So basically what we have is a reasonably clear continuity of a culture, of sorts. Whether this actually represents a continuous bloodline or not we cant be sure.

It goes- Canaan-Phoenicians-Carthage-Venice-Netherlands-United Kingdom (with William of Orange)- USA (with 20th century takeover of UK banking model) Venetian agents like Paolo Sarpi and Gasparo Contarini promote both crypto-atheism and occult mysticism. This duality can be seen in the obsession with alchemy of the empiricist Isaac Newton, who was promoted by the Venetians, rather than rational idealists like Leibniz. Why is empiricism a tool of tyranny? If sense data can be controlled through control of media and institutions, people will have a warped perception of what is ‘real’. Draw a map from bad data, must extend known into unknown. Why are extrapolative science models like evolution, cosmology and global warming the touchstones for ‘believing in science’? Rationalism and idealism is the only counter for ‘little people’ to defend themselves from this. Promote both Reformation figures like Luther and create the counter-reformation (Sarpi created the career of Loyola) Swamps of Venice= Source of modern banking (referenced by 'Drain the Swamp'?). Unclear Phoenician link to Minoans of Crete (Minotaur- Molech?, minotaur lives inside a labyrinth (secrecy?) and demands a sacrifice of children). Clear link of child sacrifice from the bible (Canaanites) to recorded history (Carthage), and archaeological evidence of child sacrifice at Tyre (Pheonicia). Sacrifices have an element of sexual orgy and promise of future wealth (moisture/fertility/soil/crops). Venetians responsible for death of Byzantine Empire (4th Crusade, double-crossing of Byzantium on Treaty of 1082 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine–Venetian_Treaty_of_1082 ). Venetian traders also responsible for economic undermining of Ottomans. Ottomans try to wipe out but defeated at Lepanto. Christians try to wipe out Venice at League of Cambrai (plus many other times) but always Venetians manage to split off coalitions against them. Venetian model espouses trade and banking over industry and agriculture. Uses intelligence networks (overlaid with trade), mercenary armies (like blackwater, ISIS etc) and naval power to rule. Marco Polo as intelligence agent rather than ‘explorer’, uses the mongols to destroy enemies?(Christian and Muslim). British and Dutch East India Companies (Stratfor Orbis et al) as continuation of this model. Why move to North Europe? Discovery of deep-water sailing techniques/hulls make Venetian domination of Mediterranean obsolete. Rules via hidden secret Oligharchy who bind each other through forbidden religious practices, fraternity hazing and Masonic rituals as kindergarten for this mentality (the capstone is detached), rather than a king or emperor who is part of visible hierarchy. Weakness of Venetian Oligharchy? Secrecy is double edged. No real loyalty of subjects except through fear and misinformation (false flags). Also no strong military spirit like Republican Rome, Early Byzantium (see Flavius Belisarius) or Sparta. Must rely on barbarian mercenaries as shock troops as civilizational model of social incohesion produces decadence. Strengths? Elites become convinced of truly superior nature, willingness to conceal, anyone who ‘slips up’ gets sacrificed to masses. Many great heroes of Western Civilisation have attempted to wipe this civilisation out, King David, Moses, Scipio Africanus, Alexander the Great. Always they survive. How? Dispersion of trade networks helps to decentralise. How to defeat? Draw them out, all or nothing contest. MUST break dialectical thinking to achieve this. Truth is their enemy but public perception of truth must shift from ‘fact’ to ‘logic/fact’ dynamic mediated through Socratic questioning.

Control of history- enlightenment propaganda (Newton and Galileo credited over Leibniz and Keppler to reinforce empiricism as true source of science), demonization of foes (Byzantium, Machiavelli, Russian Czars, Ghibbeline Monarchs). Hidden Hand (freemasonry, Rosicrucianism, Illuminatti et all).

Jewish links? Shakespeare- Merchant of Venice? Iago? -Hidden Cult within a religion? Revenge of Amalek?

Other typical tactics- empower minorities artificially- creates dependence on you- resentment on gen. pop. Makes minority act defensively, breaks the vertical integration of society. Examples- Sikhs and Zoroastrians favoured in British India, certain Maori tribes favoured in NZ. Intersectionality as colonial tactic on western countries to distract from power/keep the little people fighting. Jews as patient zero for this tactic.

