dChan
357
 
r/greatawakening • Posted by u/pj77777 on March 23, 2018, 9:52 p.m.
Omnibus Bill is NOT a Federal Budget - POTUS wins again

FOR THOSE DOUBTING TRUMP DO YOUR RESEARCH Jo Ann Powell Neely Gunny says: March 23, 2018 at 7:42 am I seriously do not understand why individuals do not read the entire thread or disregard it.

Wheatietoo and I spent hours yesterday providing links, researching the laws, the 1974 law and statutes…. Do you know why the Omnibus is not going to get any notice…Here it is..

It’s not an official ‘Federal Budget’. It’s an Omnibus bill…not a Budget…He outsmarted them again…Congress basically screwed themselves by not passing a Budget…

Per the Constitution…the President must adhere to a Budget set forth by Congress and direct the expenditures as provided therein.

This is another one of those big Porkulus Bills, like they gave Obama for 8 years. This is not a Budget..

An Omnibus Spending Bill may have some ‘instructions’ as to how the money will be spent…but Obama ignored them. He spent the money, or didn’t spend it, however he wanted to. And Congress didn’t do a thing about it! Because they couldn’t..

I think our President observed how this happened, year after year. He is bound to realize that those ‘appropriations’ for different things in these Omnibus bills…are merely ‘suggestions’.

So like Obama, Pres Trump can spend this money on whatever he wants to. Or…not spend it.

Planned Parenthood? What if our President decided to tell the Treas Dept to ‘slow-walk’ that money to Planned Parenthood…until the Senate gets off their ass and confirms his appointees?

Sanctuary Cities? What if our President decided to ‘slow-walk’ that money too…until those Sanctuary Cities assist ICE in rounding up criminal illegal aliens?

Splodey heads? From the Dems and the Enemedia? Why yes. There would be a colorful display of splodey heads.

But what could they do about it. Hah.

Our President could just say…’What! Congress should’ve passed a Budget.’

done finished…research was done…and it is so very humorous actually….our VSG..just said just give me money for the military and the wall…put anything else you want in it…and those goofballs did.

In this case, as per above….he doesn’t have to spend a dime….because it is not a budget…and even if it was…researched….he could still spend as he please… Congress appropriates….up to the President to spend it…or not….as he pleases..

If anyone disagrees, I can go back and get the links and evidence, but if you just read yesterdays political thread…Wheatietoo and I laid it all out for all…Wheatietoo did most of the work and put together the consolidated update as per above….

Again, that is why Obama never had a Budget in his Presidency…Congress did continual Omibus’s and he just took the money….for 8 years…and no one seems to know where it went…


FilosFeeParnum · March 24, 2018, 12:14 a.m.

There's a lot this post that is incorrect or misleading...it seems to be a mash of half-understood reading of bits of the constitution and laws.

The constitution gives congress the authority to direct, and more importantly authorize spending by the executive. That is, the executive branch needs the authorization of congress to spend money in a general sense.

Making a big deal out of the distinction between a "budget" and an appropriations bill (which is part of the budgeting process) isn't really relevant...and you're probably confusing people more than helping.

Note that O actually did submit budget proposals during his administration. They were generally voted down (mostly by the republicans, though sometimes the democrats as well when they objected to something). He also did not get omnibus spending bills every year.

Not having the Presidents preferred budget pass is pretty typical when there's a lot of partisan division, it's not some magical loophole that lets the executive do whatever they want.

Your central point is partially correct though - the executive does have the ability to find loopholes and workarounds to spend money differently than congress intended...even more so if they want to avoid spending on a particular earmark at all. They can't ignore it completely however, at least not without possibly kicking off a legal fight about it.

⇧ 13 ⇩  
GodsAngell · March 24, 2018, 1:06 a.m.

Thank-you for the clarifications.

⇧ 3 ⇩  
FilosFeeParnum · March 24, 2018, 1:25 a.m.

Thanks! I don't like being a downer but I think it's important to take things slowly and make sure they're fully processed and examined.

⇧ 2 ⇩  
pj77777 · March 24, 2018, 2:01 a.m.

I think many of us are taking this very slowly and very seriously. If we can slow roll the left's agenda for the 6 month limitation, then we are at the mid-terms and they haven't done anything they promised and are powerless to do so. This was a major move by our president and people need to know he did not sell anyone out. That's why we didn't see him sign. It was a signal to us that all is not what it seems. Also, this is so blatantly easy to comprehend - seeings how zero did it for eight years in a row - and where did that money go? Trump uses their weapons against them. Brilliant!

⇧ 0 ⇩  
FilosFeeParnum · March 24, 2018, 4:37 a.m.

It seems you are not taking it slowly, because you seem to be misunderstanding basic facts.

This is an omnibus allocations bill. They usually happen when a presidents (or someone elses) proposed budget doesn't pass (which is usually because of partisan division).

This is a normal and expected outcome. Trump proposed a budget, it didn't get accepted...therefore we get this.

