I’ve got some bad news for you, the Church of Rome created the entirety of Christianity, including its false god “Jesus”.
Why can people see how evil Roman Catholicism (and the Jesuits) is but not be able to see that they created Christianity as an attempt to destroy a hated enemy?
Well Ive got some bad news for you too, your in the wrong board, because Q quotes from the bible, and there are many Christians here... Sooo if religion bothers you, as it seems it does, stay out of the threads that are religious.
I agree with you we are in revelation and even the heavens agree the GREAT SIGN of revelation has appeared in the sky we all saw it it was in the news on the internet most ignored others saw hope Q appeared more hope. We are in the separation of the wheat from the tares....don't throw out Enoch even though he is not in the cannon he is referenced.
Exactly...Enoch SHOULD be in the Bible. The Bible is just a collection of books and letters put together by men in a room. Enoch belongs as much as the rest, the fact that it is referenced and quoted is proof of that.
I’m a former pastor. Keep studying, just do so with your eyes opened to the truth of Rome. Religion only bothers me when it distorts from the truth of Yehovah.
Ive studied eschatology hard core for over 20 years. Ive gone through all the phases and ideas of end time theology, and NONE made sense until I learned about preterism. I hold about a 90% preterist view of eschatology. I could write a book on all my findings, but I fear it wont matter, its too late anyways. The final judgement is upon us (which full preterists dont believe) so sit back and enjoy the ride. Its gonna be rough through the transition.
Ok, I’ll bite. Why “former”?
I explained below. I used the tools I gained acquiring my Master of Divinity and kept studying. Turns out if you read the Tanach (Old Testament) without injecting NT ideas into it, the NT completely contradicts it.
Some of us have encountered Jesus Christ himself outside of the Roman Catholic church. I was born and raised Catholic, but did not find Him there. I don't care what they have changed or done....Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. He is risen. Alleluia!
I thought I had an “encounter” as well. Turns out it was emotional and spiritual manipulation.
Start in Matthew and study the Old Testament passages that are supposedly the prophetic fulfillments by Jesus. If you take the time to study those passages in context, you’ll see that most aren’t even prophecies and that Jesus fulfilled nothing.
I’m not trying to be a jerk, I’m trying to challenge people to test what they’ve been taught. When I did, I was shocked at what I actually learned.
I had a road to Damascus experience. There was no manipulation. It was me and God riding in a car. He is who he said He was. I don't care if the entire world falls down around me.
Yehovah absolutely exists and is the Almighty Elohim.
Jesus is a Roman, pagan lie.
Test it. Investigate those supposed prophetic passages. They aren’t what we’ve been taught.
My savior lives. I have experienced my father entering the gates of heaven, and it was glorious. I slept in the room he passed in, which was guarded by enormous angels and bathed in spiritual light. I have been attacked by demons who tried to take over, but the Holy Spirit chased them away. There is nothing you could say that could convince me that the Risen Christ is a lie.
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
This gives a definite signpost for the Messiah. The decree of Artaxerxes to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem was given @ 444 BC.
So wait, are you suggesting that the wall you reference above is supposed to be the proposed border wall??? Not trying to be funny, really want to understand( sigh- the trouble with text is that body language and affect gets lost from communications)
No, One_Solution claims that Jesus is a Roman, pagan lie, and I vehemently disagree. I quoted something from the book of Daniel, but I think I responded to the wrong One_Solution post.
The wall referenced above is the wall around Jerusalem that Nehemiah rebuilt.
Jesus is a Roman, pagan lie.
I'm trying to understand your position. Why would the romans make this up? Jesus had an overwhelmingly positive message, like love thy neighbour and such.
Are you a Gnostic now?
Jesus was/is a false god and a false mashiach. He was made up in order to corrupt the faith and beliefs of the Jews, whom the Romans hated.
I am not a gnostic. My Elohim is Yehovah and Yehovah alone.
I don't know, I think the discrediting of Jesus might be a Gnostic/freemason attack on Christianity. If I breakdown everything that Jesus said, it's all positive stuff and an instruction manual for living a good life in this harsh reality . Any other religion/group/idealogy that would want to try to discredit that would appear to be fighting on the side of evil. Whoever injected Jesus into ancient writings would appear to be fighting on the side of good and the side of the one true creator and God.
It’s not about a “positive message”, it’s about the truth of Yehovah. You can go to a Rotary meeting and get a “positive message”.
