Anonymous ID: c14b7d Sept. 25, 2024, 9:03 p.m. No.21658898   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>8901 >>8924 >>8925 >>8926 >>8933 >>8955 >>8963 >>8966 >>8981 >>8987 >>8996

Could e wrong but I wonder.

Your clothes and dishes used to get really clean easily, then they removed TSP.

They said it was because it causes algae bloom in rivers and stream and that is bad, they said that was a problem.

Today, cleaning clothes without trisodium phosphate requires more additives, more hot water, and more energy.

THEY banned TSP.

YET, algal growth removes carbon from the atmosphere.

I buy TSP at Lowes in the paint department and add just a small amount into all my laundry cycles.

I don't use a dishwasher, I have one, but I hand wash, always have.

If I used the dishwasher I would add TSP there as well.

HMMMM

 

PB

>>21657893

>>21657927

Algae, is the mysterious substance.

 

Oceanic algal blooms produce around 80% of the earth's oxygen.

Anonymous ID: c14b7d Sept. 25, 2024, 9:13 p.m. No.21658924   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>8926 >>8933 >>8938

>>21658898

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/tsp.105943/

Jun 15, 2011

#1

For what its worth, someone in a thread on shop rags and cleaning them mentioned TSP (Tri Sodium Phosphate) as a "booster". Someone mentioned Ace Hardware as a source of it. I went there, they had three different products labeled TSP, none of them were, the fine print on the containers said "subsutitute" under the TSP. They actually were Sodium Metasilicate, the stuff used in Westleys Bleach White tire cleaner.

 

Today I stumbled into the real deal, TSP, at Home Depot, in the PAINT department, just above the mineral sprits, paint thinner and alcohol. Its a powder in a box and is intended for cleaning siding, and such prior to painting. Guess since the no phosphate crap in laundry detergents, the only way to keep the stuff on the market is to "repurpose" it as a general purpose cleaner.

 

This evening I ran a couple of buckets of water, liquid Tide, and TSP and put some shop rags in them to soak. Agitated by hand and the water turned very gray, very quickly, I think it does help…………..

 

FYI if anyone cares………..

 

Jun 16, 2011

You might have passed up on something that works better on dirty rags than TSP. I use Sodium Metasilicate in or on all kinds of stuff for cleaning grease. Mixed in the right % with water it will cut straight motor oil or bearing grease like a petrol solvent.

I prefer Sodium Metasilicate to TSP on oil and grease any day. I also use it in the dealerships in the shop mop buckets to boost the com grade cleaner solutions. Sodium Metasilicate will boost other cleaning solutions very well.

 

Jun 16, 2011

#7

Yup, usually in the paint department.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_phosphate

 

But read the label carefully, as I have seen TSP in big letters and then in itty-bitty print "substitute" or some-such. Which is NOT the same thing.

 

The 'problem' is that phosphates (in detergents and in fertilizer) cause plants to grow. (which is usually the entire purpose of fertilizers). The 'problem' is that fertilizer run-off and all the phosphates in (old, no-longer available for the most part) in old detergent formulas get into the water stream and cause plants and especially small green plants called algae :D to grow well. The suddenly well-growing algae and other plants in the water supposedly use up oxygen in the water and then the fish in the water can't get enough oxygen and they die. (except I thought that plants typically take in carbon dioxide and release oxygen as part of the photosynthesis process http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis).

 

Phosphates are (or have been) phased out of most detergents because of 'environmental concerns'.

 

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/15/132072122/it-s-not-your-fault-your-dishes-are-still-dirty

 

 

Jun 15, 2011

#4

My Dad used TSP on woodwork and other items that needed a thorough cleaning before being repainted , the stuff does the trick. Another cleaning agent he swore by was the powdered version of SPIC-n-SPAN. He would wash down grimy and greasy walls with that before painting. Has anyone seen that lately ?

 

Jun 16, 2011

#17

(Light bulb) Just figured out what happened to Spic 'n Span! I used to use it on dirty coveralls etc and then the powder disappeared - and the liquid replacement just didn't work.

