>>2969160

>>2966520 (moi)

It doesn't matter to me if you think God in Christ saving all people is a problem. [/quote]

[You) I really don't see it as a problem, it's actually a great relief to me. Thank you very much for doing that. The water is looking more clear to me now.[/quote]

When God Speaks in the scriptures, the speech is to TWO separate and distinct entities, the person and the captor in their mind, the resistor, the devil, the agent of spiritual sleep/slumber/darkness/sin/evil.

One, the person, God is for and in behalf of. The other Gods is against. What is said to the person does not apply to the devil(s) and even more, they are "forced" to resist in the person.

(You) I know there is something I am supposed to be doing, but I'm not sure quite what it is yet.[/quote]

Our burden is easy, our yoke, Light. We are to both love our neighbors as ourselves AND abide in sound and proper judgments, bearing our own vessel in honor, as much as is possible.

The world becomes a vastly more interesting place when we perceive and understand the challenges of the dark and invisible entity class. Once any believer perceives them, understand that they also perceive that we perceive them. The battle is ongoing, daily. It's quite fascinating and sometimes even frightening to behold, when "they" resist, openly, to your face. God will SHOW them by arousing them to resist. His Words arouse the darkness to resist. Mark 4:15, Romans 7, 1 Cor. 15:56

(You) What do you think of the gnostic/apocrypha texts? Secret book of John, gospel of Thomas, might as well ask about Enoch while I have you on the line.[/quote]

Any penman that handles the Cadence of God properly will be recognizable. Any who don't will also be recognizable. I read any penman with that in mind, if they are engaged in the subjects of God in Christ. I look for the "Mark" makers. That is the understanding of TWO vessels in the same lump, the person, and the resistor, the devil(s). This is the hallmark of Godly penmen.

(You) Also are you a proponent of the "some sections of the Bible have been altered" theory, or are you in the "straight KJV only baby" camp?[/quote]

I prefer the KJV because the cadence to the two party system has been more preserved. Other translations have gutted a lot of that distinction. Neverthless I use and quote from other translations if it suits the subject better. For example I like the NIV rendering of Romans 11:32 over the KJV because in that case, it's more succinct to our ears.

I was initially sparked to believe by reading the Living Bible. And was "saved" after reading the book of John in the ESV. John really hit me in the heart. Still does.

[quote] Also any tips on dealing with someone who inevitably say "Hey Leviticus says put fags to death! GTFO with your old fashioned religion blah blah blah"? [/quote]

The Law is a very deep subject. Again, understanding The Divine Cadence, it's much more fascinating. The Law, undoubtedly, is an ALLEGORY. Paul taught it that way. So did Jesus. In Gal. 4 the lives of Abraham, Sarah, Hagar and Ishmael were turned into ALLEGORY. An allegory of what? The TWO party system, applicable to ALL. If these sections regarding all the parties above are allegories, then the balance is, likewise. The allegories all REVOLVE around God speaking to the person and to devils in man. I could write volumes about these details. For example, Pharaoh(s) is/are actually allegories of the Great Dragon, Satan. Not that Pharaoh as whatever particular man was Satan, but that their words and actions are representative of their internal captor, Satan. Ezekiel 29:3 for reference.

Swine and shellfish laws have nothing to do with physical swine and shellfish. And stoning disobedient children at the gate have nothing to do with killing physical children with physical stones. We "stone" our "internal" enemies with the Word of God.

(You) I plan spreading the good news to people my age and I already know this will be the #1 issue…whether they are gay or not. I can deal with pretty much any other issue in the Bible except this.[/quote]

Every person on this planet has been internally bound with particular enemies (that are not them) that they really didn't have much choice about. The sins of gays or lesbians are no different than my own. They just happened to get a different chunk of internal dragon meat to digest than I did. God in Christ Loves every person, regardless, and SAVES THEM in the end. And their captors will face Divine Eternal Judgment in endless torment.

That being said, I will not celebrate the sins of any person, starting with my own. The slivers in their eye seem as specks in comparison to what I see in myself, if I am seeing correctly. If sin is of the devil, if Satan does enter the heart to steal, that does mean that every evil does exist within me. There is my LOG in EYE.

Get it?

>>3127872

Heaven forbid that the "Savior of the world" actually saves every person, huh? That would, like, make Jesus a Success. Can't be having that now can we?

The scriptures do present an eternal death, the second death in the form of permanent containment…for…the devil and his messengers.

