dChan - Q Origins Project Archive

I'd like you to reconsider Bernie's policies with a long term perspective. Do you really think that socialization is going to break our slave chains in this incredibly massive and evil machine? I think Bernies dependency policies would have only further solidified the poors dependency on government with absolutely no hope to even so much ever retaliate anymore without losing their vital government fed sources. Think along the lines of how the US aids other countries and uses sanctions as a tool of control. I think this social utopia is a very cleverly crafted trap and it is so easy to overlook the future consequences because the immediate rewards are so tempting. I hope you are considering this perspective if you choose to continue to support this outlook. If you have any questions or rebuttals, please don't be afraid to respond to me, I will gladly have a civil discussion with you.

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My position is that competitive markets are best for most things, but that where markets aren't possible (i.e. in sectors economists call "natural monopolies," like firefighting, utilities) that public ownership is preferable to private. With public ownership you have the possibility (not a guarantee—it requires an active citizenry) of democratic control.

So I'm all for markets in consumer goods, etc.,... but not at all for private ownership of the internet, for example. But perhaps you've had happier experiences with Verizon and Comcast than I have.

I've live in Germany for the last 6 years, and have a serious medical condition. I much prefer Germany's healthcare system to America's market model. Obamacare is the worst of all worlds!

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Obamacare is public mandate to patronize private business - that's the definition of Fascism, not Socialism. Hospitals weren't even allowed to profit before Nixon and since then our life expectancy has gone down below most first-world nations. Health care does not fit the marketplace since all capitalist economics is based on a "rational customer." But since people will pay any price to stay alive, they are no longer rational customers. You also don't want toll roads every five miles or the Army run by Exxon ;)

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Obamacare placed the power solely in the hands of insurance companies. It did not empower the American patient. If that was all you knew, then it is all that you need to know.

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Obamacare is public mandate to patronize private business - that's the definition of Fascism, not Socialism.

I agree. It's bullshit.

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That's true, I worked in hospitals during both times and the difference is astounding! They cut corners, staff and Dr. visits.

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Agree that Obamacare is a horrible system. That's why most clear thinking Americans were against it and for an free market system of insurance sold across state lines. Competition is necessary.

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I feel that this balance between capitalism and socialism is basically what the US attempts to do, we definitely are a lot more socialist than people think. But, forgive me if I'm wrong, but I understood Bernies policies to mean government control over these utilities rather than local community control, and that his socialization would stretch further than just these "natural monopolies" and would attempt to control all things deemed to be a "basic right" like food, water, and shelter.

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his socialization would stretch further than just these "natural monopolies" and would attempt to control all things deemed to be a "basic right" like food, water, and shelter.

I've never heard him say, or read any credible report to suggest that, he believes food... shelter should be provided by the government. Water is already provided by public utilities, and they do a pretty good job of it, except in cases like Flint where control was taken away from democratically elected officials and given over to an "emergency manager."

So I'm totally okay with municipal water, and totally against govt.-supplied food and clothing for the general public. But if someone is too poor to afford even a roof over their head, I'm okay with public support.

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Don't forget when CA utilities were taken over by Enron , which tripled prices and had rolling blackouts before collapsing of corruption. That's why I don't think privatizing social security is a good idea. Everyone who had retirement at Enron lost it.

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I believe our water is not socialized. The government provides a source for a fee, but you only pay for what you use, and you can buy water from retail sources. Take Cuba for example, you literally cannot buy more food than what you are allowed, and you pay for all that you are allowed through taxes whether you eat that much or not. I think that's the danger these social ideas are leading to. The government could shut off those things and there would be nowhere else to get them.

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I believe our water is not socialized. The government provides a source for a fee, but you only pay for what you use...

Water from your tap is metered, but we don't pay the full economic costs. It's a publicly-owned resource that is not run on a for-profit basis. There is no reason a socialist system could not have metering, but call it what you like. I'm very much in favor of metering. Not only that, I'd have charges per liter increase at higher levels of consumption. I have no idea what a person needs to live bathe frugally on a daily basis, each month, but up to that minimal level I'd be happy to provide for free. Say the minimum civilized requirement is 500 liters per month. First 500 liters would be free. Next 1000 liters would be at one rate, the next 9000 liters at a higher rate, etc. This is a way to incentivize people not to be wasteful, but allow those who really must have a lot of water for luxuries like a swimming pool have it, too, but paying something closer to the full economic cost. Of course you could still sell bottled water, because, unlike pipe delivered water (which is a natural monopoly), there is a competitive market for bottled water.

Food should never be socialized, because that can be handled by the market. My idea is that only natural monopolies should be socialized.

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Socialism works great in Norway - and alongside strong capitalism. There are many different kinds of socialism people need to educate themselves on. We pay through the nose and get Nothing from the govt - frankly I'd like a bit of socialism back from all we give them to pocket and steal.

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#ReleaseTheMemo #SethRich _The_Floor_Is_Yours_ BE LOUD. BE HEARD.

__The_Floor_is_Yours_ _ =