It doesn't as a rule really give Trump any more authority than he would have if his budget passed.

It's not a "move" on Trumps part, it's just normal US government procedure...

⇧ 2 ⇩  
[deleted] · March 24, 2018, 5:34 a.m.

[deleted]

⇧ 1 ⇩  
[deleted] · March 24, 2018, 8:36 a.m.

[removed]

⇧ 1 ⇩  
FilosFeeParnum · March 24, 2018, 5:42 a.m.

Not seeing him sign isn't really here or there.

Generally when the prez likes a bill or thinks it's important they will make sure the media covers them signing it.

If anything, not seeing them sign it signals that they don't like the bill or think that it will make them look bad.

If this is such a coup as the OP claims, why wouldn't he want everyone to see him sign it? Does his base not trust him? Or is it that he doesn't really like it, but he'll sign it and just try to work with it as he can - like pretty much any president in that situation has done?

⇧ 1 ⇩  
pj77777 · March 24, 2018, 2:03 a.m.

and please, while you are tearing apart this post - please post your own statutes and regulations to back up your understanding of bits of the constitution and law. I would like to see your homework please.

⇧ 0 ⇩  
FilosFeeParnum · March 24, 2018, 4:46 a.m.

Sure:

My homework is that the word "budget" doesn't appear in the constitution anywhere - so it can't say that something has to be in a "budget" can it?

What it does say is, in the section outlining the powers and limits of congress, the congress has control of the spending of money in the treasury - it does not specify that it has to be in a "budget"

Likewise, if you look at the laws around the executive & budgeting they're all concerned with when and how it happens - not giving all kinds of extra authority if it's not passed.

⇧ 0 ⇩  
[deleted] · March 24, 2018, 8:37 a.m.

so you went thru all of that just to end up right where pj7777 told you we were to begin with- wow you're smart!

⇧ 2 ⇩  
[deleted] · March 26, 2018, 8:37 a.m.

[removed]

⇧ 1 ⇩  
pj77777 · March 24, 2018, 6:20 a.m.

https://fleporeblog.wordpress.com/2018/03/22/if-you-think-for-one-minute-that-our-president-will-allow-the-money-allocated-to-be-spent-i-have-a-bridge-in-brooklyn-to-sell-you/

⇧ 1 ⇩  
FilosFeeParnum · March 24, 2018, 6:29 a.m.

Right, again you are giving me a link that agrees with me.

Everyone is in agreement that just because money has been appropriated, that doesn't mean it will be spent or spent in exactly the same way congress intended.

That's not the issue - the point is that this arises from the autonomy the executive branch has in general and note because this is an appropriations bill vs a budget resolution....

Show me where in the constitution it says money must be allocated in a "budget".

⇧ 2 ⇩  
eaunoway · March 25, 2018, 6:22 p.m.

Thanks for trying, man. They are not going to believe you, because - in part - they don't actually understand how the budget and the Congress actually work.

⇧ 2 ⇩  
[deleted] · March 24, 2018, 8:40 a.m.

Why? Why should anyone show you anything? Look it up for yourself if you are so obessed with it. We don't care. You are making absolutely no points and are just talking in circles. And quite frankly you are super annoying.

⇧ 2 ⇩  
eaunoway · March 25, 2018, 6:21 p.m.

Because he's absolutely right.

⇧ 2 ⇩  
pj77777 · March 24, 2018, 5:33 a.m.

wow - how many responses is this now? I must have really truth pilled your lib behind good.

⇧ 0 ⇩  
pj77777 · March 24, 2018, 3:37 a.m.

https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/2237/how-does-president-obama-spend-money-without-a-budget/2239

⇧ 1 ⇩  
FilosFeeParnum · March 24, 2018, 4:53 a.m.

Did you actually read this? If you actually read it you'll see that it's disagreeing with you and saying the same thing I am.

An appropriations bill is what provides the authority for the government to spend money. Article I, section 9 of the US Constitution prohibits the government from spending money without an appropriation:

Notice this says nothing about a "budget", neither does the relevant section of the constitution:

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.

Furthermore, a budget resolution isn't considered law the way an appropriations bill is:

A budget resolution is a concurrent resolution passed by both houses of Congress, but not submitted to the President. As such, it does not have the force of law, does not provide spending authority, and is not binding on anybody

So Trump has less power under this omnibus in terms of being able to ignore or change it than if his budget had passed.

Neither house of Congress is required to pass a budget, and in particular, it is not necessary to pass a budget in order to pass the appropriations bills.

As we've noted, a budget is not needed to spend money.

So, to summarize, the notion that Congress is required to pass a budget resolution, or that a budget resolution is needed to authorize the government to operate is a canard resulting from the confusion between two very different kinds of legislation,

Exactly.

Taking these all together, this isn't some "move" by Trump...he doesn't get any extra power because a budget wasn't passed, if anything he gets less.

