I'm sure you're able to get the point of [/quote]
When making accusations of false doctrine without delineating what that is, specifically, it's false accusation on your part.
Typical in the world of people who like to threaten other people using scripture.
[You]There is no such thing as sin, i.e. being without.[/quote]
Opposite of your first claim, and if revised, agreed.
[You]
He [satan] was/is a cherub angel who fell. He wanted to be God's #1 right hand guy and could not accept Jesus as his "boss".
1PS[/quote]
Typical christian fairytale trotted out, mainly by the freewill sects.
Satan was never a holy angel gone south by bad behavior. Jesus tells us in John 8:44 the devil was a liar from the beginning and the father of all lies.
Ezk 28:15 is often cited to claim satan was "perfect" but those who claim this forget the term "in thy ways." Satan, a perfect DEVIL. Perfect in his own devilish ways.
Paul described very accurately that the sin that was in his own flesh was "no longer I" and that evil was present with him. Romans 7:17-21.
The sin in all people's flesh and the evil present with them is never obedient, faithful, blessed, under Grace, overlooked or forgiven. None of these typical types of pseudo christian claims are truthful. Such claims are all lies.
God in Christ is in fact the enemy of all people's evil present and indwelling sin. However christians are not very fond of recognizing this aspect of God in Christ, applied personally. They prefer to cover up their sin and pretend it's not there, internally. Then again that is exactly what evil and sin within "all" does. Rather than "expose" these facts about their "internal self" they hide it and drape themselves in hypocrisy and lies, thereby proving their own slaveship to the reality of evil and sin facts that assuredly apply to them (and everyone else.)
When it comes to internal evil present and indwelling sin, every person is in fact on "equal ground" in a bad way.
It's also why God is the respecter of NO PERSON.
I am not a Christian
That about sums it up.
Angels are messengers. There are both holy and wicked/devil messengers.
In John 8:44 Jesus said the devil was a murderer from the beginning. One might logically read that as being the devils beginning since that is the subject being addressed.
We don't learn to be sinful. Sin indwells our flesh and evil is present within us. Romans 7. Sin is also of the devil(s) who sins IN MAN.
Jesus addresses "defiling" as "evil thoughts" that are against the Law.
Religious pharisees still lie and claim a sin is only the "external act." This is not true whatsoever. But such lies originate with the devil in any case so I don't blame the deceived, but the deceiver who turns religious people into lying hypocrites about "their" sins.
We can study the scriptures all we want and that will never make anyone sinless, not even for a nanosecond.
Sin is a progression from thought to word to deed. In deed one is a full blown external slave of the devil.
Jesus loves all mankind and hates all devilkind. Since these two parties are walking in the same pair of shoes it will remain disingenuous to see it only one way or the other.
Not interested in liars who think they can "keep the Law." Their internals are defiled regardless as are the internals of ALL mankind.
Act sinless and obedient all you please. It won't change the fact that evil internally present never obeys. NO ONE IS "LEGALLY OBEDIENT" in their entirety, ever, other than God Himself in the flesh.
Reincarnation is not a Biblical presentation unless we're talking about devils who occupy new flesh once their old hangout in man dies. There's your Biblical reincarnation.
(You)
The entirety of Christ's teachings are about the permanence of the soul, reincarnation, and ever lasting life.[/quote]
I have no issues with people having eternal life. What form that takes "eternally" is subject to questions, but not openly revealed or seen, at present. Speculate all you want, however the notions that we, as people, continue to reincarnate on earth is NOT a presentation of Jesus or the Bible.
Thee resurrection described in 1 Cor. 15 bears no resemblance whatsoever to another life in the flesh on earth (as we know it currently). It is the putting of of corruption, dishonor and mortality and made fully part of the Body of Christ. But what that is none of us know entirely, currently.
Currently we are described as "dead" and our "life" is hidden from us:
Colossians 3:3
For YE ARE DEAD, and YOUR LIFE IS HID with Christ in God.
Pointless to make a stand for current human body state type reincarnation as it doesn't exist in the Bible.
What does exist in the Bible is that unseen adverse agents called "devils" do take up habitation in humans after their flesh hosts die. Which is an adequate way to somewhat understand some strange associated events that we see from time to time ala Bridey Murphy for example, and many others similar. The scriptures do testify of this kind of reincarnation, of evil liars that are not mankind but exist with mankind.
I find this aspect of scripture quite fascinating.
You: The knowledge of good and evil, which man obtains by going into evil via his sins and turning his back on the Laws of God due to some religious writings that allows the follower faith without works such as Christianity, is far removed from the true likeness of God which he would have attained by avoiding sin as Jesus demonstrated. [/quote]
It's entirely obvious that you continue to "miss the mark/point" in this exchange.
The law is for the lawless and for sinners. 1 Tim. 1:9. Everyone is a sinner, period.
And guess what? The DEVIL(s) are also 'sinners.' 1 John 3:8. The law is also against "them" and they are "in man."
Your lack of ability to grasp this scriptural fact and factor this into the equation is because not only you, but ALL have the same internal affliction of EVIL PRESENT:
Matt. 15:19-20, Mark 7:21-23, Matt. 5:28, Romans 7:21.
Here's news for ya. Your "evil present" doesn't OBEY THE LAW no matter how hard you claim it to be so. Never has. Never will.
Evil present however is a well practiced liar, deceiver and hypocrite. IT certainly can not "tell the truth," particularly if IT had to fess up that sin is actually of the DEVIL and that fact has to be applied "personally."