Where are these entities located currently? Why, IN MANKIND. Divide there and see better. This fact is one of the most glaring and open facts in the New Testament Gospels. Yet people tend to either not see it or forget it. Especially when it comes to seeing their own sin is in fact "of the devil." 1 John 3:8

>>3140937

(You)

NO WHERE in the New Testament does this phrase exist. NO WHERE.[/quote]

Matthew 19:16

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Matthew 25:46

And these shall go away into EVERLASTING punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mark 3:29

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of ETERNAL damnation.

Revelation 14:

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be TORMENTED WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up FOR EVER AND EVER: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:14

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is THE SECOND DEATH.

Revelation 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is THE SECOND DEATH.

The above in CAPS are assuredly for THE DEVIL AND HIS MESSENGERS.

Give up on trying to save the devils, sin, death and evil.

God in Christ can and does save "all people."

The difficulty is the parties, man and devil, are currently walking in the same shoes. Readers "naturally" mistake what is for devils as being for "people" and vice versa.

>>3147222

No thing power or entity going into the infamous Lake of Fire is shown coming out.

To remove any thing power or entity would also potentially allow the return of hell, death, evil, sin, etc.

We are promised very certain things will be "no more."

Revelation 21:4

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain:

Why will this be so?

-FOR THE FORMER THINGS HAVE PASSED AWAY.

The only things being reincarnated presently are devils, who inhabit new bodies when their dead human hosts pass away. They move to another newly born human host. They have also been here from the beginning of mankind and have not yet "passed away."

Rev. 1:

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and THEY ALSO WHICH PIERCED HIM: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

The person's who nailed Jesus to the cross were forgiven. The "DEVILS" who owned those flesh bodies at the time are STILL HERE and will see Him when He returns. They were NOT FORGIVEN nor will they be.

>>3150145

>>3150145

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>>3150145

>>3150145

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>>3150145

>>3150145

Demons are not disembodied spirits of previous giant persons. They are devils, all sourced from the "father" of same, thee devil, Satan, the great dragon.

Giant human beings were simply a product of line breeding tall humans to tall humans, often "inbred." The same things are practiced today with dairy cattle for example, though not as often anymore because of genetic malformations. Line breeding can multiply genetic variations such as "height" and also replicate and multiply genetic PROBLEMS.

These malformations are even noted, such as 6 fingers, in the Bible. 2 Sam 21:20, 1 Chron 20:6

We know from Jesus that the devil has "children" from Jesus in john 8:44. If we understand a basic principle that the scriptures are formed around, that devil(s) and man occupy the same flesh we understand there are TWO SEPARATE AND DISTINCT PARTIES that constitute what we quite falsely believe is just an individual person. In John 8:44 for example Jesus address these "children of the devil" IN the flesh of the Pharisees. Jesus is NOT addressing the Pharisees as individuals, but as CAPTIVES of these DEVILS, and address and even aggravates them via exposures. Mark 4:15 shows us that the devil does enter the hearts of man, to steal, blind, destroy, etc. Sin is also noted as being "of the devil" and EVERYONE has sin and is a sinner because of this scriptural fact. 1 John 3:8, 2 Cor. 12:7, 1 Tim. 1:15, Romans 7:17-21 and the huge amounts of examples in the N.T. of devils and man being in the same location, which is the body of flesh, that demons consider as "their house." Matt. 12:44

These things ride the flesh "like horses."

Devils are also termed "TARES." And "EVIL SEED" of the devil in the scriptures.

Matthew 13:

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this.

The disclosure of Jesus to His disciples was this:

Matt. 13:

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but THE TARES ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE WICKED ONE.

The devil, satan, does not sexually or genetically reproduce. They are spirits, WICKED ONES. We do not see them "physically" but their presence is perceived in many other ways depicted in the scriptures. Many.

>>3168948

No one "stops" being a sinner. That would make them, at that point, when they are not "sinning." sinless. That is quite a scriptural lie that many religious people buy into, that if they are not externally sinning at any particular moment they are sinless. That is in fact the "catholic" mindset. Get absolution, be sinless until next sin transpires.

Paul took the exact opposite track, claiming to be the chief of sinners after salvation in 1 Tim. 1:15. Paul took this truthful approach because he knew the LAW prompted thoughts of LAWLESSNESS within, and in that proved that EVIL was internally present withIN him.

And it is SO in ALL.

At least Paul avoided being a LYING HYPOCRITE, huh?

>>3164346

If you do not consciously: confess your sin- inability to save yourself-confess that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh-confess that He died and was resurrected- accept forgiveness for your sin-accepting Him -

then you are not and cannot be saved. [/quote]

That's quite a wish list there.

Saul was struck down by The Light of Jesus on the Road to Damascus and didn't do one single thing listed above.