 

Sure enough, just did a quick check and voila: it was the TSP that did the work AND got it taken off the shelf.

 

Sorry, sorta off topic, .. we will now resume the earlier conversation ….

 

Jun 16, 2011

This is good to know….

Anonymous ID: c14b7d Sept. 25, 2024, 9:13 p.m. No.21658926   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>8933

>>21658898

 

>>21658924 cont

Jun 15, 2011

#3

Several years ago the environmental wackos got it removed from cleaning products because it supposedly hurt fish. When I see an old box of the real TSP at yard sales, I pick it up. Didn't know you could still get it.

 

Jun 15, 2011

#5

I love tsp to clean wood, it really brings the grain out. Ive only seen it in the paint dept. I knew it was removed from other cleaning supplies years ago, But I am too young to remember it

 

Jun 16, 2011

#6

Used the TSP last nite to do a couple of loads of shop rags. I think they came cleaner than using the liquid tide alone, and the buckets did not have as much grease/oil residue inside them (I suppose it stayed suspended in the water and got tossed out)

 

Had to hurry as the weather was turning bad fast and I had to hang the rags on the indoor line stretched across the shop and get closed up, fast.

 

Jun 15, 2011

#2

I used something that sounds very similar to clean some pistons I had melted ( for measuring and handling sake)

 

Hot hot water plus tsp made it react with the pistons and eat all the gunk off, no agitating needed. I thought it was neat stuff.

 

 

Jun 16, 2011

#7

Yup, usually in the paint department.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_phosphate

 

But read the label carefully, as I have seen TSP in big letters and then in itty-bitty print "substitute" or some-such. Which is NOT the same thing.

 

Jun 16, 2011

#10

The other place you can get TSP is from brewing supply houses. It's used to clean fermenters.

 

Plus, you can do "research" on the subject over a few pints.

 

Jun 16, 2011

#12

If you notice, most lawn fiertilzer now has no phosporus. Just nitrogen and potassium.

 

Jun 16, 2011

#15

The TSP at home depot is actually pretty cheap, and a small box goes a long way IMO.

 

I have used it recently and it is great for deglossing paint. I didn't have to do any sanding.

Anonymous ID: c14b7d Sept. 25, 2024, 9:21 p.m. No.21658955   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>8963

>>21658898

https://www.npr.org/2010/12/15/132072122/it-s-not-your-fault-your-dishes-are-still-dirty

Dishes Still Dirty? Blame Phosphate-Free Detergent

December 15, 2010

Is your dishwasher not working the way it used to? Earlier this year, with little fanfare, detergent makers reworked their formulas.

This was supposed to be good for waterways. But it turned a simple chore into a frustrating mystery for many people across the country.

A couple of months ago, Sandra Young from Vernon, Fla., started to notice that something was seriously amiss with her dishes.

"The pots and pans were gray, the aluminum was starting to turn black, the glasses had fingerprints and lip prints still on them, and they were starting to get this powdery look to them," Vernon says. "I'm like, oh, my goodness, my dishwasher must be dying; I better get a new dishwasher."

Young's not alone. Many people across the country are tearing out their hair over stained flatware, filmy glasses and ruined dishes.

Sue Wright from Austin, Texas, says for months her cups and glasses have been coming out of her year-old dishwasher covered with black specks. She called three repairmen to her kitchen, but her dishes were still dirty.

"I looked at a plumber's rear end for about two months this summer sticking out from under my sink," Wright says. "I was just totally frustrated. I couldn't figure out what was going wrong."

Finally, after months of aggravation and expense, Wright found out the real reason for her speckled cups: This summer, detergent makers took phosphates out of their detergents.

Seventeen states banned phosphates from dishwasher detergents because the chemical compounds also pollute lakes, bays and streams. They create algae blooms and starve fish of oxygen.

But dirty and damaged dishes are turning many people into skeptics, including Wright.

"I'm angry at the people who decided that phosphate was growing algae. I'm not sure that I believe that," Wright adds.