The scriptures speak to TWO entirely different parties IN MAN, simultaneously. One party, mankind, God in Christ is for and loves. The other, God hates and resists/arouses.
That's kinda why it can be difficult to understand sometimes and also speaks to why divisions come where the Word is sown, because Satan DOES ENTER the hearts of MAN. Mark 4:15, Acts 26:18, Romans 11:8, Romans 11:32, 2 Cor. 3:14, 2 Cor. 4:4, 2 Cor. 12:7, Eph. 2:2, 2 Tim. 2:20-21.
It gets even more interesting when "believers" can't seem to grasp this simple TWO PARTY principle that the scriptures present, and DENY that they have the same internal problems with EVIL PRESENT as everyone else.
Romans 3:9
What then? ARE WE BETTER THAN THEY? NO, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Paul claimed to be the chief of sinners AFTER salvation. Now there was a man IN TRUTH! Certainly not the typical religious LIAR and POSER. 1 Tim. 1:15
So the "follow the law" to be better people really are not paying attention. The law actually "actuates" and "empowers" sin. 1 Cor. 15:56, Romans 7:11-13.
So why do we uphold the Law? Yes, I am actually FOR the law, as described and defined by Paul in Romans 13:8-10. THIS is why I believe ALL PEOPLE are saved in the end. That is as much LOVE as one can expend to another, to believe they HAVE eternal life with God in Christ.
Nevertheless I'm not interested in being a LIAR and HYPOCRITE, falsely thinking, promoting and conveying that my own EVIL PRESENT is obedient to anything regarding God in Christ.
Get it yet?
It's not helping your cause to mix resurrection with reincarnation. They are not the same subjects whatsoever.
Oh look! Legitimate questioning. Imagine that? Isn't that what normal people do, particularly here?
Question everything. Reasoning with God through engagement with scripture is quite a fascinating undertaking, once engaged.
Answers do arrive, most often by observation and tending to business. IF you think you've figured things out, it's very often a dead end for the mind. Not easy to continue to "walk" in faith, by faith.
I'm comfortable for example to know that God is in charge of "everything" and that "everything" serves The Greater. Even confusions. Even imaginations. Even RESISTANCE and OPPOSITIONs. And at the same time, it's unsettling. Comfortable and unsettling.
God actually does love the world (the infamous John 3:16 that people put on posters in the end zone stands at football games by Baptist "closers for Jesus") and at the same time God also HATES the world and is the enemy of anyone who loves the world. James 4:4
From a mind position, we can about sum up every form of our own thoughts if we range from eternal life and Perfection (which none of us really have a clue about in total) and absolute darkness, hatred and evil.
Everything else is in between.
So, in the beginning, God commanded LIGHT to shine from DARKNESS. We are all comprised of BOTH, in the allegorical senses. Though neither in the absolute senses of the terms.
IF we think we or others are only one or the other, it's probably missing the point.
So what does the Word of God really do? It is a discernment, a reflection, a study of our own thoughts and hearts, which range between the extreme's.
What have the majority of believers actually reflected from the Light of the Word? That the majority of other people will burn alive forever.
That is in fact a reflection of evil, hypocrisy and darkness, within themselves. I avoid such reflectors. They have dead ended in their own darkness. But in that reflection they have also been exposed and revealed as a marker and warning to us.
It's much more enlightening to think that God loves and saves all of mankind from our enemies, eventually. That would be the devil and his messengers, our enemies.
And simultaneously, God ultimately destroys and burns alive forever, our enemies, the devil and his messengers.
The difficulty in sorting through the pieces is that every person is actually comprised of BOTH. A child of God and a devil(s) in their flesh.
This sight makes life extremely interesting, to see which of the two bob to the surface and how they are revealed. Quite often in alternating fashions.
Positive and negative. It's what reality is made of. Plug in! See what happens. The "revealings" of Jesus provide the two poles, to plug in and engage.
Jesus actually said to the devil, that man will LIVE by every Word of God. Why then does man see others of mankind burning alive forever in torture? Is that LIFE? No.
There is the proverbial other side of the coin also. That burning alive forever also applies to "us." To that "darkness" we, temporal life, are all planted into.
We can then take a scripture such as this one:
Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
A BLINDED person, in darkness, will automatically reject the above scripture as NOT APPLICABLE to "them." A believer in The Light of Christ will see LIFE in that scripture, in anticipation of the permanent dispelling of our own DARKNESS.
Get it? We, as mankind, will LIVE by that scripture. Every Word of it. And the DARKNESS is us, will NOT.
I get what you are saying.
So, does anyone find it interesting that the reflection phenom of almost every "fervent" christian is that other people will burn alive forever in hell (or be eternally anihilated, take yer pick)???
WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN???
Bible factoid:
Not a single named person is said to be going to eternal burning hell NOR is there a single named person even threatened with such a fate in the entire B I B L E. There is no actual scriptural evidence of this in the B I B L E.
There IS ample scriptural evidence that the DEVIL AND HIS MESSENGERS will suffer that fate, but NOT mankind.
It is also interesting that Muslims (who theoretically claim the first 5 books of the conventional OT-the Pentatuch) as part of their religious gig (unverified-no sauce) also believe similarly, that people who are not "like them" in their beliefs will burn in hell.
So WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN?
The reality is this reflection from "within" them all is a reflection of EVIL in mankind. A person can not HATE another person any more than this. It is an expression of the most vile hatred available from one to another.