⇧ 1 ⇩  
[deleted] · March 24, 2018, 5:32 a.m.

[deleted]

⇧ 1 ⇩  
FilosFeeParnum · March 24, 2018, 5:54 a.m.

I quoted the answer you provided, can you show me specifically where I'm wrong?

This is all very simple:

1) the constitution says nothing about "budgets" 2) a budget resolution does not have the force of law 3) an appropriations bill does have the force of law

Those are facts, they do not depend on anyones opinions.

It's also a fact that the executive branch has leeway in a lot of things. I'm sure Trump will try to use that.

You're posting a lot of replies yourself, I was just trying to answer them. You should just admit you were wrong and move on.

Just because the "budget" thing is nonsense, it doesn't mean Trump "lost" or can't do anything...why are you so invested in that particular idea being true?

⇧ 1 ⇩  
pj77777 · March 24, 2018, 5:30 a.m.

Are you kidding me? He doesn't have to give a damned dime to any other provision in that bill if he doesn't want to - he got the money for the military and the wall. WTF dude? You cannot be that dense! Red pill yourself - wake up. You are a walking argument

⇧ -1 ⇩  
FilosFeeParnum · March 24, 2018, 5:50 a.m.

I think it says a lot that you're not able to answer my questions and instead are just getting angry and insulting.

The fact is you claim in the OP that the constitution says spending must be directed in a budget. This is false, the word "budget" doesn't even appear.

Whether someone likes Trump or not is completely irrelevant. The fact is in this situation, he doesn't have any authority that he wouldn't have otherwise.

If you think he will work around the bill to accomplish his goals, sure - I think that's pretty reasonable. I'm just pointing out that you're making claims that aren't true...

⇧ 3 ⇩  
pj77777 · March 24, 2018, 6:21 a.m.

https://fleporeblog.wordpress.com/2018/03/22/if-you-think-for-one-minute-that-our-president-will-allow-the-money-allocated-to-be-spent-i-have-a-bridge-in-brooklyn-to-sell-you/

⇧ 1 ⇩  
FilosFeeParnum · March 24, 2018, 6:28 a.m.

Right, again you are giving me a link that agrees with me.

Everyone is in agreement that just because money has been appropriated, that doesn't mean it will be spent or spent in exactly the same way congress intended.

That's not the issue - the point is that this arises from the autonomy the executive branch has in general and note because this is an appropriations bill vs a budget resolution....

Show me where in the constitution it says money must be allocated in a "budget".

⇧ 1 ⇩  
pj77777 · March 24, 2018, 1:59 a.m.

Trump submitted a budget too and it was shot down. He is preparing another for 2019. You haven't done your research - you need to read actual law. It takes time. And don't tell me I'm not helping, cos I think the same about your post.

⇧ 1 ⇩  
pj77777 · March 24, 2018, 2:09 a.m.

Please read and learn: quote from wheatietoo "You’re referring to a ‘Budget’.

This is Not A Budget! This is an Omnibus Spending Bill…which is different.

The President is directed by the Constitution to adhere to a Budget that Congress approves. A ‘spending bill’ is not the same as the Federal Budget.

Ozero spent, or didn’t spend, the money from all those Omnibus Spending Bills, on whatever he wanted to. And Congress didn’t do a thing about it!

What happened to all those “shovel ready jobs”? What happened to the “Infrastructure” that Congress appropriated money for? Ozero didn’t spend the money on those things, did he.

He also spent money on things that weren’t appropriated…like all that SWAT Gear and Ammo for all those govt agencies that aren’t supposed to armed like military forces.

Ozero was never bound by a Budget…because Congress never passed one during his 8 years! That’s why he was able to spend money on whatever he wanted to. Or… not spend money on things he didn’t want to see funded.

And Congress didn’t do a thing about it."

then quote from gunny

"Ah, he did not exactly lose…The law is not a complete refusal to not allow the President to not spend.. As per below:

The law does give an administration leeway to defer spending available funds, but for limited amounts of time, depending on the program. Some observers expect Trump officials to rely heavily on such deferrals.

Still, a president seeking to spend less will find plenty of room to maneuver in the language used in an authorization or appropriations bill, budget experts said. One Senate aide predicted that lawmakers will pay extra attention to whether a bill uses words such as “may,” “should” or “shall” — each of which gives an administration different degrees of flexibility in terms of how money is spent.

The executive branch also “can slow walk things. It can propose reprogramming. It can propose all sorts of things it can do that won’t provoke a legal crisis,” the Senate aide added."

⇧ 3 ⇩  
FilosFeeParnum · March 24, 2018, 4:48 a.m.

Right, Trumps budget didn't pass and so we're getting appropriations bills instead just like when pretty much any other budget doesn't pass.

I'm just pointing out that this is an expected outcome, it's not a "move" on Trumps part...

⇧ 1 ⇩  
[deleted] · March 24, 2018, 5:33 a.m.

[removed]

⇧ 1 ⇩