I guess God in Christ has exceptions, huh? Maybe favors murderer's?

Paul preached Grace because Paul did not do one single thing to deserve the salvation of Jesus Christ. Not one thing.

Any of us who would be likewise "struck by the Light" and heard Gods Direct Voice would be likewise saved.

Grace is what? What? Oh, that's right!

UNMERITED. emph. UN

Ah, the good ol' "activate your Jesus coupons now and get your sin forgiven". Otherwise this offer will expire and the all the actions of Jesus, technically, were entirely useless.

>>3198980

I have no issues with eternal punishment (or eternal death, take yer pick) for the devil and his messengers. We have direct scriptural statements to that entity class, the devil and his messengers for this very eternal fate.

For people? Nope. No evidence of ANY named person given as an example (among potentially millions or billions of people) and not ANY named person even threatened with such a fate.

Where readers get naturally confused is that the 2 parties above walk in the same pair of shoes, yet as individual entity classes. What applies to one will not apply to the other.

Mark 4:15, best example. Followed by Acts 26:18, Romans 7:17-21, 2 Cor. 3:14, 2 Cor. 4:4, 2 Cor. 12:7, Eph. 2:2 and THOUSANDS of examples of "devils and people" in the same skin in the Gospels, a LEGION OF DEVILS in a single man for instance in the foreign occupied man of the Gergesenes/Gaderenes< purposefully accounted and named this way to make specific points.

You might get it, you might not. There's more than "just you" reading from your own eyes according to the scriptures.

>>3199046

Good on you for seeing the facts and being honest about it. Honesty is a GIFT of the Holy Spirit. Vital in those who claim to know Jesus.

Luke 8:15

But that on the good ground are they, which in an HONEST and good heart, HAVING HEART THE WORD, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

See, the Word (and our own hearts and conscience) tell us we do have "evil thoughts" which DO defile us, which ARE sins. This is how we know we are "under" sin in the flesh. Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:25.

IF this is our "known" factual condition, how can we deride the BLINDED by the god of this world? It just means they are currently enslaved and under that power of LIES and DARKNESS and can not TELL THE TRUTH, honestly.

>>3198963

You hold a common fallacy. Nothing more.

Genetic lines are meaningless to those who know Christ in any case:

Stop wasting your and everyone else's time with that nonsense:

Titus 3:9

But AVOID foolish questions, and GENEALOGIES, and contentions, and strivings about the law;

> for they are unprofitable and vain.

>>3216278

First 2 humans cast into the Lake of Fire

Revelation 19:20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.[/quote]

Maybe bone up on reading skills and, like connect the obvious dots?

Rev. 16:

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of THE DRAGON, and out of the mouth of THE BEAST, and out of the mouth of THE FALSE PROPHET.

14 FOR THEY ARE THE SPIRITS OF DEVILS,

Now see what happened in your mind? Some "entity" that is not you DECEIVED YOU into thinking they ABOVE are people when that is obviously not the case.

Confirms Mark 4:15 every time.

You might put away some of the modern train wreck translations that have turned purposefully ambiguous terms such as "they" into "people" because they DON'T UNDERSTAND THE REALITY OF MARK 4:15 and can't understand it because it IS a reality.

>>3262313

There is zero specific scriptural evidence showing Satan/devils saved.

If there was specific evidence and not direct evidence to the contrary, I'd consider it. And have considered some scriptures as marginal evidence, but those unable to offset specific contrary statements.

Theodicy is probably the most difficult area to grasp and reconcile, because "the adversary" is both real and involved in trying to come to grips with it.

In the end there are many powers/agencies/entities that have an end, a finality. Our own flesh being in this status. And assuredly evil, sin, death, the devil and his messengers. All have an end and are put away, eternally.

If we really wanted to get serious about scriptures, Eternal God is all there ever was, is and ever will be.

Where does that leave "everything" else?

1 Corinthians 15:

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him,

that God may be all in all.

Don't really see anyone else in that picture. Probably doesn't need to be.

>>3265931

As noted prior, many things will not be going forward, by specific statements of scripture.

Perfect Love has zero requirements to eternally save death, hell, evil, sin or the devil and his messengers. If you try to include any of these the claims fail by specific scriptural denials.

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be NO MORE death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for THE FORMER THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY."

All things "SAVED" you claim? Scripture says nay. Ain't happenin. Just like your false imagination WILL PASS AWAY.

>>3290722

Freewill doesn't exist, except for God alone.

Easy self test for no freewill. Romans 7:7-13.

God is not 'in need' of our positive decisions in order to 'eternally reward us' for same in any case.