And that my discerning friends or foes, is the lesson that is revealed by picking up Gods Words. The hatred within is REVEALED and EXPOSED.
It is quite easy to believe in eternal damnation and torture in fire for the DEVIL and his messengers. That much is a given.
But in the B I B L E these parties, mankind and devilkind are presented as OVERLAPPED, two entities in what we typically perceive as only "individuals". This B I B L E factoid means that the damnation scriptures DO apply to "us" but "us" is not just "me or you" as individuals, Biblically speaking.
The scriptures DO present that 'SATAN' does enter our hearts, but is not "me or you."
To understand, we, all, as children of God, have to put on our STEREO HEADPHONES and listen to TWO narratives.
One narrative is of Gods Love in Christ to all of us as humanity. And the other side of the coin is Gods HATRED of the devil.
Where it gets real interesting is that God Himself MADE the devil and his messengers and BOUND US to them in this present life.
In this state, we are in fact quite helpless. Religious people think they can dodge the fact that they are sinners and that their own sin and evil present are off the hook. But this is never the case.
Evil present is a reality. Any casual glance at humanity reveals this fact, easily. We just don't like to see it as it is.
Not saying there is not good and human love either. There is both. There is a "good" conscience and an "evil" conscience within everyone.
The B I B L E does not PIN the evil conscience upon us as people, but upon THE DEVIL and his messengers who have influence and exertion over the FLESH.
Think of Solomon's Wisdom in cutting the baby in half, and you'll get the ALLEGORICAL picture of the entirety of the scriptures.
That baby is you.
The Sword of God, His Word, is meant to DIVIDE these two parties. What we have presently is the revealing and exposure.
The Promise of the scriptures is our eventual release from this condition.
In the "MEAN"time, we all suffer to one extent or another.
When are you going to fess up LIKE PAUL did and say you have evil present with you and that "your sin" is of the devil, just like everyone else's?
Paul: Romans 7:17-21 (sin in his flesh-not him- and evil present with him)
Paul: 2 Cor. 12:7 (a devil in his own flesh)
Paul: 1 Tim. 1:15 The chief of sinners after salvation
Paul was extremely honest.
Most believers are blatant liars by simple comparison.
But here's the kicker, you see:
The DEVIL can not "TELL THE TRUTH."
The truths that Paul spoke can only be spoken by a PERSON IN TRUTH. If the DEVIL is in control of the narrative, the scriptural truth will not and can not FLOW OUT from them.
They will instead DENY that they have internal evil present within them. They will DENY their own sin thoughts are EVIL and OF THE DEVIL.
And in conventional christianity or any number of its offshoots and sects, there will be all kinds of various shenanigans to 'get the adherents' off the hook on these subjects.
Anything but the facts, right?
Oh yeah, you are so special.
Paul didn't say he was one bit better than the most vile and common sinner.
In fact he claimed to be WORSE.
I really like that guy. He didn't bullshit me like most of you religious charlatans do.
The last persons in the world any person should believe are these a**clowns who dress up in silk nightgowns with purple hoisery around their necks and big pointy hats with crosses and gold and all kinds of other religious paraphernalia on them that stand behind a pulpit and pontificate how everything they say is "beyond questioning" and authoritative and from God.
The guy you should listen to is PAUL and the other Apostles. IF you really READ them, they didn't pull any punches. They knew their state, internally. They had evil present within them AND SAID SO. They said their own sins were OF THE DEVIL.
It just doesn't get any more honest than that, really. But people don't like to hear that stuff. So they basically IGNORE it.
God has a habit of turning up the volume on these matters from time to time, just to make that reality hit home.
Ultimately, the Goal is the SHAKE these two parties, mankind and devilkind, apart. That's what happens at thee end.
An "earthquake" that splits the "world" of mankind. Yes, it's allegorical, to our internals.
But we can't ask for God to get rid of what we have, if we claim we don't have the problem.
The RIDDING will be collective, for everyone. And the "shaking" is going to be a bitch. Are you seeing it yet? Seriously? Pay attention.
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;
AND THEN SHALL THE END COME.
The end of what???
The END of the devil and his messengers.
If you don't notice, look within. That's where the earthquake comes.
You: I don't believe God would condemn any of his creation to eternal damnation.[/quote]
I might observe that evil is a created but temporal power described to us as "the devil and his messengers". The reality of negative forces are "evil thoughts." and spiritual blindness/slumber. This rightfully diminishes the devil and his messengers "role."
As far as eternal torture in hell, could be that these negative personified spiritual forces have an eventual anti-heaven and that good and Perfect things are in fact a torture to these negative forces. Rev. 14:10-11
You: I agree, that like children that are fighting and you have to separate and send to different corners of the room, in order to protect his creation [/quote]
Separation will not and should not equate to denial and lying. That's where I draw the line. When we are suckered into lying and hypocrisy about our "current state" we've been somewhat spiritually neutered and deceived by "them." Being honest is exceptionally important. The first warning Jesus gave us as His disciples is to beware of hypocrisy, (Luke 12:1, Matt. 7:5). The majority of believers fall and fail in this arena, thinking themselves immune and exempt from sin and it's consequences "in Jesus Name," of course. This is never the case. We should actually WELCOME Gods Adverse Judgments personally. Judgment falls first on the house of God, always. It is a sign of God being with us, (1 Pet. 4:17). I have witnessed this personally and in "the churches" many many times. Housecleaning.