>>2593288

I specifically said that there is not necessarily a continuity of bloodline, but definitely a continuity of a model of empire. The reason William of Orange is important is that it is he who imports this model into the UK. Banking is key. City of London. History of HSBC (under old name) with East India company- drug trade-still happening today. I wouldn't be so quick to say that you know the history of Dark Age Venice. Venetians brag that their lagoons protected them from the hun/german barbarians so who knows. Italian nobility/monarchy has much much older traceable bloodlines than most northern European groups. Also I find it suspect that the crack Byzantine general Belisarius was recalled due to court intrigues after he had reconquered almost all of Italy and was pushing into the north. Do you think it is coincidence that Shakespeare put his criticism of usury, of using racial tension as tool of division, and his most inscrutable manipulative villain (Iago) in Venice? Why would these people give DNA samples anyway? Remember we are dealing with an Oligharchy. Not monarchy, necessarilly. The destruction of Ghibbeline and Hohenstaufen monarchs has actually been a priority for them, as far as I can make out. Two groups responsible for Bronze age collapse- Sea Peoples (Minoans) invading, and Phoenicians (create dependence on international trade-systems collapse when disrupted by Minoans). Both have same religion? (Molech/Minotaur)

>>2595458

Switzerland is an island fortress for them to store their gold. They have been allowed to keep a socially cohesive model (well armed, sovereign currency, low/no immigration) while the rest of Europe falls into banker-led neofeudallism. They are participants of the NWO and a dual home of Freemasonry with London, but allowed to keep their culture so they can protect the bankers money if all goes to pot. They are the striking proof of what is being done to us. Their last aggressive war was associated with the League of Cambrai to try and destroy Venice, interestingly. They have been purely defensive since then.

>>2598554

In terms of 'controlling' dialectics, the true mastery is knowing how any idea will play out long term. Think Inception. Wheels within wheels. A population does not necessarlly need to be sheep-dogged along a particular path. If you set the dialectic up properly people only need a little nudge to fall into their protestant vs Catholic camps and they will do it to one another. If my vision goes deeper than yours, I can see farther into the future, and though you think you are following your own interest you will simply be acting out a pattern I have predicted and accounted for. Think about the character of Averill Harriman. Funded Hitler. Got wealth frozen when USA joined the war. YET got picked to go to USSR to secure Lendlease loans, and secured much more than originally agreed to. And did a domesday book of all Soviet industry, and practically ran the USSR economy for Stalin for a year. Did he believe in any of it? No. They have been experimenting with different forms of totalitarianism, Aldous Huxley won the argument, now they think they have got all the good genes to the the top and can epistemologically seal themselves off with a veil of ignorance and let the (previously somewhat workable) heirarchies die. Oligharchy (tech/banking/intelligence) rules, everybody else multicultural ignorant paralysed soup.

>>2607401

Good catch anon. That's the best P=C I can think of so far. Also it seems like the Punics liked creepy masks very similar to the masquerade masks of the Venetians. I cant let go of the Minotaur inside the maze. And that a Sicilian Greek source I remember talking about the Carthaginians said that Carthaginians was the word they used around foreigners, but amongst themselves they called each other Canaanites. A people who conceal their true identity. A vile god, a bull, who lives inside a labyrinth and devours children.

This sound like (((anyone)))?: The reputation of Carthaginian traders was well-known, if not particularly flattering, in the Greek world as attested by a star character in a lost Greek comedy play, re-worked by the Roman playwright Plautus in his Poenulus (The Punic Chappie). He describes one Hanno, a merchant, who has amongst his wares pipes, shoe-straps, and panthers, a comic cargo designed to show that the Carthaginians would trade in anything they could get their hands on as long as it turned a profit.

