics is such that the view may show moar leaf coverage than a view from street level. So consider proximity to this or that tree in the Q pics. This allows for a moar isolated consideration. To my eye these pics are not Spring scenes. On the other hand, treecover across the years as evident in the pcs and vids collected does leave fudge room from year to year.
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continued
Of course, we are digging a particular year during colder months. Weather in DEC/JAN was very stormy as established in previous breads. Taking that into consideration, this supports dead of winter dating, imo. Moar on the weather in APR 2013 may bolster pushing the bookend that far out, IDK. The pictorial evidence for cold and drizzly NYE is very solid and is in accord with the severity of weather than shut down Winter Wonderland for a day or so around Christmas day. But the weather in Q pics looks rather mild and so may point to a week or so before or after the very poor weather of that particular 2013/2014 winter week. What we have is a point in time captured in the Q pics that shows less, not moar, leaves in treecover than either early Fall or early Spring. But direct pictorial evidence is the key to firming up the bookends. We don't have that quite yet. So the dig continues.
Hope this helps sum-up the parameters of the bookend question, at this time.
WWG1WGA
>https://www.webcamgalore.com/webcam/United-Kingdom/London/30515.html
That site shows a collection of 365 days of views from that location. Gud for comparison with Q pic for treecover and the like.
See pics.
If the Corinthia Hotel webcam pics of 2019-2020 serve as a guide to the seasonal tree cover at EMB, then, looks like autumn runs SEP-OCT-NOV, winter runs DEC-JAN-FEB-MAR, and spring runs APR-MAY. Up to late SEP 2019 looked almost like summer. By late MAR looked almost spring. But how that would correlate to the specific 2013/2014 time range would depend on weather that year.
Compare specific trees that appear close to the camera in Q pics vs these webcam caps. Not the same vantage point nor direction but almost same distance from some of these trees. Can only guesstimate, natch, and there is no 1-to-1 comparison possible with these pictures. Yet seems to me that APR is not within bounds for Q match. Just my take. Would like to see the lunar/tidal info fit neatly within the time range of other pictorial evidence so will dig moar.
Excellent walk-thru. Showed lots of things considered.
>MAR31- (Think LMI6 pic with water level high and, as implied in ROT1, RS Hispaniola mooring) but still rising toward high tide.) And it is April 1st.
This may seem like a nitpick, fren, and I don't mean to cause a detour so take this with grains of salt. The link between LMI6 and ROT1 would make sense but we have to establish a specific link via the pictorial evidence within the camera frames of each pic. I have not yet nailed it - but maybe others have covered that ground. The link/s might be fairly assumed based on the lights on the building in the background. But thus far that's not enough to link the pics chronologically.
In my view, when it comes to LMI6, keep in mind it may be quite independent of the other EMB pics. It seems to have been taken with a different camera and by someone on foot, lingering. Gud to consider possibilities esp re tides. Just be cautious not to stake too much on an assumed chronological link. Leave some fudge room on that score, if possible.
The LONDON pic and ROT1 and ROT2 share key features that link them chronologically. For example, Q pointed to the cars on the street. That is what makes the ROT1 pic a standout in EMB pics. Its its own 'kingpin' but also a 'linchpin'. And the intriguing possibilities of the stars or sky lights in LONDON might come into play with ROT1'S lunar/tidal info, eventually forging strong link back to LMI6.
Thematically there are links we can discern. And other typs of connections. But it is chrono links for dating purposes that I am going non about here.
At the moment I am examining details in the 4 EMB pics as high-res enhancements have been rendered - very time consuming with my current setup. While ROT1's moon is prolly the best bet for narrowing the date of any of the EMB pics, its connections with the others needs to be made super firm precisely because of the star and tidal evidence in 2 of the other 3 pics. And just for completeness of my communicating my paltry reasoning on these, let me say that while I think the last pic, ROT3 is linked geographically, yes, and prolly chronologically, i am still cautious that the chronological link has not yet been firmed up. And doing that just may be key to connecting all the EMB pics to all the CH pics in a time range.
I realize we need to proceed with lunar analysis as if our assumptions are actually solidified. It sheds light to do it this way. And they are gud assumptions. But just keep in back of mind that there may be moar flexibility if your fact-finding and analysis is not restricted by markers that date these other related pics independently. We do not need to prove moar than we have to on a pic-by-pic basis as far as dating. That said, the most closely related, timewise, seem to be ROT1, ROT2, and LONDON. LMI6 is a kind of wild card sort of like the black box pic. It surely will fit into the puzzle but for dating purposes it is a little moar separated from the others.
Like other anons, I have lined-up the EMB pics on the table and sorted them left-to-right and assumed this was also the chronological order. But that is one of those assumptions that has become almost invisible.
Appreciate your diligence, Anon. Hope to be of some help to your lunar dig in near future.
WWG1WGA
360 DEGREE walk thru Whitehall Gardens in AUTUMN 2020. Close-up view of tree cover from street level but also at qute some distance. Different types of trees still had much leaves while others were bare that year.
The 360 view very useful for our purposes. Grab the picture with the mouse and move around, including behind the walker, as well as above looking through the branches to the sky.
https://youtu.be/9A6PxZO7Vrc
>https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-westminster-palace-and-big-ben-at-night-london-december-2013-144443199.html
Date taken: 28 December 2013
It is a Q match.
Anon, look upbread for shroud pics, many in one post. Goes back to SEP and forward to APR 8, 2014 by which time this scaffold had been removed. Later the rooftop werk continued under moar scaffolds.