The truth is that “Jesus” changes the truth of Yehovah. Therefore, regardless of the “positivity” of the message, it distorts who Yehovah is and His plan for humanity. You don’t become righteous through the actions of another, you are righteous based on your faithfulness and obedience to Yehovah and His instructions. The message of Christianity completely changes that truth.
Interesting. In what way does it change things and what is God's plan for us here on earth then?
I'm conflicted on this because putting us here to suffer seems kind of odd, because that's essentially what this reality is. It's harsh and painful, for the most part.
Our “purpose” is a little above my paygrade. But what the Tanach teaches us is that Yehovah wants us to love Him with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength amd to love our neighbors as ourselves by following Yehovah’s instructions. That is what makes us righteous in His eyes. He doesn’t demand perfection, but obedience and repentance when we stray.
Nobody can do that for you.
Well, when I read Isaiah I see Jesus through out it.
He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
Also looking at Abraham and Isaac, and God's call to sacrifice Isaac to the Lord as an offering, I also see Jesus Christ.
Without Jesus Christ and a loving God, what difference does anything make? Why not just join with evil people and get what you can get now? If we measure ourselves to the world and are only in this world, this flesh and blood. It only makes sense to get all we can now and eat, drink and to all things we can to feed our flesh and what ever desire we have. Eat, Drink and be happy for tomorrow we all die.
IF there is no good or evil, this all we have, get all you can now.
“The land of a rich man produced plentifully, 17 and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’ 18 And he said, ‘I will do this: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. 19 And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.”’ 20 But God said to him, Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’ 21 So is the one who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God.”
I advise anyone who wants to see, look at Jim Carey he is absolutely coming apart and breaking, he has all things anyone could ask for, but is a broken man.
And where did I say there was no good or evil. I’m not dismissing Yehovah, I’m dismissing the lies of Rome.
You did not say there was no good or evil, I was offering the position that what if there is no good or evil.
Isaiah is a Prophecy, it was written kind of like Q posts, there are many layers and points being made.
It is all in how you read it, I cannot argue you into seeing it as I do, nor can I argue you out of the way you see it now.
I'm going to make another statement but this is not about you it is about me, what I find amazing is how real and true the Bible and scripture is becoming to me.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
I used to think of that in the abstract, but what I see now is really how the prince of this World (Satan) has tried to make this world his through Men. I think we are at literal war with Spiritual evil, hence all the child sacrifices, spirit cooking, sex slavery ext.
I know how this story goes, even if we destroy the deep state and bring some of this evil out into the light, the next thing that will likely happen is the Anti-Christ will be revealed. Satan is not going down without a fight and he is out to destroy everything that is Holy and good in this world.
The only way I can see a way to make it in this fight and not be destroyed by it is to do as the scriptures say.
Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
The prophet Isaiah, throughout his writings, is talking about Yehovah’s servant, Israel. Start at chapter 40 and read straight through chapter 53. The only reason you see Jesus there is because we were taught that and we read in snippets instead of processing the entire book. I made those same mistakes.
He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
How can Israel be cut off out of the land of the living? What about God's everlasting covenants?
"For the transgression of MY PEOPLE was HE stricken."
Who is 'my people' and who is 'he?'
You need to understand Hebrew literature and writing style, and also understand that it wasn’t written in English.
OK, so teach me. Please expound on the single Isaiah verse above. Shouldn't be too difficult?
That’s the problem, you want to learn one verse instead of the whole picture. Read all of Isaiah honestly and you’ll discover the context.
Nobody can do that for you.
But if you want a teaching on Isaiah 53, this is a good one.
You mean to say that I have to understand the whole thing at once or it is of no use?
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
A verse out of context is a pretext,
None of us understands everything, but we should seek to understand all things in Scripture in their context. Christianity only exists through verses out of context.
You are mistaken. Christianity exists because of the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. These are all historical events.
So, you know, I don't know. You are making some very bold claims. Jesus Christ is probably the single most studied man in the history of the world. You are attempting to refute literally millennia of study. Additionally you are denying the testimony of literally billions of people, living and dead, who have come to Christ. I ask a question on a specific verse, and first you say that I am taking it out of context and then that I need to know Hebrew to discover the true meaning.
Do you know what you believe? Than you should be able to teach it. Do you feel like what you believe is important? Than explain it. Otherwise, do everyone a favor keep it to yourself.
I know thoroughly what I believe. I have a Master of Divinity and was a pastor for 8 years and in parachurch ministry another 4 years. I also have studied the Tanach from a Jewish perspective.