You: You can go up or down. Your choice. You earn it.[/quote]
No form of choices will move us past the present reality of sin indwelling the flesh, evil present withIN us, and our current factual planting in weakness, corruption and dishonor, (Romans 7, 1 Cor. 15:42-50). When failing to engage these present realities "in Truth" for ourselves or others, we arrive only at more deceptions and are in fact "enslaved" by the negative forces by dishonesty and hypocrisy.
You: I don't actually believe the Adversaries even consider their status of being as damnation.[/quote]
They know it's coming. Matt 8:29, but still twisted the fact by lying about it.
You: To us the separation from the One and permeation of evil and the intolerable might seem like damnation, but to sadomasochist demonic entities relishing in apostasy? It might seem like heaven to them. [/quote]
Brilliant deduction. See above. Hell however is NOT for people, but devils.
You: If this is the case, then the One provides what each one desires to the fullness of their being. This battleground, where we can mix and interact, is the membrane between two distinct realities. It is meant to pull all of us and all those Adversarial to the Self, closer to the One. [/quote]
I do expect more arousal, empowerment on both sides of the ledgers, and definitions, dividing lines between the parties as we draw closer to 'thee end.'
You: To your other points, yes humans can become infested with demonic entities. Yes humans can adopt the principles of the Adversary (I hate to use the word Devil, because it does not convey reality; Satan i.e. the enemy/adversary is much closer to the truth). In adopting these principles they allow the unseen to grow and feed off of them. They permeate the reality surrounding them with these entities and energy. [/quote]
Points taken. Paul employed and evoked the power of the adversary. I also agree that Satan and his are, in a strange way, blockers to God, intentionally Divinely employed. The "sum" of wisdom is said to be "held" by Satan. Ezk. 28:12. God also says He will give us "the treasures of darkness." There are matters to be learned, Isa. 45:3. Having evil "aroused" before us is one of those Divine grantings. When Jesus walked among the people, devils cried out from withIN them. Same things still happen today amongst His disciples, in Truth.
You: We are capable of both. - It is up to us, through free will, to chose.[/quote]
We are "forced" into an adversarial state of existence. Gal. 5:17.
>-evil is a created but temporal power described to us as "the devil and his messengers".
You: Yes, I agree entirely.[/quote]
Maybe you do. Maybe not. Not so sure you recognize the internal evil that all have and are bound to as entities other than the person. Which is an integral part of the observations. We don't make "CHOICES" for the devil and his messengers. They do what they do. The scriptural list of what they do is quite lengthy. So YOU may agree, but that agreement does not and can not extend to their agreement and THEY are part of the equations of us all. Dig?
In any cases of sights we might understand that the devil(s) can NOT agree or concede to what they do "IN MAN" because that would be telling the truth of the matters and they can't tell the truth (John 8:44) So obfuscation and blaming MANKIND for SIN (i.e. via and avenue of CHOICE is a DEVIL biggie) is always their eventual end game. They have no other options because they're LIARS.
>-Being honest is exceptionally important.
You: Yes. Yes. Yes. We are not perfect and as long as we are present in this reality in its current state, we are subject to "sin indwelling the flesh."[/quote]
You: I think choices and TIME, will lead us out of this reality. After all, this is the second coming of Christ? Is it not? The defeat of death and sin? A new spiritual existence and reality when matter gives way to the spiritual? 1 Cor 15[/quote]
Thee end game comes when the devil and his messengers are sent away to the flames. Matt. 25. Our choices do not make that happen.
>They know it's coming. Matt 8:29, but still twisted the fact by lying about it.
You: They are already "damned" living in their own "heaven" which we would consider "hell."[/quote]
True on the devil and his messengers already judged and condemned. What remains is the reality of their "death sentence" in the LOF. I could get into several tangents here as to how that may come about, but it's speculation. I don't hold any particular end time theories other than the bottom line is the destruction of the devil and his messengers and NOT mankind in eternal hell.←-emph. on latter, important.
>We are "forced" into an adversarial state of existence.
You: It's not "forced." It's a simple extension of logical reality. You cannot have wishes, if you cannot have free will. You cannot have wishes and desires NOT be WILL, without a distinction between the Spirit and Flesh. Without the Flesh your desires instantly become your WILL and your WILL is manifestation. [/quote]
There is more than just "our will" going on. See above.
The notion that "YOU" create these things is, to my ears, just another DEVIL slant to blame MANKIND. Sorry to call the YOU that ain't YOU out on it.
No offense to the child of God meant, to you or any other person. But that's not all that's going on. There is evil present and indwelling sin to account for, which IS in fact DEMONIC.
No amounts of mankinds choices will make anyone sinless until the reality of 1 Cor. 15 arrives. And that is quite altogether Gods Gig, Alone.
You: Again - what and What do you THINK about Beelzebub, as exposed and dealt with by Jesus in the Essene Gospel of Peace? [/quote]
I think it's an illegitimate cheap aftermarket knockoff without merits other than some bad copy catting of some broad things a lot of believers could partial agree on or at least speculate about.
Not the real thing.
You: Absolutely not. There is no free will in your reality, if this is what you believe.[/quote]
No person free wills themselves past the internal reality of the internal, adverse to the Spirit will of evil present and indwelling sin, which is a will that is not "ours" as children of God.
You: The Self creates all things.[/quote]
lol. You're a deceived pawn already expressed and exposed in that statement. But it's been apparent from the start. Nothing new.
