>>15083161

(Please read from the start)

>> It is correct to say that the animal was sacrificed = offered along with prayer, incense and other stuff, depending on the ritual. The good flesh was then taken and cooked and the meal was distributed, either to the members of the family gathered to honor the memory of the deceased. Or the meal was distributed to the needy or the less fortunate people as charity, in the memory of the deceased. Still till this day, some cultures still hold meal gatherings after a funeral to honor the memory of the dead person.

“Advocates of the ‘all-sacrifice’ theory also specify when this event occurred. Gejvall (Reference Gejvall1949) and Docter et al. (Reference Docter, Smits, Hakbijl, Stuijts and van der Plicht2003) thought that all lamb/kid remains from the Carthage Tophet represented spring-born neonates, and Stager (Reference Stager2014) extrapolated from this, and from the rare occurrence of commingled bird and human remains, to the notion of a regular springtime ritual. Our data, however, demonstrate that the low incidence of lamb/kid/bird remains, whether alone, or commingled with human bones (Table S1), cannot support the claim: if all humans were sacrificed, it was always in the spring. More broadly, given the number of potential natural causes of death (see above), it is unlikely that Carthaginians, whether or not interred in the Tophet, died only at certain times of the year.”

>> Last sentence is very correct.

“Yet another justification of the ‘all-sacrifice’ theory?

As deforestation began with the founding of Carthage (van Zeist et al. Reference van Zeist, Bottema and van der Veen2001), it has been argued that nothing less profound than sacrificial cremation would warrant the use of dwindling wood resources otherwise needed for building ships and habitation (Smith et al. Reference Smith, Avishai, Greene and Stager2011, Reference Smith, Stager, Greene and Avishai2013). In reality, Carthage Tophet pyres typically comprised thin branches (Schwartz Reference Schwartz1993; Docter et al. Reference Docter, Smits, Hakbijl, Stuijts and van der Plicht2003), mostly from cultivated small trees (e.g. Prunus) and bushes (e.g. Ligustrum) (Docter et al. Reference Docter, Smits, Hakbijl, Stuijts and van der Plicht2003). Furthermore, charcoal of the largest plant present (Quercus) suggests that only scraps—probably left over from large-scale construction—were used (Docter et al. Reference Docter, Smits, Hakbijl, Stuijts and van der Plicht2003).”

>> LoL! Here we go again with the lack of wood theory. Can someone explain to me how the Carthaginians managed to build their trading fleet for centuries if there is no wood? Can someone explain to me how the Carthaginians managed to build their military naval forces over and over again, each time after it was destroyed during the Punic wars? How did they also manage to build time and time again the siege weapons? Did they use plastic for those?

“Conclusion

In summary, Tophets housed the remains of primarily pre-/perinates, newborns and children ≤5 years of age, and lay outside the city, while main cemeteries lay within city limits and typically contained humans ≥5 years. Only Tophet individuals were cremated and interred in urns. The disparity between urns in the presence of entire individuals, as well as often marked differences between urn contents in degree of incineration (including skeletal elements still in articulation), probably reflects differences at different times and on different occasions in acts of cremation and efforts to recover remains (Schwartz et al. Reference Schwartz, Houghton, Macchiarelli and Bondioli2010). Furthermore, cloth adhering to the internal side of a perinate's barely burned ilium suggests that, after cooling, bones were collected and either wrapped or placed in sacks before being placed in an urn (Schwartz Reference Schwartz1993; Figure S2 in OSM).”

>> This is correct.

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>>15087718

(Please read from the start)

“That Carthaginians maintained two different cemeteries is compatible with the Punic-derived, Roman-Carthaginian practice of not considering offspring as ‘persons’ until they had survived a certain number of years (Norman Reference Norman2002; Stuckey Reference Stuckey2009). Furthermore, as Becker (Reference Becker, Lally and Moore2011) reviews in detail from study of Cazzanello and other south Etrurian sites (e.g. Tarquinia), the burial of prenates, perinates and even children up to five years of age in cemeteries apart from the main cemetery was apparently commonplace in Etruscan culture.”

>> This is also correct.

“From this perspective, rather than conceiving of the Carthage Tophet as a sanctuary solely for the sacrificed, it is not unreasonable to perceive it as a cemetery for humans (with or without attendant animal sacrifices) who, having died prior to formal acceptance into society, were returned to the gods through the smoke of cremation (Stuckey Reference Stuckey2009). Moreover, given that the Carthage Tophet and Cazzanello's children's cemetery are similar in both housing perinates and children, but only Carthage Tophet individuals were cremated, the difference between these two cemeteries is reasonably attributed to cultural differences in burial, not sacrificial, practice (cf. Becker Reference Becker, Lally and Moore2011).”