For Anons reviewing the LONDON PICS, here is the sequence in which Q dropped the pics and the closely related posts. This is not comrehensive list but provides the backbone of the Q drop sequence. Of note is that LONDON was directly linked, via the way Q nested posts/pics, with the other pics that we have been referring to as the London Pic collection. Q seemed to set forth sets of pics and hinted of interconnexions between these sets. Consider how some pics were grouped with others, from the first intro, while others were intro'd as standalones. Standalone intros included LONDON, WILDE MAUS, and LisaMI6. In various ways these are linked to the other pics in the Q sequence. Then there are the pairs which are intro'd apart from others that are subsequenty grouped together with the pairs. For example, the HEADLESS pic was paired with RED BUS pic and subsequently grouped with another pair - the PICCADILLY wide and close-up pics. Two of the four CH pics were intro'd as a pair - CH1 and CH2 - and then grouped with CH3 to form a sort of triplet. But CH3 was reposted with Tin Eye showing it as a one-off. LONDON was reposted paired with BUS SHELTER S. Q confirmed the cam find of an Anon, and so doing effectively intro'd the 'junction' durng 2012 as pic in the London collection. Likewise the map of the EMB that Q reposted from an Anon in response to Q's prompt that said, simply, The Corinthia Hotel. The last of the EMB pics was intro'd on its own - LisaMI6. And what appeared to be the last in the London Pic collection was simply a pic of the UNION JACK entitled freedom day.
This Q sequence may be useful in organizing and then interpretating Q's comms on the Board, but at this moment have been focussing on dating the London Pics based on the contents within the camera frame of each pic as if each was a standalone. That has necessarily meant using such dating to look for links across the pics to see if they share factors that place them in close proximity chronologically. Some anons have werked the other way by assuming connexions and then grouping the pics in ways that help guide efforts to date them as sets. Both methods have borne fruit in these digs.
Anyway, here is the sequence in which Q dropped the collection, for what it is worth.
LONDON
HEADLESS PAIR and RED BUS
HEADLESS PAIR AND RED BUS
and PICCADILLY WIDE AND PICCADILLY CLOSE-UP
PICCADILLY WIDE AND CLOSE-UP
ROT1, ROT2, ROT3
and LONDON
London pics [prev
Year determined
DEC 2015 SPYGATE IN FULL FORCE and WILDE MAUS
ROT1 w/ENCIRCLED TARGETS
ROT1 w/TARGETS and LP
LP
PS round 2
PS round 2 and LONDON
LONDON and SHELTER S
PS and GOODMAN
TIMELINE for Spygate
LONDON with LP proof
Timelines change. Watch the budget.
Desperate to shelter. Define shelter.
Safety House Build. U1 Funnel Canada X
Series of Placeholder posts.
LP LONDON proof with message - The Corinthia Hotel.
MAP OF EMB
CH1, CH2
CH1, CH2 and CH3
Tin Eye and CH3
Found CAM
Timeline attached. -30, 45, -60, -90
Physical landscape 'proves' it could not have been taken pre 2016.
POTUS 1. CRUZ 2.
Correction - Could not have been taken post 2016. Think 2015. Long day.
Check 2657.
LisaMI6
UNION JACK. FREEDOM DAY.
>Correction - Could not have been taken post 2016. Think 2015. Long day.
It struck me as significant that when Q corrected, or seemingly corrected, an error made in one of his drops, he did not say some variation of 'on the move' but rather said 'long day'.
Might that have another meaning - that is, the day in the pic was long in duration. What is the longest day in the 2013/2014 context.
SUMMER SOLSTICE, 21 JUN 2013.
FIRST DAY OF SUMMER.
21 JUNE 2013 was a FRIDAY. In 2014 it was a SATURDAY. And in 2015 it was a SUNDAY.
The summer solistice in London is the winter solistice in AUSTRAILIA. And vice versa, if I recollect correctly. On the other hand, astronimical solistice usually corresponds with midsummer or midwinter.
Aoart from offering an excuse for an error, or supposed error, what else might 'long day' be understood?
By the way, I have often thot that when Q makes an error or correction, it has moar that the straight forward meaning given the context of both the apparent error and the offered correction. I know that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar … but weighing against that is the notion that everything has meaning and there are no coincidences in spywork.
Published in MAY. Does not suggest taken in MAY. Same goes for posts of pics and vids in open source. That pic is simply an example of seasonal leaf coverage specific to location.
>>11045954, >>11047486, >>11035622
Productive review of the significance of the lights on the MILLBANK building in background of EMBANKMENT pics. Also very gud connexion described between that pattern of lights and the tidal info evident within the camera frames.
Anons please confirm and/or correct the following.
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In these pics the TATT and HISP appeared to be closed. The main lights of the interiors and decks were off. The TATT's gangplanks were left in the dark.There appeared to be no one on decj nor on gangplanks/ramps.
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In LISAMI6, the MILLBANK office building's lights were lit up in a pattern that repeated in ROT2. The night sky was very dark and so the scene appeared to be late night in both pics.
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Pedestrians were on crosswalk in junction in both ROT1 and ROT2.
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Items 1 and 2 served to closely connect LisaMI6, ROT1, and ROT2 chronologically.
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The tide in ROT1 was a high tide. The ROT1 scene could have been taken within a couple of hours of the tide level in LisaMI6.
This high would have been the only night high tide that day. This coincided with a particular pattern of night lights on in the upper floors of MILLBANK.
Might the same pattern of lights have been repeated just so on another night? What are the odds such a detail would have occured randomly, if at all? Low.
The scene captured in LisaMI6 was taken as a high tide rolled in. That means late night - prolly after hours on the TATT and HISP and after typical business hours at MILLBANK - and it means the pics were taken on the same night.
A consequence of this pictorial evidence is that the EMB pics share the same time range and the same timeline. Date one of the pics and you will have dated the others as well.
Posted this here for sake of completeness of discussion and will repost in new bread for continuation of same.