You: You must perfect your soul [/quote]
There is only One, Perfect in the Eternally Perfect sense of the term.
There are perfect devils, but then again, they are perfect in DEVIL WAYS. Perfect applied to anyone or anything else when compared to Eternally Perfect God are vastly different subjects.
You: Is this not the teaching of Christ? That we as sinners are all forgiven through the grace of God? We must only accept the help of the Father. [/quote]
Gods children are forgiven. Evil and indwelling sin which is DEMONIC is not and is never forgiven.
Two opposite and opposing sights, BOTH TRUE, walk in what is falsely perceived as an individual. Paul elaborates on this in Romans 7:17-21 and 2 Cor. 12:7 for himself, as does John in 1 John 3:8 for examples. And more broadly as applied to all mankind in Romans 9:18-24, 2 Tim. 2:20-21 for examples.
The short lesson is that mankind will LIVE by every Word of God, Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4. And the devils will NOT. They have the opposite fate in store. Matt. 25
You: There you go again, with your insanity and double standards. Everyone has to BURN BURN BURN. Am I right? [/quote]
I really enjoy taking positions from the scriptures.
Talking about the imaginations of others really ain't that, is it?
Scripturally proving all people are saved isn't enough for you? You want to save all devils (and who knows what else) too?
Prove it from the scriptures. (hint-it ain't in the dox)
And before you get cute with it, there are specific exceptions to the common scriptural citings that some use to justify their imaginations.
Oh, and fwiw the KJV isn't really known as corrupted and mistranslated. It's kinda the gold standard that most Bible aficionados tend to cite with engaging.
Anyone can obtain almost any version of the Bible, for FREE, online. Take yer pick.
The only version that's important for newbies is the version you can actually read and do read. There is a noted side effect that happens when people "try" to read the Bible. Many many find that they can not read it. They'll get through half a page or a few pages, and realize that they are not "getting it" and that's the end of their experiment. The Bible has an innate tendency to put the readers into instant drowsiness. <- This is a spiritual principle that's taught in the Bible many times in many ways and examples. And yes, it is very real.
The only suggestion is to start with the New Testament. Yes, we start at the end of the book to understand the beginning of the book. Jesus and all of his Apostles taught directly from the Old Testament, as obviously there was no New Testament when they lived.
The New Testament is the Old Testament, revealed.
Because the entirety of the scriptures, the recordings, are primarily based on parables and allegories regarding our own internal realities, it can be very difficult to "break into." It is a personal challenge, and really, one has to almost be "called into it," by God in Christ, to have their interest flamed to do so. Otherwise they will simply lose interest, fast.
As a side note, the reflections from the readers about the book vary immensely. I would venture that no 2 readers will read alike or think alike in the final analysis. There will be a different reflection from each reader, and each readers reflections can also change dramatically, over time, the more they expose themselves to studies. Many readers who are obsessed with the scriptures can find almost endless, lifetime fascinations therein, and study that document for a lifetime. I've clocked nearly 4 decades in one book. How crazy is that? Part of the reason is that there is also a book written within the book that is not even recorded. It must be "code cracked" through allegories, the methodology the Apostles employed. Which is part of why it's so utterly fascinating.
And, progressively, it gets more intense, when the readers realize that the whole world presently revolves around the principles therein, even when people don't see or recognize it.
It's been said that when we study it, at some point we realize it's also studying US, actively.
Christians are sometimes figuratively shown as a fish symbol. I'd speculate because we've been HOOKED or NETTED by Jesus and there is no escape, nor do we want an escape. Even ex believers say Jesus' Words never really "let them go." They still obsess over it, even in active resistance to the same Words.
Kinda weird sometimes. The "called fo God" are deemed, peculiar people. Deut. 26:18, Psalm 135: 4, Titus 2:14, 1 Peter 2:9, etc. etc.
Everyone I've met in the faith, is assuredly that:
Peculiar. In it's truest sense, unique, individuals. No two exactly alike.
What happens when the law is upheld?
Romans 7:
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that ->sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.<-
Why was Israel perpetually judged and eventually scattered? See above.
Now, what happens when the Spiritual Law is upheld:
Romans 13:
8 Owe no man any thing, but to ->love one another<-: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, ->Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.<-
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore ->love is the fulfilling of the law.<-
Fact: The majority of so called christians wind up promoting that nearly all others who do not believe "like them" will burn alive forever in hell. THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what the Spiritual Law says. Imagine that?
Reconcile: When Gods Word is upheld, the enemies of mankind, in our own hearts, is openly revealed.
Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, ->where the word is sown;<- but when they have heard, ->Satan cometh immediately,<- and taketh away the word that was sown ->in their hearts.<-
It's a VERY REAL principle involved with the above, openly evidenced.
The devil, Satan and his own, are not interested in following the law or loving our neighbors as ourselves, but the EXACT OPPOSITE does transpire IN MAN, particularly in those who claim to believe. They claim one thing but really they LIE and believe the EXACT OPPOSITE.
Yeah, real. No joke.
Any believer who thinks their "whole package" of what they are cooperates with God in Christ or is "legally obedient" is BLIND to the reality of evil present within themselves, evidenced by "evil thoughts" there in their own heads.
Such are all actively involved in hypocrisy and coverup of their internal reality. But, that internal reality is not JUST THEM. Spiritual reality shows they are PAWNS of their EVIL PRESENT and the result is lies and hypocrisy.