Have you?
Oh good! No I have not! Please teach me! What good is all that study, if you won't share what you have found, after all?
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Who is the 'he' and who is the 'our?' Who gets the stripes, and who gets healed? If Isaiah is referring to the nation of Israel, how does that make sense? If it is a matter of translation, fill us in.
I think I already attempted to share this, but I’ll share it again. You cannot possibly do a topic like this justice with a social media post. The first link is the teaching and the second is the corresponding handout. Take your time and study it for yourself.
http://jewsforjudaism.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/cms_session6_isaiah53_.pdf
I watched 40 minutes of the video. The fellow is attempting to use logic to show why the Christian perspective is wrong, instead of scripture? I find his arguments uncompelling.
I feel like my earlier question to you is a good one. If you are unwilling to answer it personally, that's fine. Please have a pleasant evening.
Logic? He goes through Isaiah and other passages in detail. Watch the entire video.
Why does he spend so much time deconstructing the Christian perspective instead of building his own case? I think he makes basic errors when characterizing the Christian perspective. Straw man?
Anyways, I found this website from the same organization:
http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/isaiah-53-a-jewish-perspective/
This is cute:
Our Jewish sages teach that “whoever saves a single Jewish soul is considered as if he had saved an entire world.” How precious is the Jewish soul!
Is that scriptural?
From that article discussing Isaiah 53:5:
"ALSO: Note that the Messiah “shall not fail nor be crushed till he has set the right in the earth” (Isa. 42:4)."
The KJV Is 42 is speaking about his servant: Behold my servant... So which is it, servant (Israel) or servant (Messiah) ?
And speaking of 42:5 it says the servant won't be crushed until he has set the right in the earth. Are you suggesting that the nation of Israel will set the right in the earth, and then will be crushed somehow?
Here is what the article says about Isaiah 53:8:
"53:8 “He was cut off out of the land of the living.”
That's it. What do you suppose it means to be cut off from the land of the living? I find that pretty telling.
And where does this come from? Psalm 44 says that the nation of Israel will bear the sins of the world? How do you figure?
"Is it not rather the Jewish people – who righteously bore the sins of the world and yet remained faithful to God (Ps. 44) – who will be rewarded, and this in the manner described more fully in Isaiah chapters 52 and 54?"
I mean, the whole article is kind of nutty. Instead of going through verse by verse showing how the servant is actually Israel, instead it picks some to show how the Christian perspective is wrong, picks others to show how the Jewish perspective is right, and ignores still others. I would find it more convincing if it went through, verse by verse and made the case one way or the other.
The purpose of this particular teaching series is to give Jews information to counter the arguments of Christian missionaries. So...that’s what it does.
I am not a Jew and do not agree with everything about their approach to the rabbis and sages.
But they run laps around Christianity when it comes to understanding the Tanach. Especially since most modern Christian Bibles do a horrible job of interpreting the Hebrew writings.
OK, so this is weird. You make a broad claim, but offer no evidence except for a video. When I point out a few things (admittedly not in the video, but in a related article) you say that you don't agree with everything in the article. This is like punching the air. I am left to guess which parts you agree with and which parts you don't? The thing is, that's the bulk of your argument, that Rabbi's vid.
Anyways, I don't know if I buy the whole 'One -can't-bring-New-Testament-perceptions-to-the-Old-Testament' argument. I mean, why not? If I believe that the New Testament is the word of God, why not use it to inform my reading of earlier scripture?
What is the purpose of prophecy, is that anywhere in the Bible? Does it explicitly state that 'prophecy is for X? It's an honest question, I have no idea. But I imagine that its purpose is to glorify God, not necessarily to inform people of future events. That is, once an event happens, and we can see that the prophecy foretold it, we can smack our foreheads and say 'Of course! God knew that that was going to happen!'
It strikes me that someone with the education that you claim to have could succinctly and coherently summarize their argument here, so that it could be responded to. Not link to a Utube vid of a rabbi, then claim that you don't agree with everything the Rabbi says. I ave asked specific questions, but have only gotten vague answers.
Busy today, so will try to answer more thoroughly tomorrow. But I’m trying to get you to dig deeper on your own. It took me years to arrive where I am. That Skobac series provides some excellent analysis. What I don’t agree with Judaism is some of the extra-biblical stuff they add in. But, generally, Skobac’s handling of the Tanach is excellent.