>>2607401

In this (((Hollywood))) classic, maximus fights as a gladiator in the leader of the 'Carthaginians' in the Second Punic war. Second Punic war was decisive war, after that Carthage was dead man walking. This movie depicts Romans none too well. Very hostile to all roman characters, really, even Aurellius. Maximus and his multicultural 'carthaginians' upset the predicted outcome. Big reveal of the scene? Maximus' 'unmasking', revealing the enemy of Caesar. What politics are considered 'good' in this film? Removal of Caesar and reinstatiation of full democracy (oligharchy of senatorial class). What happened to Maximus' son and wife? Burnt alive, he finds charred corpses (really Carthaginian sacrifice for victory?). What does Maximus' gladiator teacher tell him? 'Win the crowd'. Just like MSM Hollywood. By 'winning the crowd' MSM and Hollywood can re-write/revenge history. Carthage hates Rome. (((They))) hate Rome. Venice hated (Papal) Rome. They spent half of their existence excommunicated or in extremis for religious deviancy and crypto-atheism. They engineer Protestantism/Jesuits (maybe east/west split too?) to break power of Rome and create conflict zones to feed the beast/make money. The big missing link is Carthage to Venice. How did they make it there? Venice is probably the only city to not be heavily mixed with Lombards/Huns/Goths in migration period. So Oligharchy could be easily authentic culture from before that. Maybe much before?

Also in 'going clear' Scientology founder Hubbard was sailing round the Mediterranean with 'Sea Org' disciples, looking for Phoenician treasure. Told people he was a reincarnated Phoenician Prince. Sick sexual overtones (esp pedo) rampant in Scientology. Hubbard was student of Crowley ( OTO, Mason, Golden Dawn, Satanist, Pervert) In Bohemian Grove the 'priest' says something like: 'though the stones of Tyre and Babylon lie broken, still we…' something or other. Why are secret societies identify with Phoenicia and seek revenge on Rome/West? Knights of Malta and Templars meant to defend Rome, but provide pathway in for Oligarchy via slow masonic infiltration? Object lesson- secrecy is their friend. Do not employ long term or you will give them a home to weave webs.

From Virgil, the Queen of the Carthaginians swears war eternal against all the sons of Rome, after being abandoned.

"Let there be no love between our peoples and no treaties. Arise from my dead bones, O my unknown avenger, and harry the race of Dardanus with fire and sword wherever they may settle, now and in the future, whenever our strength allows it. I pray that we may stand opposed, shore against shore, sea against sea and sword against sword. Let there be war between the nations and between their sons for ever." (Bk. IV: 622-9)

But why do so many of the oligarchical elites identify with this? Historical mystique? Desire to feel apart, justified in repression? Or some more tangible link?

>>2610669

Yes, maybe its Pope=Canaan? I mean in Catholic doctrine the Pope is the representative of Christ but that seems too prosaic for Q. This from Epiphanius, the most prolific writer against heresies in the early church:

And then, during the time between Eber, and Peleg and the building of the tower and the first city after the flood—which was founded in its actual building—came the beginning of the taking of counsel, and of autocracy. (2) For Nimrod the son of Cush the Ethiopian, the father of Asshur, ruled as a king. His kingdom arose in Orech, Arphal and Chalana, and he also founded Tiras, Tubal and Laban in Assyria. The Greeks say that this is the Zoroaster who went on further to the east and became the original settler of Bactria 3,3 The world’s transgressions were spread abroad from there, for Nimrod was the originator of wrong doctrine, astrology and magic—which is what some say of Zoroaster.2 But in actual fact this was the time of Nimrod the giant; the two, Nimrod and Zoroaster, are far apart in time. 3,4 Peleg was the father of Reu, and Reu was the father of Serug, which means “provocation”; and, as I have been taught, idolatry and Hellenism began among men with him.3 It was not with carved images yet, or with reliefs in stone, wood or silver-plated substances, or ones made < of gold or any other material, that the human reason invented evil for itself and, with its freedom, reason and intellect, invented transgression instead of goodness, but only with paintings and portraits. 3,5 Nahor was born as a son to Serug and became the father of Terah.

Later: "A kind of succession of Scythianism, and the name for it, remained in being until his time, but there was no such thing as a sect yet, no device other than simply a “< first fornication, thinking on idols.”6 And after that people made gods of wretched despots, or sorcerers who had deceived the world, by honoring their tombs. (10) And much later they made Cronus, and Zeus, Rhea, Hera and the rest of them into gods, and then they made one by worshiping Acinaces—and the Scythian Sauromatians made gods by worshiping Odrysus and the ancestor of the Thracians, from whom the Phrygian people are derived. This is why Thracians are named for the person called Thera, who was born during the building of the tower. 3,11 When error had its beginning history had arrived at the point I have indicated. < Hellenism began with the Egyptians, Babylonians and Phrygians >, and then made a hash of < men’s > ways. After that historians and chroniclers borrowed from the imposture of the Egyptians’ heathen mythology < and conveyed it to the other nations >, and this was how sorcery and witchcraft were invented.

