Blow by blow by Professor Cleveland
Part 1 of 2
Margot Cleveland
@ProfMJCleveland
THREAD:Sussmann hearing starting now. Toll Free Number: 888-204-5984
Access Code: 8981531 Will live tweet to extent possible.
10:31 AM · Apr 20, 2022
2/ Judge tries to frame issue: Gov't not discussing accuracy unless you open door. but will 1) concluded not valid; 2) steps; 3) and technical terms. Have I framed that correctly & what precisely is your objection?
10:40 AM · Apr 20, 2022·Twitter Web App
3/ "Not as clean as court suggests" based as filing–suggest broader. As to accuracy of data: "through cross examination or otherwise". What does that mean? We don't intend to say there was a link, but may put into evidence Sussmann would have "reasonably believed" and need
4/ lay foundation, so does that open door that Sussmann or someone else couldn't have known. We want to know if that opens door and if so what will he say. He'll say person with basic familiarity with TOR, would not believe page 21, would know inaccurate.
5/ 1) how relevant; and how to get expert to review that. Judge: DOJ why does this matter? DOJ: Need to distinguish b/w truth versus cherry picked. Defense is not saying there WAS a communication.
6/ DOJ: Position is no secret channel. Judge: Did not support existance, not there was none. 2 different things. DOJ: Mueller Gov't had concluded not true and FBI; one or both of companies who maintain servers & show no communication.
7/ DOJ: Made the case about materiality, so jury needs to understand decision tree & involvement of those companies in investigation is part of it. If they concede no communication channel, no need to go into it.
8/ Sussmann: troubled about factual issues about underlying information after the tip.
9/ Sussmann says irrelevant & a trial within a trial. Not about if accurate, or conclusions accurate. What witneesses said will prejudice jury. Okay in general about investigative steps, but gov't not tying what sussmann knew (motive). Re materiality, issue is what they would
10/ do if they knew, is different than if data is accurate. Court: It is relevant to materiality, why not just agents, and do you need companies? DOJ: Those people best able to say what those servers are? Court: I thought that was your expert? DOJ: Not an expert in mass market
11/ FBI did reach out to these companies, it is central to hear from these companies, how did that played into the investigative steps. Court: Companies didn't have anything to do with that, DOJ, what fbi did/public and private steps took and could have taken.
12/ doj: need to say no channel, or jury might buy conspiracy theory. Court: On face has to be known to sussmann, but white papers go further and say mass marketing & and downplay it.
13/ Sussmann: 10,000 pages of data. Okay re general steps. We are not saying there is no channel. We aren't going to get into that game.
14/ Court: Any objection to bullet points on page 3?
Sussmann: first third bullets no, but next three yes. Exh. 1700 (yikes) need to look to get proper scope. Martin was police officer on street 10 years ago may not be qulified. (jerk attorney)
15/ sussmann: why are cia's analysis relevant? the analyst is on witness list anymore. data suggests provider not plausible: CIA is not concluding fabricated. Yotaphone inaccuracy shouldn't come in at all. And CIA's meeting is only relevant if he repeated.
16/ Sussmann: There is an overlap on the DNS data and whitepaper; but entirely separate about Yotaphone and other issues. DOJ: CIA concluded not a true allegation and in feb. 2017, past back to FBI. CIA believed it was created by the users!! WHOA! but Special Counsel has not
17/ reached that conclusion!!! Sussmann: Not a tradeoff. They said we are not intending to get to accuracy of data, but everything they said is about accuracy of data.
18/ They are talking past each each other: Sussmann says saying no communication channel is attacking data. That's not what DOJ is saying.
19/ If Sussmann were involved or had knowledge, or gather in improper or illegal manner, then relevant as to motive–Sussmann grudgingly agrees. Sussmann says no such evidence.
https://twitter.com/ProfMJCleveland/status/1516786636545273861?s=20&t=GpJiUwvGpkcH-W2CTcvoMw