Romans 11:
32 For ->God has bound everyone over to disobedience<- so that he may have mercy on them all.
Disobedience in the form of evil thoughts is an internal fact, and is in fact DEMONIC:
Eph 2:
2 Wherein in time past ->ye walked<- according to the course of this world, ->according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit<- that now worketh in the children ->of disobedience:<-
Anyone who claims their evil present, their indwelling sin is either legally obedient or loves their neighbors is in fact a deceived lying hypocrite who can't speak truthfully.
Takeaway: It's not them who is lying. They are bound internally to LIARS who are not them.
Scripture 101.
Can you imagine anyone in religious authority saying they have evil present within themselves, evil thoughts, a devil in their own flesh and are the chief of sinners after salvation or that their "active sin" was triggered by the laws of God to resist within them and that it is DEMONIC, LIKE PAUL DID?! Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:17-21, Romans 7:25, 2 Cor. 12:7, 1 Tim. 1:15
Fat chance I say. Fat chance. Readers are in fact actively BLINDED by all of the above scriptures and openly IGNORE them, as if they are not even there to be read.
An open testimony to the real power that Satan and his own has over the hearts of mankind.
Our own flesh is in active resistance to the Spirit of God in Christ and vice versa, at ALL TIMES. Gal. 5:17
Anyone who sez the above isn't so isn't paying attention. and probably can't, because THEY are not dominant over their own internal adversary(s). They are asleep at the wheel. Romans 13:11-12
1 John 3:
8 He that committeth ->sin is of the devil;<- for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Matthew 5:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
People, by the nature of evil present within, always try to avoid the fact of evil present within, let it/themselves off the hook, lie about it, cover it up, deceive themselves and others and especially will deny that evil present is DEMONIC and not them.
In scriptural reality, it is not the people, but the demonic influences upon their minds and hearts that does all of the above, and more.
The evil present within all is NEVER legally obedient, ever.
The devils can not be honest or speak honestly.
It's not possible.
A free man in Christ can speak the truth, and will lament, and rightfully hate his own life, because of the scriptural fact of evil present, which is DEMONIC.
Ecclesiastes 2:17
Therefore I hated life; because the work that is wrought under the sun is grievous unto me: for ->all is vanity and vexation of spirit.<-
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, AND HATE NOT his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his OWN LIFE also, ->he cannot be my disciple.<-
John 12:25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
The measure of a disciple in Christ, is first, honesty. A rare commodity in today's world of liars, hypocrites and deceivers.
Not one person that came out of Egypt with Moses followed the law. No, not one.
Every person 20 and older who came out of Egypt with Moses, with 2 exceptions, died in the desert because of unbelief. And this, after seeing all the miracles that God had wrought, with their own eyes. How much less did their progeny believe?
Nevertheless, ALL OF ISRAEL shall be saved, even those who were enemies of the Gospel. Romans 11:26.
WHY? Because their sin, was like the sin of all.
DEMONIC. God loves Israel and all people. And puts sin rightfully upon the DEVIL in the flesh of mankind.
There is God's Divide. Every person, in the Spiritual senses, gets cut in HALF with the Sword of Gods Word. Whether they believe or not. Gods child is saved (all people) and all devils are and remain condemned and eventually suffer their fate of the LOF.
It was the devils in mankind that killed Jesus, the spotless Lamb of God, and therefore sealed their fate.
Here we get a glimpse of Spiritual reality, if we pay attention. Those who nailed Jesus to His Cross were forgiven, "for they know not what they do."
But the devils who were upon those people, in their flesh, are still here, active within mankind. And will see Him when He returns:
Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and ->they also which pierced him:<- and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
At the end of the book, the TABLES get TURNED upon our wicked spiritual adversaries.
Be ready, watch and pray. The time for Gods Revenge is "at hand."
When the DOOR opens, only HALF OF US is getting through. The other will be LOCKED OUT and FALL in judgments.
Rev. 18:
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded YOU, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
[You] You are nowhere near understanding how the book of Romans applies to the world today. Nobody is. The reason is because it was written in the "typical of all Scripture" prose of the God that "exists to exist again" (I am that I am) - meaning it had application and validity for a time past, and has another "time" yet to be understood in a whole other paradigm (when the points of it then apply in similar ways but to very different entities).[/quote]
The Words of God haven't changed. Scripture engages to principal parties, entirely different and separate entities, man and devils, in the same body. It's understandable why people don't get it, because they have resistance, internally, to the narratives. That internal resistance in the form of evil/adverse/resisting to God thoughts, indwelling sin is real.
Everyone KNOWS that this is true as far as having to deal with the adverse internal narratives.
Few understand how scripture explains this internal reality. Most naturally think "it's just me." From scriptures perspectives, it's not.
I can appreciate that people are naturally drawn to only the "good stuff" and ignore the other side of the equations or try to foist the bad stuff onto other people. It's a little game that internal evil plays within them.
Paul's teaching in Romans is secure. No one is righteous, no not one. No one's evil present and indwelling sin obeys, is legally obedient or loves their neighbors as themselves. Evil present and indwelling sin never has been faithful, blessed, or obtains Gods Mercy in Christ. These observations taught by Paul haven't changed from day 1 of man.
Believers can throw the peace and love blanket over indwelling sin and evil present all they please. The methodology instantly marks dishonesty, hypocrisy and ignorance.
Paul taught directly from Gods Words (the Words of Christ) from the Old Testament, which Words Jesus taught will never pass away. It's not changing based on relevance of time or history.