Sandra Young was so mad that she called Procter & Gamble, which makes Cascade, to complain. But when she did, a company representative told her to be more careful about which pans she puts into her dishwasher.

"He said, 'Well, if you're really having that hard of a problem, maybe you should wash your dishes by hand.' Which I thought was kind of strange for an automatic dishwashing company."

Susan Baba from Procter & Gamble says the company had no choice. It just wasn't feasible to make detergent with phosphates for some states and without them for others.

"You know, this isn't really a huge environmental win," she says.

That's because phosphates are wonder ingredients. They not only strip food and grease from dishes but also prevent crud from getting reattached during the wash. So she says without phosphates, people have to wash or rinse their dishes before they put them in the dishwasher, which wastes water. Or they run their dishwasher twice, which wastes electricity.

Dennis Griesing of the American Cleaning Institute, a trade group, says it could take time, but phosphate-free detergents will improve. That's what happened with laundry detergents after phosphates were removed from them years ago. He says these inconveniences are part of a bigger trend.

"We're going though a very significant readjustment in our lives to accommodate our ecological needs," Griesing says.

But not everyone is willing to adjust. Sandra Young figured out a way to undo the phosphate ban – at least in her own kitchen.

She bought some trisodium phosphate at a hardware store and started mixing her own formula.

"It seems to be working pretty good," Young says.

Other people have given up on their machines altogether and are washing dishes by hand. But some are switching to other brands and making peace with phosphate-free detergents.

Anonymous ID: c14b7d Sept. 25, 2024, 9:25 p.m. No.21658963   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>8966

>>21658898

>>21658955

https://www.npr.org/2009/06/22/105741990/bubble-bandits-defy-dishwashing-soap-ban

Bubble Bandits Defy Dishwashing Soap Ban

June 22, 20096:00 AM ET

Heard on Morning Edition

Vanessa Romo

Spokane County, Washington, became the first place in the country to ban the sale of high-phosphate dishwasher soap — which includes most popular brands. And that's meant a boom in trafficking of "illegal" diswasher soap from nearby Idaho.

DAVID GREENE, host:

Let's go now to Spokane, Washington, where there's been a boom in the trafficking of an unlikely substance over the last year. It's an organized trade with highly coordinated schedules and a whole network of dealers, and much of it is family-related.

Vanessa Romo has our story.

VANESSA ROMO: Pat Dalton is on the precipice of becoming an interstate bootlegger. She's got a full tank of gas in her 2004 Chevy Minivan, and she's draped in black from head to toe, just like a cat burglar or a ninja.

(Soundbite of banging sound)

ROMO: The mission is simple: drive 29 miles from Spokane to Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, pick up the stash and head straight home. She's not nervous or remorseful. In fact, she seems gleeful.

Ms. PAT DALTON: I'm a smuggler.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Ms. DALTON: I'm a bubble bandit.

(Soundbite of laughter)

ROMO: That's right. Pat, a 54-year-old churchgoing mother of three, is a soap smuggler. Almost a year ago, Spokane County became the first place in the country to enforce the strictest ban on high-phosphate dishwasher soap, which pretty much means all of the most popular brands in America. It's supposed to reduce phosphorus pollution in local streams and rivers. So that means no more Electrasol PowerBall Tabs and out with new Cascade liquid gels. Now, only eco-friendly products with less than a half percent phosphates are sold within county lines. Pat Dalton said at first, she was totally on board.

Ms. DALTON: You know, because I wanted to take care of our water. But then as soon as I had to use the soap, I went, this is no good.

ROMO: Actually, Consumer Reports did rate some of these eco-products well. Still, Pat's not impressed, and she's not alone. Just ask the good people at Rosauers, a local grocery store.

Ms. SANDY FRANKS(ph): It just doesn't clean as well. It doesn't take out the stains.

Mr. FRED SPRINGER(ph): The new soap stains the dishes.

Ms. JESSIE CRAMER(ph): Nothing got clean.

