One week after giving testimony before a federal grand jury that is investigating former President Donald Trump’s effort to subvert the 2020 election, former Vice President Mike Pence spoke with the Washington Examiner about the unique position in which he finds himself, especially as he considers running for president against his old boss.

Washington Examiner: I know you cannot get into any of the specifics about your grand jury appearance, but I'm wondering if you could just peel back for readers what the was process like?

Mike Pence: I really can't speak in any detail about the proceedings. But I can tell you that the American people can be confident that the story I wrote in my memoir about those difficult days, the story I've told in numerous interviews and in the wake of the release of my book, is the same story that I tell in every respect. And so, for me, I just have a lot of peace about the process. I'm very concerned about what I see as the politicization of the Justice Department. I'm very concerned about what I see as the criminalization of politics, but we obeyed the law. We did our part, and the American people can be confident that the story we've written, the story we told, is the same story that took place in that setting.

Washington Examiner: How does the Republican Party move forward after what happened in those couple of months after the election in 2020 and on Jan. 6?

Pence: Well, elections are about the future. And if 2022 proved anything, it showed the candidates that were focused on the future, candidates that were focused on offering solutions to the failed policies [of] the Biden administration and focused on the future of the American people did very well.

The candidates that were focused on the past, candidates that were focused on relitigating the past did not fare as well, including in many places that we should have won and should have done well.

So for me, this is all about the challenge that our party faces in 2024: whether we are going to offer that compelling positive vision for restoring American strength and security. And whatever role we're playing, I promise you I'm going to be a voice for the same conservative values that I've always championed through my years in Congress, my years as governor, and my years as vice president.

Washington Examiner: Elephant in the room: You are considering running against the president you served with. It is not unprecedented — Thomas Jefferson, who was John Adams's VP, ran against him — although, in fairness, we chose vice presidents in a very different way back then. So what separates you from Donald Trump? What makes someone choose you over him?

Pence: Well, if I choose to become a candidate for president … elections are about choices. And I was very proud to serve alongside President Trump for four years. I'm proud of the record that we created. However, we have challenges in the country today that I believe need to be met with proven conservative solutions.

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I'm someone that believes in a strong military and for American leadership in the world. We have some in our party that are taking a different view about America's engagement in the world, particularly in Eastern Europe.

I'm someone that believes in limited government and fiscal responsibility, including confronting the national debt crisis by beginning a national conversation about entitlement reform.

There are some in our party that hold the same view that Joe Biden holds that we won't even talk about Social Security or Medicare reform. I can't do that to my three new granddaughters. We have a national debt the size of our nation's economy. It will increase by a factor of five in the next 30 years. But if we produce leadership that'll restore a commitment to fiscal responsibility, that'll embrace commonsense and compassionate reforms of entitlements, I think we can put our nation back on a path toward a balanced federal budget.

And finally, on the right to life, there are some voices in our party that would shy away from the cause of life or say it's only a state issue. But for me, I've been a champion for life since I came to the Republican Party under President Ronald Reagan. And as a candidate, I will always champion the unborn at the federal level and at the state level to advance the cause of life for this and future generations. So I think if I become a candidate, I think there'll be a very healthy debate over the future of our party and the future of the country.

Washington Examiner: Democrats deftly used abortion restrictions as a weapon against Republican candidates in last year’s midterms. Explain why some Republicans struggled over what it means to be pro-life in a post-Dobbs world.

Pence: I think some Republican candidates and officeholders were ready to talk about it and did quite well. I think when you look around the country, the women and men who were standing for office who spoke with principle and compassion on behalf of the right to life did very well. Opponents who shied away from talking about their position or allowed Democrats to define their position did not fare as well. I believe on a race-by-race basis, where Republicans leaned into the issue and spoke with principle and compassion and did not let the Democrats define them, they did very well. But where Republicans shied away from the issue or let Democrats define them on the issue, they did not fare well. … The takeaway for 2024 is to go out and make the case for life and make it with compassion. I think this is a time when our party ought to say and demonstrate we care as much about newborns as we do about the unborn.

And finally, on the right to life, there are some voices in our party that would shy away from the cause of life or say it's only a state issue. But for me, I've been a champion for life since I came to the Republican Party under President Ronald Reagan. And as a candidate, I will always champion the unborn at the federal level and at the state level to advance the cause of life for this and future generations. So I think if I become a candidate, I think there'll be a very healthy debate over the future of our party and the future of the country.

Washington Examiner: Democrats deftly used abortion restrictions as a weapon against Republican candidates in last year’s midterms. Explain why some Republicans struggled over what it means to be pro-life in a post-Dobbs world.

Pence: I think some Republican candidates and officeholders were ready to talk about it and did quite well. I think when you look around the country, the women and men who were standing for office who spoke with principle and compassion on behalf of the right to life did very well. Opponents who shied away from talking about their position or allowed Democrats to define their position did not fare as well. I believe on a race-by-race basis, where Republicans leaned into the issue and spoke with principle and compassion and did not let the Democrats define them, they did very well. But where Republicans shied away from the issue or let Democrats define them on the issue, they did not fare well. … The takeaway for 2024 is to go out and make the case for life and make it with compassion. I think this is a time when our party ought to say and demonstrate we care as much about newborns as we do about the unborn.

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Texas is a great example of this. Texas got virtually no credit nationally for investing another $100 million in care for newborn children and women in crisis pregnancies. It was remarkable. And I think that that's the combination where we're going to win hearts and minds across the country, even in some of these states that seem far gone to the other side on this issue and other issues. I think principle and compassion.

And the other part of this equation is we have to hold Democrats accountable. I mean, a Democratic Party whose position is to support taxpayer funding of abortion all the way up to the moment of birth does not represent the values of the overwhelming majority of the American public. So I think part of it is expressing your position with principle and compassion but also holding Democrats accountable for the pro-abortion position that their party continues to embrace.