The law(s), all of them, are not one bit different, one law to another. Paul taught the entirety of the law is spiritual, and the summation of every law is to love our neighbors. Romans 13:8-10
But Paul also taught that evil present can't "do that" no matter what people claim. And that evil present and indwelling sin is exposed, empowered, aroused and condemned by those same laws.
The law is spiritual. Evil resists law. Evil remains opposed to law, regardless of any claims external compliance.
Paul clearly understood that at the same time he upheld and loved the Word, the laws of God, and understood them as they are intended, and did good himself, EVIL PRESENT and INDWELLING SIN did not, resisted and denied those same Words of God, and remained present within him, present in the flesh.
None of this has changed. Good and Evil is the construct of every person, and Gods Word deals with both, appropriately, accordingly and in entirely opposing manners, to this day.
There is A TIME, at the end, when the tables are turned on the opposition party, the devil and his messengers who essentially control the bulk of spiritually blinded mankind, currently.
The fact of internal evil's control over mankind, which is scripturally presented as DEMONIC, particularly at our HEADS, our so called "leaders" is currently painstakingly obvious. And this also has been the case throughout history.
God does turn up the volume, frequently, just to show it. And we all gasp in horror at some of these showings, but few apply these showings as applicable to all of us.
When Gods Light is shed upon the opposition parties, it is common for the other party to first resist and oppose and to eventually become enraged, and to kill. Which is what transpired with Jesus and many if not all of His disciples and Apostles.
It's no joke.
Yes, God will bless an HONEST nation. But an honest nation knows they are all sinners, and guard against the collective actions of their own sins.
[You] your belief that MAN is evil exposes you. [/quote]
I'd suggest you aren't paying attention. God in Christ loves (and saves) all of mankind. God in Christ opposes and is in opposition to and remains in opposition to the internal evil that all mankind also have, which is demonic.
Not that complex. Mankind was never meant by God to take up permanent habitation in a wet pile of dust called a natural body in any case. That is merely "stage 1" of our present planting. 1 Cor. 15: 41-48, which is a natural body that is bound to internal spiritual disobedience, weakness, dishonor and corruption. This is the present condition of all of us.
There is a permanent transition for all people, when they leave their flesh, with evil present and indwelling sin therein, behind, in the dust, where it belongs.
None of us, by our individual or collective actions can force Gods Hands in these matters. The course has already been set.
1 Cor. 15:
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
I understand some of you are young, naive and ignorant of Gods Words and principles.
God in Christ saves you regardless of your evil present and indwelling sin because these things are demonic and of the devil. BUT the devils who deceive will not have that pleasure, and they get pissed when they and their actions IN MAN are exposed.
So I understand where the you who is not you is coming from.
No form of choices eliminates the internal reality of evil present and indwelling sin, which Paul termed "no longer I." Romans 7:17-21.
Trying to justify or provide cover for "no longer I" via choices doesn't work. Sorry.
And yes, God did create "all things" and "all powers" and "all entities" good and evil.
God can create any "thing" and not be that "thing" or any "thing" which He created.
Sorry to prick your bubble but the creation of choices by you or anyone else never eliminates evil present or indwelling sin as a present reality in the flesh. Your own internally resisting thoughts should tell you that much. Choose them away? Ain't gonna happen because those evil thoughts are DEMONIC and not "subject to" your choices.
Scriptural fact: Jesus said we have evil thoughts which DO DEFILE us. It's not a choice to not have them and they are not "optional" based on choices. Everyone has evil defiling thoughts. Matt. 15:19-20, Mark 7:21-23 and Matt. 5:28. There are NO EXCEPTIONS other than God in Christ, Himself, while in the flesh.
Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
God "created" EVIL, which is described as "a power," Hab. 2:9 precisely to demonstrate what His Mercy Is unto ALL. Romans 11:32.
Mankind has been placed UNDER EVIL for this reason. As a live exercise to understand Gods Mercy. There was no choice of man involved to have not not have evil present within them and no one "chooses it away."
Evil reacts in oppositions to God, always. That's the way God meant it to perform. And God will destroy that power of evil in the finality of the exercises of Divine Providence over "all things."
In the meantime, the puppets of evil will claim they don't have evil thoughts, or that "mankind" can and does eliminate "evil thoughts" via the exercise of choices.
It's only the evil power within themselves, deceiving them, claiming evil is not there.
What did the hypocrite say?
Luke 18:11
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ->God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.<-
God probably isn't very much interested in liars.
The truthful man is the recipient of Gods Mercy, because it's a fact of NEED for the honest man.
An honest person FEARS GOD, because they know God's Dealing adversely with their "evil present."
Don't shit yerself. It's ugly.
Every prophet of God was honest about their internal reality, and the internal reality of others, with evil present therein:
Isaiah 6:5
Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips:
These men spoke TRUTHFULLY. But evil never listens. It can't. Evil can only deceive. And it's quite good at deception and LIES.
Oh, look! A supreme court judge with EVIL THOUGHTS.
Imagine that?
Welcome to the internal reality of your fleshly judges.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/sotomayor-thought-hitting-scalia-baseball-bat-article-1.2835556
Scripture is amazingly consistent.
If we, by the Divine Gift of honesty, come to grips with the internal reality of evil present/indwelling sin and these things being of the devil, then we are led to understand this, for example, as an internal meal that we have been "fed."
Psalm 74:14
Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.
