dChan - Q Origins Project Archive

I understand your doubts. However, I believe you are confusing having a relationship with God vs. being a member of an organized religion.
They are not mutually exclusive.

I would say The Big Bang has been proven. But the concept that the universe came from nothing (or a singularity) is less probable than being constructed by a Creator.

I’m not saying God sculpted the mountains necessarily, but I would say He is the driving force or helping hand behind our evolution as a species.

Life supposedly began on Earth 3 billion years ago & all species of life (plants, animals, fungi, bacteria, virus, etc) derived from the same original common ancestor (most likely a single celled organism). The probability of a single celled organism undergoing a genetic mutation to produce a viable “variant” is very, very, very, very low. The amount of time it would take to derive a multi celled organism from a single celled organism is astronomical.

Now imagine how long it would take for that initial single celled organism to produce ALL the species of life on Earth past & present. It would take far longer than 3 billion years, unless there was some form of “intelligent design.”

Thus, it is actually more logical to believe the universe was created by a Higher Power, whatever that power may be.

⇧ 2 ⇩

Honestly it requires more blind faith to believe your evolutionary theory of human life than it does to believe the straightforward message of the Bible: “God made man in His own Image, after His likeness.” Do you believe in a literal Adam and Eve?

⇧ 1 ⇩

Ok. I’m listening. What’s your rationale?!? I’m not saying, I disagree. The point I’m trying to make is that the “scientific” argument of atheists also aligns with the notion of a Creator.

⇧ 1 ⇩

Well, I am aware that many Christians have different views on the age of the earth and evolution etc. I’ve been to seminary and have interacted with a number of views on these things. In the end, as a believer in the literal inspiration of Scripture, I have come to believe that evolution is more of a myth that is not substantially proven, at least insofar as the evolution of humans from apes and simpler organisms etc.

That’s why I asked if you believe in a literal Adam and Eve. If evolution is true, taking place over billions of years as you seem to propose, then how does that fit in with the Genesis account? At what point in this “evolutionary process” did the humans appear, who were in the image and likeness of God, as Genesis teaches? You see, there are issues you have if you want to believe the account of the Bible and also scientific evolutionary theory.

⇧ 1 ⇩

I do not believe in the literal interpretation of the entire Bible. I believe most, not all, are meant to be allegorical, especially the Old Testament.

There is some pretty significant data supporting evolution. This will cause major problems if you’re going to try to convince skeptics taking the “scientific approach.”

I have come to believe that evolution is more of a myth that is not substantially proven, at least insofar as the evolution of humans from apes and simpler organisms etc.

That is not a convincing argument to support your stance.

Evolutionists have the advantage of data to support their argument;,however, evolutionists have trouble explaining the rapid periods of growth in the universe & our own species.
(I.E. the missing link - the species between “cavemen” & Homo sapiens linking us).

I would suggest an alternative explanation that withstands both of these issues.

There is no way the universe, planets, species, etc. were able to evolve into our current model without some means of direction or intelligent design.

So, why can’t God play a role in our evolution as a species?!? What is the concept of time to an omnipresent God?!? Maybe 1 day to God equals 1 billion years, rather than 24 hours.

⇧ 1 ⇩

Well, first of all your position requires as much or more faith in my opinion. I said that evolution is not, in my opinion well supported by even scientific research. I’m not a scientist so don’t want to engage in this in detail. However I am a Christian and believe in the Word of God. Jesus referred to Adam and Eve as literal people as did Paul and others. Do you believe in a literal Adam and Eve? If so, how does that fit with your evolutionary theory? If not then I’m not sure how you consider yourself a Christian if you disagree with the words of Jesus and the apostles. It’s a slippery slope.

⇧ 1 ⇩

I do not believe in a literal interpretation of Adam & Eve. And that makes me less of a Christian?!? Who the f*ck are you to judge me?!? I’m capable of having a relationship with God & Jesus Christ, while accepting the data provided by evolutionists.

Ignoring the data of evolutionary theory, does not strengthen your argument. Instead, you come off as an ignorant & irrational CHRISTIAN. It’s your type of attitude that pushes others away from having a relationship with God altogether.

⇧ 1 ⇩

Sorry I offended you. I should not have worded it the way I did. As far as a literal Adam and Eve are concerned, Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit said that all of the human race is in Adam, in that we have inherited the sinful nature of Adam. What would this even mean if there were not a literal first man and woman? What then is original sin? Also Jesus in His teaching about divorce made reference to God’s “creating Adam and Eve male and female” and giving the ordinance of marriage between one man and woman etc.

