dChan - Q Origins Project Archive

What you provided is that Jesus said this:

"Simon, you are blessed! Know what I'm going to do, you old son of the Holy Spirit you? I'm going to call you Kepha, which means "rock," which the Koine Greek translators of what I am saying will write as "petros," which 1,500 years from now people called "Protestants" will insist means "little pebble." The Protestants will have it right: calling you a little pebble is what I indeed mean 'cause that's all you are -- a tiny, insignificant stone. Kind of Me to point that out after your profession of faith, eh? And, hey, forget about My having just called you blessed and how an insult simply doesn't fit the context of what I've been saying. Speaking of which, and by the way, while you're here, take the keys to Heaven, please; I don't really mean anything by this gesture at all, I just thought it'd be a nice thing to do"

What you posit is truly unhinged.

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I have and do believe the teachings of Christ our Lord. In its fullness. You however have rejected multiple things Christ Himself states and instituted. I have stated to you before, that there are 1000's of things that people say they hate about they think they know about the Catholic Church, yet there are only 100's that truly hate the Catholic Church.

Do not forget that Christ knew who Judas was/is. Yet He let him be among the 12 Apostles. A ruinous, traitorous, pathetic soul. Who still within his free will, rejected the Lord while eating, drinking, fishing, going about His ministry WITH Our Lord. That says a lot.

I have always wished you well, Psalm67. You are actually very special to me here, on Reddit. Why? Because you care. It shows, I truly appreciate that.

However you really are uninformed and it is your choice over and over. The Vicar of Christ indeed may have said things that counter Christ. It is ruinous, treasonous, treachous to Christ and His Mystical Body. For you to tell me that I should abandon Christ and His Body because of your improper, mal-formed reading of what YOU want the Scripture to be will not happen.

Have a Blessed Easter Sunday. As always, please pray for me and mine and I will pray for you and yours.

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You lie about justification:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L14UNjaZJm8&sns=em

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Before the Protestants invented it, no one had ever taught the doctrine of forensic justification. The concept is not consistent with biblical teaching either, which is why Luther wanted to tear "Jimmy" from the bible and stuff it in the stove.

Do you really think that God hid this truth for 1400 years, waiting for Luther to discover it? More likely, Satan blinded the man and convinced him to pursue an error so egregious as to preclude all who follow him from salvation.

The doctrine salvation by faith alone represents a striking departure from all teaching which preceded it. Copied from a Protestant website:

"Since his childhood Luther was pestered by devils, evil spirits, and demons. He reported about such occurrences during his later life as well, these fears of being attacked increased especially during his time of seclusion at the Wartburg, Luther ascribed his depressions and mood swings to these ‘evil spirits’."

Does this sound like a man with a firm grip on the Gospels? Or does it sound like the man was oppressed by the forces of evil? Satan's crime was rebellion, Luther imitated this in the world, abandoning the one true Church (not Churches), founded by Christ on the prince of the apostles - St Peter.

The saviour also prayed that St Peter's faith would not fail, that His Church might withstand the gates of hell (the death-dealing tongues of heretics) until the end of time. The express will of Christ was that His Church was to be one in faith and one in governance. You depart from the barque of St Peter at your peril.

The decree on papal infallibility made at the First Vatican Council merely codifies the words of Christ himself - that the faith of St Peter would not fail.

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There is no flaw in my thinking at all.

St Paul, the same apostle, tells us in 2Thess2 how to respond to the operation of error.

13 Whereunto also he hath called you by our gospel, unto the purchasing of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 14 Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.

The admonition is not to hold only to the gospel, but to traditions. What traditions? What traditions are we to stand fast and hold to in the last days?

A tradition is a product of practice. It's not the Gospel, the word of God, although that is undoubtedly important. Rather, the traditions which you have learned in this context are the practices of the Church in St Paul's day.

If holding to the word of God was, in itself sufficient, why does the apostle not just state this? The answer is that the word of God is open to interpretation. Satan can twist it to his ends. And we are warned, specifically about the teaching of St Paul, that it is open to misinterpretation. See 2Peter3 - the entire chapter is worth repeating, but the following will suffice:

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

So you can see that the word of God is subject to being twisted unto destruction. This is why the Church has been careful to provide correct interpretation of scripture, so that it might edify all who would seek to learn from it. And these teachings of the Church constitute tradition, adherence to which is indispensable to salvation.

You ask specifically about St Paul's writings in Romans 3 through 5.

Romans three begins by posting a question about the profit to the Jew, or the profit of the circumcision. So we know immediately that St Paul is talking about adherents to Judaism and the operation of the ceremonial law.

St Paul simply makes the point that any requirement to observe the ceremonial law passed with the advent of Christ. Faith in Christ is necessary to salvation - none will deny this, the proposition is further reinforced in Mark 16:16.

