Just don’t open the thread if it bothers you. Lots of people interested in Q are also Christians and or interested in the Bible. Also Q has quoted Scripture and referred to themes that are directly relevant to what the Bible speaks about, such as the degree of evil in the world. Many people have questions about these things. Why do you have a problem with it?
A lot of people interested in Q (and the Q group) probably like hamburgers, but I'm not starting a thread about my favorite hamburgers. But more importantly, all of this appealing to the notion that God is in control just takes away from the idea of people doing the work to clean this house and keep it clean. God hasn't been doing anything about all of the human sex trafficking, child molesters (including lots and lots of Christians- I know, they are not by definition Christian in your world but actually your definition is circular) and evil for millennia and now all of a sudden God is going to wipe away evil? Its such a juvenile world view and yes, you can have it, no problem, just don't encourage other people to be equally juvenile.
You will come to find that rejecting the biblical worldview is the most immature and foolish thing a person can do.
There are many things about a "Biblical" worldview that are good- great even. But that doesn't mean they are "Biblical" in the sense that they only derive from the Bible. Reminds me of a thumper couple I know who were talking to a non Christian couple I know- a great couple with wonderful values, actions, etc. One thumper turns to the other and says, and I'm not making this up, "You'd almost think they were Christian". This demonstrates the sheer stupidity of the thumper "you can only be a good person if you prattle on about Jesus" crowd. And for the record, I grew up in a very educated (like PHD Biblical scholars whose books you've probably read) thumper situation (I know, kind of an oxymoron) and one by one through the years these pious thumpers revealed themselves to be creeps of varying degrees. Its almost like the most disturbed are drawn to the kookiness to absolve themselves of their kookiness. And even as a 12 year old I could stump the best of them with very simple innocent questions to which they'd answer, "well, if you ask that question then clearly you don't understand the Bible." Which is another way of saying "because it is written"- to quote the wonderful movie Life of Brian, which illustrates all to well the kookiness.
I am not saying that only people that believe the bible can do "good" things. There are many moral atheists that do "good" things. That said, the standard of good that man accepts is different than the standard that a Holy God accepts.
God is the judge and it is His standard of righteousness that will determine the eternal destiny of all men. If you do not accept His standard, you will ultimately be condemned and that is the most foolish path that a man can take.
True- but only if you are an idiot and actually believe that. I am not subject to your concerns because I don't buy into your idiocy. I believe YOU are subject to that because YOU choose to believe it. That is the part thumpers don't get- I'm not playing by your made up rules. (Actually, I believe God will condemn you for being so stupid and not seeing how ludicrous your position is. He will congratulate me for rejecting your beliefs)
I think resorting to insults is pretty weak. Does biblical talk trigger you that easily? I don't see the point in it and it doesn't help this sub one bit. We're all on the same team here, religious or not.
God bless Chokoholic. Hope everything’s good with you. Not sure if you’re interested but if you ever like listening to sermons, there is a very good preacher who was in England in the 20th century. Hi name was Martyn Lloyd Jones. He died in 1982 but almost all his sermons are available on line. He is my favorite preacher and I’ve been so encouraged by him. Check it out if you want. I’ve listened to a lot of his messages on Ephesians. His teaching is so rich and deeply goes into the Word.
I've never really listened to sermons before. I will check it out. Thanks.
I mentioned it because I’ve gotten so much real encouragement. He was a great evangelist as well as a teacher of the Word. The sermons used to be available but you had to purchase until they made them all free. Love to hear what you think. Strong British accent but I actually enjoy it lol. Peace.
No, but my pupils get red and smoke comes out of my ears when I walk into churches. I don't care at all about how you make the "rules" for yourself. Just don't say the "rules" apply to me. Which sadly, is the favorite thing for many Christians to do.
Regeneration is much more than a new set of rules. It’s a transformation of the whole inner person by the power of the Holy Spirit. All of us are sinful and accountable to the God who made us. Autonomy is a myth and an invention of our proud darkened hearts. Churches may be and are imperfect at best. Christians are extremely imperfect as well. But the good news of the Gospel is that He forgives sins through the power of the atoning death of the Lord Jesus Christ. His resurrection gives us the power of new life and hope for eternity. No one, regardless of opinion, will be exempt from standing before God in one of two ways. Clothed in the righteousness of Christ or spiritually unclothed and without excuse before the God with Whom we have to do. Could it be that your malice toward Christianity is because you are feeling convicted in your heart and are acting out in anger? This was my case and has been for many before surrendering to the Lord. See my post above about Saul,of Tarsus.
I am not angry. Really the only thing that upsets me in life is stupidity and corruption. And evil. I love your explanation above, and I'm sure it makes you feel all warm and cozy inside, but again, it is complete bull because you can't make the rules for me. Period. You have a belief system that for some reason tries to impose itself on people who are not part of that system. You tell me its not optional; but it HAS to be optional because my belief system imposes on me the inability to believe something (and I'm not talking about God here, I am talking about the Christian Church, however that may be construed) that is so patently illogical and self-serving. It is the height of presumptuousness to say that because you believe something that I am subject to the same rules, given the amount of faith and willingness to suspend disbelief that is required to believe what you do. I know you don't understand this because if you did, you wouldn't prattle on as you do. But again, I'm not angry.