So the Nimrod World Order according to this account is Wicked rulers, tricksters. and Sorcerers who set themselves up to be worshipped as gods. 'Covered in Gold'

Interestingly the practice seems to be associated then with somehow parents outliving their children? Veiled reference to sacrifice?

>>2610669

Back to Venice- source of masqeurade. Carnivale. Origin of 'Luna Park' - place of distraction. Luna Park Sydney was site of probable Moloch sacrifice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Sydney_Ghost_Train_fire

Ghost Train fire burnt many children alive. Child who died was photographed hours earlier with man in Molech mask. Mother said in news article that she thought occultists murdered her son, but thrown away as sensationalist. Considered accident till recently when King of Sin (((Abe Saffron)))'s daughter came forward and said he was behind it. Abe Saffron notorious gangster and drug pusher in Sydney. impossible COINCIDENCE?

Hiding faces common when Oligharchy votes. Phantom of the Opera mask-hidden menace-also revenge theme. Historical revisionism glorifies this as democratic solidarity. Symbolic of lack of responsibility? Or of hidden heirarchy? Remember only the Oligharchy voted. John Coleman and Webster Tarpley both allege that (((Khazars))) infiltrated the Venetian Oligarchy, calling themselves Sepharvaim. Eastern Religion penetrate Rome through Cleopatra/Anthony, Oracle of Delphi (maybe) and Zenobia (possible intermarriage with Aurelian). Zenobia pictured with Phrygian cap, from Palmyra, (recently in news because ISIS destroyed Baal temple there). Zenobia either Arab or Aramean heritage. otherwise Molochism somehow migrated into Venice in dying days of Rome to avoid collapse.

>>2618117

>>2623048

Ok, dude. I clearly said that the bloodline heritage is hard to prove and that the important thing is a continuation of a culture/religion/form of empire. Im not here to play haplogroup superiority games with an Aryan theorist or 'British Israelite' fantasist if that's what you are. The 'Scythian' mentioned in the quote from an early Christian source, of which I am quite familiar, he is mentioning a mode of religion, not the actual civilisation. Zoroaster is actually dismissed as the source of Babylon, if you can actually read the quote, because of the time/distance. Do you really expect the origins of a secret society/empire to be in recorded history? Then you have to look for features that have too much in common to be coincidence and find a plausible way to connect the dots. Anyone who knows anything about secret societies and the occult knows that it comes from Babylon/Egypt/Phoenicia/Canaan-Carthage, with some European paganism thrown in. Plus the Book of Enoch is from Ethiopia. Venice is almost an exact clone of Carthage, from the model of politics, the maritime supremacy, the reliance on mercaneries, the divide and conquer strategies, the detached Oligarchy, inflationary banking, the hatred of Rome. The question we have to answer is why. Why do our elites associate with religions and cultures so hostile to ours (and so degraded)? Why do they hate us? I very much doubt you know a lot more history than me, so contribute something interesting or piss off. You cant question a degraded or faulty map by using the faulty map.

>>2623048

Alright haplo-fag, I did some digging and here are some results. Actually it interestingly points towards the core part of my theory.

• Later Carthaginian Y-DNA is heavily mixed with European but links back to Phoenicia through critical J-groups. https://marchofthetitans.com/2016/05/28/dna-phoenician/ J-groups are associated mostly with Lebanon and Israel. Corpse believed to be Canaanite has 80% relation to modern Lebanese. Canaanites and Israelites had almost identical language and genetics.

In the largest genomic study of Ashkenazic Jews, and the first one to study Yiddish speakers, we to the genomes of more than 360 Yiddish and non-Yiddish speaking Ashkenazic Jews.

Also Ashkenazim go back to 300 female ancestors in 12-1400s. (LA times, might not be trustworthy source https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-ashkenazi-jews-dna-diseases-20140909-story.html)

Here is the big kicker though. The pre-roman tribe of the Veneti were just another Gallo/thracian tribe, nothing special. And like all Italians Venetians have some Greek mixed in from classical times, plus some Germanic/Slavic from interactions with greater Europe. What cant be explained easily however is that a solid core of Venetian DNA goes back to paphlagonia, a region of the south coast of the black sea, or northern Turkey, that just so happens to be RIGHT NEXT TO THE ORIGIN OF THE YIDDISH SPEAKING ASHKENAZIM. Interestingly this is also not far from the city of Troy, fabled ancestor of the romans, it seems that the north coast of Turkey is where everything started.