Scripture tells us who leviathan is, in the spiritual language employed therein:
Isaiah 27:1
In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish ->leviathan the<- piercing ->serpent,<- even ->leviathan that crooked serpent;<- and he shall slay ->the dragon-< that is in the sea.
Seems simple enough.
Regarding TIME, the term is singular in scriptures for an exact reason. As mankind we are and have been from the beginning, in the TIME, singular, of the devil and his messengers.
Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for ->the devil<- is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he ->hath<- but a short ->time.<-
Luke 4:5
And ->the devil,<- taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world ->in a moment of time.<-
Their "TIME" is short. They live in their "GENERATION," also singular tense:
Matthew 23:33
->Ye serpents, ye generation<- of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mankind on the other hand has TIMES, plural and generations, also plural.
In the scriptures we can read about time, times and the halving or dividing of time. This, in the language of the Spirit is the dividing of time/times. TIME comes to an end in Rev. 10:
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be ->TIME<- no longer:
What TIME should be obvious, to at least half of what we consider "us." The half that sees Spiritually in Truth.
The half time show will be interesting, to say the least. I hear it's warming up.
It's telling when people can't read:
Revelation 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, BABYLON the great IS fallen, IS fallen, and IS become the habitation of DEVILS, and the hold of EVERY FOUL SPIRIT, and a cage of EVERY unclean and HATEFUL BIRD.
We do not see "BABYLON" with flesh eyes. It is an internal matter, within every person.
IF the Kingdom of God is "WITHIN US" where then is "the other kingdom" that we battle?
ding ding ding…Mark 4:15
Luke 11:18
If SATAN also be divided against himself, how shall HIS KINGDOM stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
Luke 11:20
But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon YOU.
Definition of cast out:
-BE DEPRIVED OF the power and INFLUENCE he exercises in the world
Believers who "blame and accuse" Israel of the flesh or Jerusalem of the flesh or Rome of the flesh or the pope of the flesh are wasting their lives, looking at others when the real battle has always been:
WITHIN us.
Blaming and accusing other people will do no good, in THEE END. The Finger of God deals directly with our own "internal" enemies.
No Christian is fighting fleshly Israel or fleshly Rome or the fleshly pope or any number of other nonsensical external fleshly misdirected pointing.
Ephesians 6:
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand AGAINST wiles of THE DEVIL.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
This battle is personal, and within.
It ain't about 'all the other people or places.'
Never was.
Believers who think that thee end times is about the fall of Rome or Jerusalem or Hillary/Barrack or various ethnic groups have been personally neutered and taken out of the internal battle, blinded BY the evil present and indwelling sin WE ALL HAVE to engage. The MARK of a disciple of Christ is HATRED of these things that WE HAVE, personally.
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, AND HATE NOT his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and HIS OWN LIFE also, he CANNOT be my disciple.
Direct the hatred where it belongs, within, because that is where GOD DIRECTS IT unto YOU.
Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Luke 21:33
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
The Old Testament Law(s) and Words of the prophets are in fact the Words of Christ, speaking through them. 1 Peter 1:10-11
Anyone who seeks to diminish those Words, eradicate them, have them "not apply" to every person is a faker and a liar. In actuality these kinds of "resisting" "twisting" "diminishing" "eradicating" to the law and prophet actions are actions of the demonic influences within and upon all such voices. How long has the mainline been taught that the LAW is not for them? We'll hear thousands of slants upon this subject, all trying to "get us off the hook".
The VERDICT upon all mankind has already been spoken by God, and the VERDICT is GUILTY.
Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: ->that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.<-
Every mouth and all the world pretty well sums it up, huh?
Jesus told us all that man shall LIVE by Every Word of God. There, in every Word is LIFE to man. Even in the bad Words, there is LIFE because those Words are unto our spiritual adversaries in our own flesh.
Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4.
Our Heavenly Father is for REAL. No joke.
When Jesus speaks these Words to you, REJOICE, because it is His Word demanding our spiritual adversaries to DEPART from us:
Matthew 7:
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
How many believers have been falsely led to cower in fear of hearing these Words? Yet the same ones who fear do not realize they are GUILTY and commit INIQUITY. All are in fact sinners. God does not vacate judgment against sin/sinners. All are found, GUILTY.
Look at Paul, and ask yourself if he would rejoice at hearing "depart from me ye workers of iniquity"?
2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, ->there was given to me a thorn ->in the flesh, the messenger of Satan<- to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
No, it was not sickness or bad eyesight. IT WAS A DEVIL in Paul's flesh, plain and simple, openly stated. But we can put this open statement before religious people's eyes and they CAN'T SEE IT and will DENY this plain statement. They'll say, oh, that really doesn't mean Paul had a devil in his flesh. Sorry, yes, it does say exactly that.
Now stand Paul before Jesus' Words above and you'll HEAR it accurately. There would stand Paul and a devil, both listening.
Every Word of God is LIFE to MAN. And it is the OPPOSITE for the devil and his messengers.
When Jesus gathers the sheep and goats together, at the end, there is a sheep and a goat within every person therein gathered.
Just ask yourself if you only do sheep works at all times. If the answer is honestly, ->NO,<- then you have located the GOAT upon you as well.
When the devils are told to depart…rejoice!
Matthew 13:
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The WICKED are removed from WITHIN the righteous.
In the MEAN-TIME, we wait, in anticipation. This is our Hope, in the Gospel.
I expect things to get more than a little crazy, at thee end, THEIR END.