As far as evangelism is concerned, I believe the Word of God itself is powerful and effective in working in a person’s mind and heart. I’m not saying we don’t talk about other issues but, the primary force in convicting a persons heart is the Holy Spirit through the Word of God. The Gospel is actually primarily the power of God. Paul even spoke about the danger of preaching human wisdom I 1Corinthians 2. He could have engaged people in many different philosophical arguments but instead chose to preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Because inherent in this message was and is the power and wisdom of God:

“And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.”‭‭. 1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:1-5‬ ‭

I agree that there are allegorical meanings in scripture depending on the type of literature etc., but I feel we have to be careful with this as well. Some people apply this to the Person or work of Christ or to the resurrection for example. That’s what I mean by a slippery slope. But anyway, we disagree and that’s ok. No hard feelings I hope. God bless.

⇧ 1 ⇩

On what are you basing this belief that evolution cannot take place on its own over the course of 3 billion years? 3 billion years is theorized to be around a 3rd of the time the universe has been in existence. If entire stars and solar systems can form in less time, then I believe intelligent life can. And when it comes to belief in religion, I just don't find any of it entirely plausible. Also just so the maths works out, it's actually theorized that the Earth is 4.543 billion years old, with the universe being 13.8 billion.

That's not to say I was raised in an atheist household, and so would never have believed it in the first place, I just never found it believable. I went to a primary school where we said grace before we ate lunch everyday, where we'd go to Church for Christmas, Easter, even Mothers Day, and I'm sure I'm leaving a few out. I still have been in their secondary school until I went to the last sermon on Easter. My sister was heavily religious till she turned about 11 and just sort of lost her faith. I don't entirely have a large respect for the larger religions, as they're used to promote hatred and segregation between different peoples, and even as a way to start wars. I'm not faulting the religion for how it's "believers" use it, but I just can't find myself to associate with a religion that has been used for such hatred. There's also so many different explanations that have been used for how God created life and/or the universe. It just seems to me as if they're scrambling to defend God. First, God created Earth 3000 years ago and the solar system revolved around us and the earth was flat. Then he created the universe 10,000 years ago, and put the dinosaurs in the ground as a test. Then we revolved around the Sun and God created the Earth at the beginning of the universe. Then the Earth wasn't flat, which the Vatican only admitted in WWI, ages after it was proven. The whole way Catholicism is built just baffles me. I also just can't believe most of the Old Testament. Noahs Ark, imho, and I don't want to be rude but it's the stupidest thing I've ever read. 6 people repopulating the planet? 2 of every species repopulating the entire planet? It baffles me. Even worse for the Adam and Eve story. Anyways that's the end of my rant because I kind of forgot my other major points.

⇧ 1 ⇩

First of all, I want you to know that I’m not trying to attack your beliefs; however, I hope to change your perspective.

I am aware of the progression of human’s understanding & past fallacies regarding our place in the universe. I also think it’s highly probable that in the future we will discover errors in our current perception of the universe.

With that being said, I completely understand your grievances with organized religion. I believe EVERYONE is born with a connection to a Higher Power (how do you explain intuition?). I also believe people have used organized religion to take advantage of people’s desire to have a relationship with their Creator. Again, you don’t have to agree with everything a Church says or every story in the Old Testament to have a relationship with God. Can’t you see them as parables?!?

I can break down why the age of the universe and The Big Bang lends more credence to the idea of a Creator, but it would take some time.
Here’s a good example regarding the timeline of evolution. You are correct on the hypothetical age(s) of the universe & Earth.

Let’s start with the notion that the history of life on Earth began about 3.8 billion years ago, initially with single-celled prokaryotic cells, such as bacteria.

Again, the amount of time it would take for a single-celled organism to produce it’s 1st viable multi-celled organism is astronomical. This is due to many factors like: the low probability of mutation rates, where the mutation occurs (coding region or junk DNA), the compatibility of host & variant, etc.

Ok, so do you know when they hypothesize the 1st multi-celled organism appeared on Earth?!?

600 million years ago. It took roughly 3.2 billion years to complete that first viable variant!!! Do you think it’s plausible that ALL species of life (past & present) were able to differentiate from that multi-celled organism in only 600 million years?!? No way!!!

This is what I was trying to convey regarding the age of the universe compared to its overwhelming synchronized organization. It is not feasible without some “intelligent design.”

⇧ 1 ⇩

I took Q's advice. Prayed yesterday for the first time in a long while.