dChan - Q Origins Project Archive

Anonymous ID: 442793 April 18, 2023, 12:55 p.m. No.18715927 🗄️.is 🔗kun

TYB

The Collapse Of The UK’s Gender Identity Clinic - interview with Hannah Barnes

Interviewer Chris Williamson

April 2023

https://youtu.be/kdBfHwzDYLg

In Feb, Barnes published TIME TO THINK ,on this topic. She's more lib than conservative but fair-minded, data oriented. Focused on the standard of care. Says issue is "far more heated" in the States.

HISTORY

Brainchild of Domenico Di Ceglie - 1980s

tried to help children with a "very rare" condition where there seemed to be a mismatch between sex and gender. Numbers were very small, therapy was talking therapy. Exploring gender and other problems – cautious approach. No puberty blockers below age 16, mostly not used. Continued until early 2000s when it came under pressure to do more, after a Dutch clinic took the lead. ~8

There were concerns about effect of puberty blockers on bone density – there's still not much data on that – and on ANYTHING else.

2011 – study on puberty blocks started but by 2014, a new approach was rolled out: early intervention as POLICY. Moved from an "age" approach to a "stage" approach (earlier intervention using puberty blockers was pushed as early as age 9). Coincided with unexpectedly sharp increase in referrals AND a shift in the clients ~13. Previously, most were boys with gender incongruence from an early age. By 2011, girls had caught up – then surpassed boys (2/3 female by a few yrs later). Gender distress had started in their teens, many had eating disorders, sexual abuse, other problems. GIDS was now applying a medical treatment to a new group w/o evidence to support.

2016 – Early on, puberty blockers were not often used, and when used, was done to provide more time for sorting out the issues, but that was no longer the case: now, every child getting puberty blockers was going on to get hormones. That was the "holy Fuck" moment (for those genuinely concerned). EVERYONE was deciding to go onto the next step. VERY SERIOUS turning point. One way street. ~19.

PAGE 1 of 3

>>18715941

The Collapse Of The UK’s Gender Identity Clinic - Hannah Barnes, con't.

Had a big mistake been made?

Discussion about how many were referred to and how many got puberty blockers. Info doesn't seem to have been collected or, if it was, GIDS won't give it. GIDS is run by NHS? Yes. (contracted? Tavisock isn't NHS). ~20-30 [GIDS only served minors (under 18). Only referred for puberty blockers not surgery. Only adults had access to surgery. ]

What we don't know if the longterm effects of puberty blockers. Few children if any are monitored. "Data are….quite poor." Recent UK study (2021) indicated no definite psychological benefit to puberty blockers (despite Dutch study or US studies claiming otherwise. Those have major flaws.). ~34

She says some trans people are very happy with their transition. But those pushing transition are only interested in data that supports their position. Interviewer talks about lifelong implications of medical treatment. Barnes: Argument is given that "young people know who they are."

Interviewer: How many of them are just gay?

MOST OF THEM – like 90%

They don't want to be gay. If they are TRANS (in wrong body), justifies their sexuality. ~43

Many clinicians were concerned about those results, and not just gay clinicians.

Also, vast majority had many other problems that have nothing to do with gender stuff – depression, trauma, unstable homes, etc. They were not children for whom gender issues were the only problem. The identification with "trans" often occurred right after a traumatic event. The trauma needs to be worked thru, not just focusing on gender id. ~50

Autism – more than 1/3 of referrals were on the spectrum. Kids w/autism tend to be very black and white in thinking. Might we be unnecessarily medicating autistic kids? ~57

Why did the numbers take off from 2015?

Advocates think it's because of increased acceptance.

Maybe – for some. Trans became "quite trendy" while being gay still wasn't. But it doesn't explain the full picture. For rise in number of girls wanting to be boys: Rise of hard-core porn makes it hard for girls sexually (they want to measure up). Different id might be the answer? Also, girls are more sensitive emotionally. Also more likely to be sexually abused when younger?

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>>18715943

The Collapse Of The UK’s Gender Identity Clinic - Hannah Barnes, con't.

How much of a role did ideology play?~65

Does play a role – activist groups' influence definitely felt. Mermaids gp in UK – wanted a medical model, intervention at younger ages.

[She's bending over backwards to be neutral.]

Most working in the clinic were just trying to help, but some were ideologues.

Who's to blame?~73

Many parties: GIDS, Tavistock Trust leadership, NHS England, media, politicians, health care regulators. "Systemic failure on a very large scale."

She'd like to believe it was well-intentioned, but ideology did play a role. "It was a belief system, really." [not a conservative] ~79.

People didn't want to admit mistakes. The word "gender" also "muddied the waters." Usual data collection, usual oversight wasn't there. Too specialized. Not an excuse, "there's no grand conspiracy, just fell thru the cracks." [interviewer agrees – more banal than some think, his belief]

NOW: Clinic is still open but many have left. To be replaced by regional services. Primary focus will be psycho social, more focus on talking. No pushing for transition. Data will be collected now. Now there are at least 7500 young people on a waiting list, "it's awful." They need some kind of treatment.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro 00:33 How Hannah Thought Her Book Would Be Received 04:39 The Story of the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) 19:19 When GIDS Started Using Puberty Blockers 30:35 Are Puberty Blockers Reversible? 40:45 Is it Ethical for Minors to Consent to Life-Altering Procedures? 42:28 How Many Young People in Gender Clinics Are Simply Gay? 47:21 The Mental State of Young People Referred to GIDS 57:42 What Caused the Influx of Admissions to GIDS in 2015/16? 1:05:47 The Role Ideology Played in Gender-Affirming Policy 1:14:00 Why Are There So Many Problems & Who is to Blame? 1:26:13 The Lesson Chris Has Learned from Hannah’s Book 1:30:38 Where to Find Hannah

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END

baker on duty

EARLY NOTES @65

will bake early if this trend continues, kek

#22963 >>18715880

>>18715889 Disney heir & other rich folks say "Tax the rich!"

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>>18715910 Charges made re use of U.S. Citizens as Illegal Agents of the Russian Govt

>>18715911 Obama whistleblower Mike McCormick - interview

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>>18715915 More on Brinton

>>18715941, >>18715943, >>18715944 The Collapse Of The UK’s Gender Identity Clinic - Hannah Barnes interview

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>>18715987 Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister is in Damascus, Syria!

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Anonymous ID: 442793 April 18, 2023, 1:26 p.m. No.18716040 🗄️.is 🔗kun >>6046

>>18716031

>Surely I cannot be the only one who Q made go crazy. Surely there must have been others who fell for the BS. QR must be using a filter.

what are you doing here?

Anonymous ID: 442793 April 18, 2023, 1:34 p.m. No.18716068 🗄️.is 🔗kun >>6142

>>18716045

got sauce?

Anonymous ID: 442793 April 18, 2023, 1:38 p.m. No.18716079 🗄️.is 🔗kun >>6087

>>18716076

sauce?

Anonymous ID: 442793 April 18, 2023, 1:40 p.m. No.18716089 🗄️.is 🔗kun >>6266

baker on duty

EARLY NOTES @150