>> Spot on. The diffrence between the two cemeterires is in burial practice/type, not sacrificial practice.

“While Xella (Reference Xella2009, 2010; Xella et al. Reference Xella, Quinn, Melchiorri and van Dommelen2013) and others (e.g. Quinn (Reference Quinn and Gruen2011) defend the ‘all-sacrifice’ theory by giving priority to non-osteological sources—“archaeology, historical and especially epigraphic evidence” (Xella et al. Reference Xella, Quinn, Melchiorri and van Dommelen2013: 1206)—none can falsify osteological evidence: the teeth and bones of a prenate are the teeth and bones of a prenate. As Becker (Reference Becker, Lally and Moore2011: 31) cautioned in considering infant vs main cemeteries in Rome and Etruria: “Direct evidence suggest[s . . .] that historians and others might wish to consider how the biological evidence relates to their interpretations of the written records”.”

>> Inscriptions = epigraphy can be interpreted any way if it’s not clear. This Xella prefers to rely on non concrete evidence which can be biased = anyone can lie = than rely on physical, tangile, solid, non altered evidences = different bones evidences. This says a lot on whom he is and whom the likes of him are. And this approach of theirs unveils the mafia in the academic world whom is set to slander the Phoenicians in the minds of the general public = anything and everything, all assests out to villify the Phoenicians in any way, shape or form. Anyone reading wondering why? Why is there from long ago till now, this huge effort to villify the Phoenicians/Carthaginians by the Jews and their nobility = the Bloodlines? Why do they hate the Phoenicians so much to spent centuries and loads of money, working hard to make the general public hate them, persecute them and see them as the ultimate evil civilizations? Is this related to why the Evil Lady attacked the Phoenician City-States? Is it the same reason in both cases? Think about all of this for no anons.

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>>15087721

(Please read from the start)

“Although questions remain regarding the reality and extent of Carthaginian infant sacrifice, as well as the identity of those who buried their offspring in Tophets (probably not the poor who, unable to afford formal burial, would seek other avenues for disposing of the dead; cf. Becker Reference Becker, Lally and Moore2011), it seems prudent to think beyond the bizarre and inhumane, and to consider all potential aspects of daily life, in which the unspectacular and mundane are also important: Tophets were cemeteries for the very young, regardless of how they died.”

>> Well, the last sentence we can all agree on. For me, it’s clear: no human sacrifice took place there. But there was something else going on. We always suspected some type of biological reason as in some type of illness. But we never managed to discover it because this stretched out for many centuries, so if it’s the plague or any other decease of the kind, then it’s impossible for it to last for such a long time in a consistent manner.

Another point made here and it’s very correct = you need deep pockets to burry someone in this cemetery. All of that you saw, from the cremation burial ceremony to the animal offerings, to the urns, to the stelae and the inscriptions = all of this costs loads of money anons. An average person wouldn’t be able to afford all of this easily in one package and burry the dead child in the “enclosed” space of this burial. Is this an indication that a specific social group (or should I say a social class, as in middle class and above), was suffering from some special type of “biological/medical misfortune”? Is this an indication that a specific social class was plagued with high infant/birth mortality? Loads to think about here, right?

I know this was extremely long, but it was necessary so that anon understand the ups and downs and the ins and outs of all of this; also going through the arguments and the counter-arguments of each side. It’s more than obvious that this is a burial place, specially made for infant and children below the age of 5. It’s also certain and a FACT that not all buried in there were sacrificed as the Phoenician/Carthaginian haters claim; as some are clearly dead before birth. It’s also a fact that the method of burial was by cremation for this category of dead person. It is also a FACT that the dead children were from both genders and not ALL MALES as the Jews like to claim.

A few additions from me:

1 - I was suspecting it for a long time ago, and now I’m certain of it = ALL of the children buried in the cemetery are dead from one specific illness. We are going to talk about it soon.

2 – The children were cremated mostly for hygiene reasons, mostly when you are dealing with not fully formed children.

3 – The claims of the Jews, the Greeks and the Romans are nothing but slander, lies and they contradict one another when you study them well. This propaganda and persecution campaign started long ago and it still continues till now via the modern day MSM and “academic experts”.

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