Mr. SPRINGER: Well, there's spots on there after it goes through the heat cycle.ROMO: Okay. So these humans - Sandy Franks, Fred Springer and Jessie Cramer, may not be fans of the new soap, but the fish living in Spokane County presumably are.

Mr. TOM BRADAVILLE(ph) (Activist): If you want the fish to survive, you need to have a certain amount of oxygen.

ROMO: Tom Bradaville led the crusade for the legislation. He's a grey-haired, serious man who doesn't find anything cute or funny about the so-called soap smugglers. Hands stuffed deep into his pockets just a few feet away from Spokane Falls, he explains how low-phosphorus soap helps fish life.

Mr. BRADAVILLE: Phosphorus has caused tremendous algae growths in some of the lakes which, when the allergy dies, it decomposes, consuming the oxygen.

ROMO: And killing the fish. It's still early, but Bradaville claims that eco-friendly soap has reduced phosphorus levels in the nearby water plant by 14 percent. He looks out onto the thunderous and gushing river and shakes his head. He'd rather believe that there are more people like him concerned about the fish than Pat Dalton, who has finally found her way to a Safeway in Idaho.

Anonymous ID: c14b7d Sept. 25, 2024, 9:25 p.m. No.21658966   🗄️.is 🔗kun

>>21658898

 

>>21658963 cont

Ms. DALTON: Bubble bandits come through here.

(Soundbite of laughter)

ROMO: She's got the goods in hand: a box of lemon-scent Cascade with extra shine.

Unidentified Woman: Hi, there.

Ms. DALTON: Hi. How are you doing today?

ROMO: The transaction is quick and totally uneventful. So other than the drive and maybe a guilty conscience, what is there to stop people like Pat? It turns out, not much. Here's Officer Suzanne Mann of the Spokane PD.

Officer SUZANNE MANN (Spokane Police Department): I don't have the ability to enforce it. It's not a criminal act. It's a civil act.

ROMO: But even if she could, would she enforce it? Probably not, based on how her dishes have been turning out.

Ms. MANN: Personally, they look like crap.

ROMO: And while as an officer of the law, she won't admit to buying contraband for herself, she does admit to trafficking the stuff.

Ms. MANN: I pick it up from my daughter and my mom.

ROMO: Ultimately though, all of the driving back and forth and the surreptitious trading of high-phosphate detergents will likely come to an end by July of 2010. That's when a number of other states will enact similar legislation. There's even a bill on Capitol Hill that would impose a nationwide ban, which is why the pressure is on for soap manufacturers. The Soap and Detergent Association, which initially fought bans, have now embraced the greener guidelines.

The Washington ban just came too soon, it says. But the industry will be ready for 2010. In the meantime, the river of contraband soap will continue to flow into Spokane County, one minivan load at a time.

For NPR News, I'm Vanessa Romo.

Anonymous ID: c14b7d Sept. 25, 2024, 9:30 p.m. No.21658981   🗄️.is 🔗kun   >>8987 >>8996

>>21658898 they took away all the phospates

 

CALGON TAKE ME AWAY

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCRGjpf31ks

 

Not to be confused with Calgon (water softener).

Domestos

 

Product type Bath and beauty

Owner PDC Brands

Country United States

Introduced 1930; 94 years ago

Previous owners Calgon, Inc.

Merck & Co.

Website www.takemeaway.com

Calgon is an American brand of bath and beauty products, owned by PDC Brands.

 

Early history

The original product consisted of powdered sodium hexametaphosphate (amorphous sodium polyphosphate), which, in water, would complex with ambient calcium ions and certain other cations—preventing formation of unwanted salts and interference by those cations with the actions of soap or other detergents. Its name, a portmanteau derived from the phrase "calcium gone",[1] was originally promoted for general use in bathing and cleaning. It gave rise to derivative products which have diverged from the original composition. Today, Calgon water softener contains the active ingredient sodium citrate,[2] and the now discontinued powder used zeolite and polycarboxylate, all of which are less problematic in wastewater treatment than phosphates.