>>3293451

Wrong. To each according to their deeds.[/quote]

Romans 2:

9 Tribulation and anguish, UPON EVERY SOUL OF MAN THAT DOETH EVIL, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Romans 7:

19 For the good that I would I do not: but THE EVIL which I would not, THAT I DO.

Reconcile

Any halfwit should be able to come to an honest conclusion that all of us are internally constructed by both GOOD and EVIL. If same halfwit thinks they are only good internally, they are only deceived internally.

Apply all the freewill you want. Evil will remain as a fact of the internal construct of man, regardless. And no freewill can change or remove that internal fact.

Simple lesson in honesty.

>>3351746

See Paul's definition in Romans 7, primarily in vs. 7-13, defined as lawless or against law thoughts.

Paul takes this cue from Jesus, where Jesus also defined "evil thoughts" as thoughts against the LAW that defile us. They are not "optional."

Matt. 15:19-20, Mark 7:21-23 and Matt. 5:28

Habakkuk (2:9) defines evil as a "power."

>>3377286

It has been this way from the beginning and automatically comes with the territory. I'm only surprised when people think it should be otherwise.

John 7:43

So there was a division among the people because of him.

Totally NORMAL.

Gods Word is the original disruptive (theo)technology.

Anyone ever question why there are so many sects and divisions in christianity? Good grief the numbers are staggering. In part it's because, truthfully, we each have our own temple to deal with, and rule over.

Gal. 6:3-5

For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.For every man shall bear his own burden.

>>3377317

Why anyone thinks the RCC is worthy of participation yet alone saving is beyond me. It's a sham. A big fat old lying religious game. A haven, stew and coverup system for very certain brands of vile internal corruption that should be put out of societies by not playing and definitely NOT upholding and defending.

Any Christian who participates in lying hypocrisy has fallen into the deepest spiritual pit available in this present life.

The days of claiming to be only good in the name of Jesus, and never evil are OVER.

We have forgotten the REALITY of the Gospel:

Time for our meal of SHAME:

Romans 7:

19 For the good that I would I do not: but THE EVIL which I would not, THAT I DO.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, EVIL IS PRESENT WITH ME.

Today you'll hardly find a believer who can speak TRUTHFULLY, as Paul did openly. We can't even HEAR this reality, and instead, we lie and deceive ourselves, in the name of Jesus, of course.

>>3398117

Matthew 13:38

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but …

…the tares are the children of the wicked one;

The devil reproduces DEVILS, not people.

These TWO PARTIES, man and devil(s) happen to be overlapped in this present life, as clearly and openly evidenced in the Gospels and N.T.

Dire mistake to mix them or make them "the same" because they are NOT the same.

Here we are shown this overlap by Jesus:

Mark 4:

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, SATAN cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown IN THEIR HEARTS.

Paul shows us the same things for himself in 2 Cor. 12:7. Paul had this fact disclosed to him by Jesus on the road to Damascus in Acts 26:18.

Paul shows us this fact again and again in many citations, particularly overtly in 2 Cor. 4:4 and Eph. 2:2. Covertly in Romans 9:18-24, Romans 11:8 and 2 Tim. 2:20-21.

John shows us the same thing in 1 John 3:8.

Revelation shows us the same things when Jesus addresses the 7 churches. Remember man shall live by every Word of God. Every Word that Jesus says applies to every one of us. The notion that Gods Words are eliminated on the basis of whom they are spoken to or when His Words were spoken is patently FALSE.

Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4

Jesus can speak eternal death and eternal life to what seems to us on the surface flesh view to be only a person, yet BOTH STATEMENTS not only can be but ARE factually TRUE from a scriptural perspective because scripture addresses TWO PARTIES in what we see only as MAN when in reality it is MAN and DEVIL(s).

On this basis we can also both love ALL of mankind and abide in the understanding of eternal damnation judgment SIMULTANEOUSLY to, again, what only seems to the blinded as "one individual person." This notion doesn't exist from the Eyes of God.

Romans 11:

32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

That does NOT mean the spirit(s) of disobedience will have that same extension:

Ephesians 2:

2 Wherein in time past YE WALKED according to the course of this world, ACCORDING TO THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR, THE SPIRIT that now worketh in the children OF DISOBEDIENCE.

If anyone thinks it's "just them" they are blinded and remain enslaved.

>>3399668

Thee majority of christians think, quite falsely, that either they aren't sinners OR that God in Christ is a DOUBLE DEALER, letting christians off the hook for their sins while condemning everyone else to burn alive forever.

I'm not interested in such HYPOCRISY because it's OF THE DEVIL.