Remember the Phoenician/Carthaginian/Venetian type of empire will leave a huge cultural and historical imprint but not a big genetic one, seeing as the model is ethnically distinct Oligarchy ruling over a multicultural blob of subjects.

>>2668535

They got it from Cornwall. For fucks sake stop shitting this thread with bonkers Mormon shit. Go rub your magic freemasonic occult underwear.

'Continuing Nazi Ideology is Relevant'

'Think Subgroup'

Hmmm.

I'm 99% percent sure that the occult aspect of Nazi ideology is relevant. Nazi occultism revolved around, Thule, astrology, Atlantism, Hyperborianism, Darwinism.

There is a Satanist group called the Order of Nine Angles. While I have no idea if it is as widespread and powerful as it claims, it fits the bill in many ways. It could be that it is a lesser seeding of a higher but similar ideological framework.

1. Human Sacrifice.

Explicitly condones human sacrifice. 'mundanes' (lesser humans) as well as cult members are to be sacrificed. Is shunned by other Satanist groups like Temple of Set and Chuch of Satan for this. 'Beserk' Manga references fit their ideology perfectly. They are trying to bring a new Aeon (child of Darkness?) into existence through sinister acts. Once someone becomes a 'Priest', they are marked for sacrifice in a years time (Brand of sacrifice). While they say they do not practice child sacrifice, they also tell you upfront that they are lying about some details. They condone creation of wars to cull mundanes ('feed the eye')

1. Secrecy and Infiltration.

They are a cell-based group that exist in gangs and 'Drekks' (droogs?). They explicitly say that they have created a labynthine web of symbols and double meaning that only the 'worthy' can figure out. This gnostic type of Satanism reminds me of known Satanist and pedophile Roman Polanski's 'Ninth Gate'. They condone infiltration of powerful organisations and churches (Recent revelations of satanic pedo activity in RC Pennsylvania). They also say that anarchist groups are a good way to spread disorder to break down the system and create Chaos (Antifa?). They say they are in the P3 phase now, having moved on from P2 (P2 lodge?). So less secrecy and more conversions of 'Adepts'.

1. Nazism

They are explicity Nazi and elitist, though dedicate little time to racial science. They have said that they are wanting to create more non-Aryan branches, though. Possible founder was known to convert to Islam for a period. Movement uses Muslim crescent moon symbol often as code for Baphomet. School shooters almost all white? (Now maybe muslim?). Their sacrificial rituals involve draining blood and making it into bread (same as blood libel). Vampirism mentioned often.

1. Mothers of Darkness.

They are very keen to emphasise the 'female sinister' associated with mother earth and Baphomet. They criticise so much of the current order as being 'magian' and 'patriarchal'. So much of (((their))) activity has women at the top or uses female imagery or uses women as a shield (Clinton/Abedin/Merkel/Lagarde/Vanderbilt/Jarrett, ISIS, #MeToo),

1. Diabolical Monism

They are not wedded to any one tradition, and are essentially satanic monists or pantheists. They draw from Alchemy and Astrology primarily, but have many other inputs. They think themselves as people who can enter the 'Abyss' of death and become an acausal being (god/demon/Aeon) through mastery of knowledge and 'sinister' acts. Therefore the adoption of Aztec symbology like we see in Vanderbilts necklace and MS13 would only be natural. Aztecs were the most prolific human sacrificers. Their 'seven-fold path' and 'wyrd tree' comes from the sephirot of Jewish Kabbala, which comes from Hermes Trismegistus (Greek/Egyptian). The 'Nine Angles' are the angles the planets make to earth (astrology). Interestingly, in Tolkien's work, the 'seven' and 'Nine' are the 'corrupt' rings given to dwarfs (clearly Jews) and Numenoreans (clearly Atlantean/Hyperborean) men by the deceiver Sauron, the Lord of the Rings (Cronos, Saturn, Moloch etc). The 'three' rings are the only uncorrupted rings (clearly Trinity/Christianity). Methinks Tolkien knew some shit.

As a side note they are from England originally, or so they say, and also formed in the early seventies (same year Clinton visited the Voodoo shaman).