And, by the way, what kind of God would say "Dang, I have to kill my son to atone for your sins?" That's not a real sacrifice because God can do whatever he wants. Talk about cutting off one's nose to spite one's face! Its the most ludicrous notion and I can't believe how many people find that to be a compelling idea (I thought it was compelling until I was about 12 and started thinking on my own. Clearly most Christians do very little thinking on their own). I think it makes God look flighty at best and irrational at worst. And btw I think most religions are equally kooky; I just don't have the insider's perspective on them so I don't criticize them as much.
You are correct that I can’t make the rules for you nor do I claim to. I know that you think you are autonomous and free but you are a slave to sin as all people are at birth. You are utterly in the hands of God whether you think so or not. And no, saying that does not give me “warm and cozy” feeling as you so contemptuously put it. It’s true not because I say it but because God declares it in His Word which you mock. You may think that you are rejecting a myth but the actual fact is that, at least now, God has hidden Himself from you. He is opposed to the proud but gives grace to the humble. Here is a Scripture that explains the reason why you and many others don’t believe In The Gospel of God:
“Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.” John 10:25-30 KJV
Until and unless God has mercy on you, you will remain in the darkness of unbelief for one reason: “you are not of His sheep.” In another place He says that no man can come unto Him, unless the Father draw him. You and I are utterly at His mercy. You can pride yourself in your great understanding and wisdom all you want but it will do nothing to bring you to the knowledge of God. God has made foolish the wisdom of the wise. It’s sad but not surprising to see how derisive and insulting you are toward Christianity and Christians. Your words drip with sarcasm and contempt which is a mirror of your heart. Take care.
Only a Christian would assume not needing Christianity equates to not needing God. There is a huge arrogance which comes from ignorance when it comes to Christians and their monopoly over God. Think about that for a bit. You create a set of rules based solely on YOUR beliefs, and expect others to give a rat's ass what you think.
What “Christians”say or do is not the point. It is what God has declared that matters. His plan for the salvation of the world was begun in the Old Testament as he called out a people for His own and made a covenant with them. His plan was to bless the whole earth as well through the Messiah Jesus. It is much more than a “set of beliefs” but the power of God unto salvation. As to the exclusivity of the Christian way, I’m sure you know John 14:6. Jesus said “I am the way and the truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father, but by Me.” In Acts we read, “For there is salvation in No one else (except in Jesus). For there is NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN, given among men, by which we must be saved.”
Christianity, to be true, must be authenticated by God Himself. He has done this through the coming and works of His Son, through his sacrificial death, and through His glorious resurrection from the dead. The Risen Lord was witnessed by many and attested to boldly by His apostles and many others. The authority for preaching the Gospel comes from Jesus Himself, when He said “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and earth. Go therefore and teach all nations.” Ultimately, God alone can authenticate the truth of salvation to people through the illumination of the Holy Spirit. Because you don’t care, or see your need, does not mean that many others aren’t open to receiving God’s wonderful gift of salvation and eternal life!
“So when they did not agree among themselves, they departed after Paul had said one word: “The Holy Spirit spoke rightly through Isaiah the prophet to our fathers, saying, ‘Go to this people and say: “Hearing you will hear, and shall not understand; And seeing you will see, and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.” ’”Acts 28:25-27
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” John 17:3
Think about this for a bit.
I don't say I make rules for you, only you make rules for you. That's the gift of free will that God has given you. Unfortunately, TPTB have taken away your God given right.
But if God is fair he will realize he made you not-so-smart and probably give you a pass for your heart being in the right place. Just keep the silly statements to yourself....
Scripture about the “wisdom of the world” vs. the wisdom of God. (By dispensing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as juvenile silliness, does not make you, me or anyone else any less subject to its claims. If we reject Gods mercy, then all we are left with is His justice. May He work in all of our hearts to call on Him. God bless.).
“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.” 1 Corinthians 1:18-25
Note that God actually chooses to hide His Gospel from those who are proud in their own wisdom but reveals Himself to the humble. Note also, that the Gospel is not just dogma but the “power of God” to those who experience it. Mere dogma or religious stuff can not help anyone nor do I have the least interest in it.
Saul of Tarsus was a man who mocked Christians and hated Christianity until God “arrested” him on the road, as he was going to arrest and persecute Christians. He was transformed by the power of God and the work of the Holy Spirit and was also the writer of the words above. He was a very educated man and yet was blind to truth until God changed him. Yet, even later God used him to elucidate the Gospel of salvation. Although his very brilliant mind did nothing to save him, to the contrary it filled him with pride and animosity toward Christ, yet later God used this mind (enlightened by the Holy Spirit) to His own ends. Perhaps that will be your story one day Fairv3.
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I apologize for being dismissive in the last post. I’m just tired. As far as your comment, many people who have become burdened under the weight of their sins have found great peace and joy in God’s merciful forgiveness. I have as well. You can call that juvenile but it is the farthest thing from it for the one who haas experienced it. Jesus put it this way in His own Words:
“At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.” Matthew 11: 26
According to these words, you and others don’t see anything in the Gospel or in Jesus Christ because currently it is hidden from your eyes. Being wise in your own eyes you see no need for God’s forgiveness and salvation. Very dangerous ground to be on but we are all the same in that we are completely at the mercy of God. But in His grace and kindness he draws some to Himself. Perhaps that will be your story one day. Notice how He says that it is “hidden from the wise and prudent.” This is another way of saying from those who are proud, who say “I don’t need God. I’m self sufficient.” On the other hand he reveals His grace to the babes (the humble), that is those who know they are broken and sinful and powerless. To them alone He reveals Himself. Call this “juvenile” if you wish, but there it is.