Washington Examiner: When and if you decide you're running for president, unless you're going to break news today, as a candidate, what is your message to young people? Republicans lost young people in the midterms in historic numbers.

Pence: One of the richest experiences I've had in the last two years was traveling to campuses around the country with Young America's Foundation. Just last week, I was at the University of North Carolina. I had about 1,200 kids in the auditorium. I've spoken at Stanford, at Georgetown, at University of Virginia, about a month ago at University of Alabama. And I think the way to reach young people is with authenticity, is to speak from your heart about the challenges facing this country and to offer commonsense solutions to moving the country forward.

I have to tell you, I know that a lot of people wring their hands and worry about the youth vote. I'm convinced this is a freedom generation. And I tell them that and virtually every head in the room … and it's a diverse turnout. Not all the kids that show up to hear Mike Pence speak on campus support everything I believe in. But all the heads in the room nod when I say, "This is a freedom generation." I mean, these kids have grown up with the entire world at their fingertips on their cellphone, and you will never convince me that that generation of Americans will willingly embrace a socialist economy and policies that are antithetical to free enterprise and free markets. I just don't.

But I think the key is framing it in that context and really championing freedom to that generation. And I've raised three kids in that generation. They're 31, 29, and 28 right now. They're all married. They're all remarkable people. But to me, the coin of the realm for the rising generation is authenticity. And let me say also … I believe that democracy depends on heavy doses of civility. And I think this is the generation that also would like to see us get back to the kind of politics that can … restore a threshold of civility and respect in the public debate.

Washington Examiner: Outside of Donald Trump, of all the candidates that are or may run, you are the only one who worked in the White House. You understand the stakes of the 3 a.m. phone call. Given the revelation that President Biden keeps a curtailed 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. schedule, is Biden up to that 3 a.m. call? Are you?

Pence: I've known Joe Biden a long time. It's clear, like most 80-year-olds, he's lost a step. But I'm always quick to say Joe Biden has always been that wrong.

On the second question of preparedness, I spent four years answering that question every morning. … Part of what it is to be vice president of the United States is to be prepared in the event of tragic circumstances to assume the duties of the office. And I can tell you that should we go forward and not only seek but be elected to the highest office in the land, I say with great humility that I'm confident that we would be ready on day one to assemble the agenda and assemble the team that could turn this country around. I really believe that. And it's part of what informs our deliberations.

The opportunity not just to have been vice president for four years, [but] to have been involved in an administration that strengthened America at home and abroad, that saw America through the worst pandemic in 100 years, is only part of my story. It also is having been a governor, having been a chief executive in a state for four years, a state that the balanced budgets expanded educational opportunities and stood for traditional values without apology. And then before that, to not only have served in the Congress but served in leadership in the Congress during a time when there were Republican presidents and Democrat presidents. And it is the totality of those experiences that will inform whatever announcement that we have to make in the days ahead. But again, I say with great humility that for four years, every single day I sought to be prepared. And by God's grace, I believe I was.

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Washington Examiner: China is attempting to take our place as a world leader, brokering deals in South America and Saudi Arabia and creating great tension with Taiwan, while Russia rages a war with Ukraine. What are your thoughts on a very tense situation?

Pence: Biden has squandered America's leadership, beginning with the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, then his administration … has flat-lined defense spending for two years — two things that have emboldened the enemies of freedom around the world.

Russia is singularly responsible for their unconscionable invasion of Ukraine, but I have no doubt in my mind that that disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan emboldened Vladimir [Putin] to move across the border.

And China would not [be] brokering a deal between Iran and Saudi Arabia.

To me, that all is evidence of the fact that Joe Biden has created a leadership vacuum on the world stage.

If America is not leading, the free world is not being led. And what you see in these authoritarian regimes is they're filling a vacuum that Joe Biden has left, and it can only be reversed with strong American leadership in engaging the world on behalf of our interests and those of our allies.

Washington Examiner: Do you think it's important that the United States, along with our allies, continue to support Ukraine?

Pence: When I traveled there, I saw sights I never thought I'd see outside of black-and-white films from Europe in the 20th century. Women of every age with children of every age in tow, carrying everything they could on their black. It was a scene of unspeakable tragedy.

I believe it's imperative that America, as the leader of the free world, as the arsenal of democracy, continue to provide the Ukrainian military with the resources that they need to repel the Russian invasion and reclaim their sovereignty. I believe that's in America's interest for two reasons.

No. 1, anyone who believes that Vladimir Putin will stop if he takes Ukraine has a different opinion of Vladimir Putin than I do. And I think it's absolutely essential that we give the Ukrainians the ability to stop him there so that the day doesn't come when the Russian military crosses into a country that we will have to send our own to fight under our Article 5 requirements under NATO.

The second reason is, I believe the most effective way to restrain China's ambitions is for America to lead the West toward supporting Ukraine against the unprovoked Russian invasion. I think that the unity of the West and continued support to a successful conclusion in Ukraine will do more to restrain President Xi's ambitions than anything else that we would be able to do. Now, all that being said, let me say I support the policy, but the Biden administration has been slow from the very beginning in providing Ukraine with the resources that they need, and they continue to move too slowly.

In January, they pledged 33 Abrams tanks, and Ukraine still doesn't have them. I don't know what the holdup is on providing aircraft to the Ukrainian military. I got two fighter pilots in my immediate family. Give the Ukrainians what they need to go fight and win. Joe Biden says in his State of the Union address that we're there as long as it takes. And my response is, it shouldn't take that long. If the United States would lead our allies in the world to give them the resources they need, the Ukrainian fighters had demonstrated their courage and their toughness and their ability to prevail against Russian forces.

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