>>3395660

When you "freewill" yourself into sinlessness let us all know. Good luck.

>>3417393

Scriptural allegories are not "stories" without corresponding realities. Wheat corresponds to people who are ALL children of God. Tares correspond to DEVILS who are children of same. Both are real, but conveyed via allegories. Both have many corresponding allegorical terms throughout the scriptures.

The explanation for all of these is found in Mark 4:13, the explanation Jesus gave to understand all parables (inclusive of allegories) and the dissection and disclosure of the parties is found in the very first line of explanations, Mark 4:15.

Additionally, the explanations are only heard by His disciples. Others can read and and hear, but they won't understand. This is done on purpose. The information is there, in plain sight, but because of the REALITY of the matters, it won't be heard AND UNDERSTOOD by any other than His disciples because they are led, BY GOD HIMSELF, to SUBMIT to the reality of what Jesus is saying, personally.

>>3424829

You are correct that sin is indeed "of the devil" which scripture, 1 John 3:8 points to directly. It should occur to anyone reading that this places the devils involvement in sin, NOT just the person in which sin transpires.

The devil will not stop stop sinning because that's what the devil does, and does so IN PEOPLE.

Sin is also described in the N.T. as anything not of faith, Romans 14:23 AND transgression of the Law.

You: Are we all perfect? No, but we must learn and try to get better. [/quote]

Paul:

1 Timothy 1:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS; OF WHOM I AM CHIEF.

Paul made the above statement of "fact" after salvation and in the present tense application, I AM, not was or now I'm less of a sinner.

That statement is only possible if Paul understood the fact that the DEVIL is involved with sin, inclusive of Paul's SIN.

We don't "STOP" the devil from sinning or transgressing the LAW. This lawless activity transpires in ALL people in the form of EVIL THOUGHTS which defile ALL and such thoughts are DEMONIC in nature because such thoughts are SIN and are DEFILING.

Paul attributes this "sin thought" directly to the presence of sin indwelling his own flesh which he adroitly describes as "NO LONGER I" twice in Romans 7:17 & 20.

It should occur to MIND then that Satan is quite active in MIND in the form of EVIL PRESENT in ALL.

That is the "lesson" in fact from scripture.

Jesus did not say evil thoughts were "optional." Everyone has them instantly when exposed to LAW. Sin indwelling the flesh, evil present with us is prompted to DEFILE all people INTERNALLY. Just because the outside is painted up real nice and doesn't go from sin thoughts into sin words and sin deeds doesn't make them any less the "sinner." It only means they kept sin in check from progressing into full blown external slaveship to the DEVIL.

But all remain sinners, regardless.

>>3424742

You: Look…..Jesus spoke in metaphors. Tares simply means "weeds" as compared to say "corn" (and not GMO corn either!). In other words you are of God or of Satan producing weeds. It is that simple.[/quote]

Clearly weeds are allegorical to "children of the wicked one." Matt. 13:38

That would be devils. Pretty simple. There are thousands of examples of "devils in PEOPLE" in the N.T. That means there are people and there are devils, overlapped. Two entities. Not the same. People. Devils. Again, simple.

You on the other hand more than likely see only PEOPLE and ACCUSE only people. But then again, that's exactly what the DEVIL does, in people. Rev. 12:10.

So in that I'd consider you as a child of God to be blinded by the devil to this fact and also being pawned by the devil in not being able to see the difference. And even being a mouthpiece for Satan by such blindness.

Not that I have to hold it against you or any children of God i.e. any person. This affliction by the devil is quite common in churchy folk because, after all, Mark 4:15 is an internal reality. Most church people just don't believe what Jesus said happens to THEM, that's all.

>>3425651

You: It's hard to parse what you even mean. First of all, there is NO SIN.[/quote]

Oh? What rabbit hat did you pull that statement from?

If we're talking Bible, all have sin, present tense. 1 John 1:8 and if anyone says they don't they have sin they are deceiving themselves and the truth is not in them.

All have sin, and all are sinners. Scriptural fact 101.

>>3430180

You: 1. He did not mention 'Wheat', he identified another crop. The translators chose 'Wheat'.

1. A 'tare' is a specific type of weed which mimics a specific plant.

What is a 'tare'?

What plant does a 'tare' mimic?[/quote]

Jesus gave us the template to understand ALL parables (allegories) in Mark 4:13 and defines the parties involved in Mark 4:15. The parties involved are Gods Word, people and devils.

So, in the parable or allegory of "wheat" and "tares" the math is fairly easy. People are wheat. Tares are openly identified as "children of the wicked one" which would be the only remaining party, DEVILS.

Shake it out from there.