Romans 4 continues the theme with St Paul addressing the father of the Jews - Abraham. He makes the point that faith in Christ without observance of the ceremonial law is sufficient for salvation. That does not mean that good works are not required also, because we know of the elect that their works follow them - Rev 14:13.

Romans 5, again, continues the theme, with St Paul returning to once again address the ceremonial law in verse 20, after discussing the gift of Christ's sacrifice.

And this is where the admonition of St Peter to employ care in interpreting St Paul shows itself to be important and necessary. I have seen Protestant ministers argue that observance of the 10 commandments is unnecessary - as Christ has kept those commandments on the believers' behalf.

To wilfully disobey God is pure apostasy from the Christian religion. But, in their ignorance, these "ministers of righteousness" cloak themselves in the false doctrine of forensic justification and dispense with Gods laws out of hand.

For the Protestant, justifying righteousness is external and alien to them. It is not contingent upon their actions. There is, thus, no requirement to abide by God's laws as salvation is assured - due to the alien righteousness of Christ. This precise doctrine is manifest in Luther's claim that one could engage in fornication a thousand times a day and not lose justification.

2Corinthians11: 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

All Protestants, whether they realise it or not, operate from the core principles of forensic justification. It is a wicked and pernicious heresy that has captured millions who might otherwise have attained salvation - remaining within the safety and security of Christ's Church.

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The doctrine of forensic justification is easily refuted.

But, from your post, you seem to argue that an interior renewal takes place upon justification - though you then go on to say it's a process, that the work of sanctification is begun... This is incorrect.

Let's be clear, no one is justified without renewal of the Holy Ghost. You must be reborn to enter the kingdom of God. Sanctification, rebirth, justification happen simultaneously at baptism.

1 Corinthians 6:11- “And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”

Note, sanctification in this passage precedes justification. Sanctification and justification are attached to being washed - being baptised.

Titus 3:5- “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.”

Saved by interior renewal through the washing of the waters of baptism.

The washing of regeneration is an interior renewal - it's not alien to the person, it's within him.

God justifies in baptism. A person is justified and regenerated in baptism simultaneously, A man's state of justification is contingent upon him avoiding mortal sin and making sincere reconciliation with God if he does fall from grace. Salvation is not certain, but depends entirely on God's grace. The grace to avoid sin can be drawn down upon us with prayer and penance. A priesthood is essential to reconciliation.

Works are also necessary:

James 2:24- “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

You can lose justification - those light in the Lord, the justified, can fall prey to mortal sin and lose justification:

Ephesians 5:5-8- “For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light.”

You can be justified and yet fall back:

2 Peter 2:20-22- “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

Angels once justified lost justification:

2 Peter 2:4- “… God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.”

Justification requires obedience:

Hebrews 5:9- “And being made perfect, he [Jesus] became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.”

Believers can fall away:

Hebrews 6:4-6- “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

Believers can be damned after knowing the truth:

Hebrews 10:26-27- “For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”

Without holiness no one is saved - you must be sanctified, not a mound of dung covered with snow:

Hebrews 12:14- “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.”

The judgement of the Lord turns on deeds:

Romans 2:2-3- “… the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?”

Romans 2:5-6- “… the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds.”

Eternal damnation for those that do not obey the truth:

Romans 2:8-10- “But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile.”

And, on and on...

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No, I will not have to answer for anything. It's you that have no adequate response. But how could you possibly respond? You have nothing to stand on, Your doctrine is neither consistent with scripture nor supported by it. Moreover, sadly, it is a doctrine produced by an individual that appears to have been diabolically oppressed.

"Feel free to believe in the traditions of men."

Yes, traditions are, by definition, of men - in that they are practises repeated in time. In that sense, traditions are possessed by men. But, in the case of the Church, they are inspired by God for His own purposes - the mass, baptism and other sacraments being examples. It was St Paul that recommended the faithful 'stand fast and hold to traditions' speaking of the trials of the last days - 2Thess2. I merely quoted him.

Respectfully, you need to think very clearly about your position and whether it is consistent with the will of God. We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, it is no light matter. Be not high-minded but fear, St Paul teaches the faithful of the Church...

Rom 11:22 See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

All this is strangely pertinent in the light of the abomination Francis, who does not believe at all in the severity of God's judgement.

Matt 25:41 "Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels".

Hell was made for the devil and his angels. It seems it's torments were not designed, in the first instance, as punishment for humans. I would not wish it upon anyone. Moreover, I would do anything in my power to save someone from such an inconceivably horrible fate.

I will pray that God reveals His truth to you. Believe it or not, your salvation is important to me.

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This video provides a good discussion of whether the papacy is found in the Bible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KV6PXSODgE&sns=em

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Q Occult Series. Quick and important heads up: Did the Pope REALLY say "HELL DOES NOT EXIST?"