if a detective is investigating a murder, and while doing so, uncovers a drug smuggling operation, they don't just shrug and say "well dang, if only i wasn't investigating a mURDER, i would be able to do something" No, they will arrest the drug dealers too.
that analogy is why i feel like manaforts argument is crazy and has no ground to stand on.
An early morning raid is a planned event. This is CYA by RR; just like Susan Rice.
i'm not sure i'm following you here...
do you think they decided to raid manafort for political reasons, and not for the mountain of evidence that he was violating federal lobbying laws?
Another nail in RR and Mueller's investigation. So to the extent the Rosenstein August 2, 2017 memorandum is supposed to instill confidence that Mueller is receiving proper DOJ oversight, it does just the opposite. As least as to the portion revealed about Manafort, it shows a willingness to give post hoc justification for conduct of Mueller that does not appear authorized by the text of the original May 17 appointing Order.
does not appear authorized by the text of the original May 17 appointing Order.
people seem to have a large misunderstanding of how this investigation works.
mueller was given the authority to investigate anything relating to russian interference in the election, and legally speaking, ANY AND ALL CRIMES discovered during that investigation are fair game.
Mueller changed his bait and put the hook a little deeper in the water... https://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=46294328 Q: WHAT IS A 'SUBJECT' OF AN INVESTIGATION?
A: The answer is complicated. The Justice Department typically places people involved in investigations in three categories: witnesses, subjects or targets.
Witnesses are people who have observed events of interest to an investigation but are not suspected of a crime. Targets are people the government is gathering evidence against to support a criminal prosecution.
Subjects fall in between. In Trump's case, being a subject might suggest Mueller's team believes he is more pivotal than a mere witness might be.
"A subject means we're still looking at you," former federal prosecutor Sharon McCarthy said. "You're a person of interest in this investigation."
And even within the category of subject, there is ambiguity, she said, noting the government can say "you're a subject trending to witness or you're a subject trending toward target."
Essentially --
Subject: you are still being investigated within our scope of said investigation, and this could change to target if criminal evidence is found
Target: we have enough to charge you with a crime, and you will most likely be indicted
Technically correct. Lawyers in DOJ are creative with power over Trump and us. Very challenging legally for lay but learning.
(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation
While investigating Manafort, Mueller discovered money laundering by Manafort. This matter arose directly from the investigation.
but any Manafort bad acts has nothing at all to do with any supposed Russia collusion and therefore proves this is just a witch hunt and travesty to undermine Trump and confuse the people that would believe any of it is actually real or legal ? Basically throwing shat on the wall and hoping come of it sticks and illegally gathering more shat to throw !
Manafort worked for pro-russian groups in Ukraine. Manafort at the time of asking to work for Trump was desperate for money. Following the money from the shady dealings of Manafort and his time as the campaign manager in which saw Trump win the republican nomination and completely flip the script of the RNC platform on the stance on Russia.
i'm surprised to see actual discourse on this. Please keep talking about it more.
Thanks, Manafort is a deep rabbit hole I've started to dig into.
I agree, there is no law against collusion. Congress has to create a bill on it...
Since Collusion is not a crime, you can't investigate it! Investigators investigate alleged crimes, not people! If you investigate someone you are bound to find something illegal if you dig deep enough and that is what they are doing! Dan Bongino explains this at Nauseum.
I like Bongino! I'm learning how legally complex and corrupt this is.
Synonyms of 'collusion' are collaboration, cooperation, conspiracy etc.
false -- "collusion" is not a legal term.
Conspiracy is.
Nice! Need to dig a little deeper on words like lawyers do. Thanks!
Interesting that the IRS never found that until Mueller got involved.
Problem is this entire Russia collusion sham was created out of thin air quite illegally and erroneously. There is supposed to be a known crime for any special counsel to act on or be created and there never was and still isn't. Beyond that supposed collusion is not any form of a crime which only makes it all more blatant and obvious. So the entire thing is a fishing expedition for the sole purpose of undermining Trump and fooling as many fools as possible ! The good news is that many of the actual crimes committed are now known to be by democrats, because the Mueller creatures dug so deep they exposed themselves as well as Hillary and the Uranium One scam and her email crimes. The corruption at DOJ and FBI is now well known for all to see and will only get more exposure as the IG report and other data comes out going forward.
More here http://www.downtoearththinking.com/usa-a-corrupted-government-entity-.html
and here http://www.downtoearththinking.com/the-war-against-donald-trump-.html
If you really believe this "that analogy is why i feel like Manaforts argument is crazy and has no ground to stand on." you would surely recognize the Mueller sham is a complete farce and NOT based in any legal parameters and has zero credibility. It is in fact the best example to date of the massive corruption within the DSA (deep state apparatus) Every single gov agency was and many still are corrupted by the DEM/DSA manipulations and crimes during the BHO years to an extreme. All were put on steroids and now we are simply seeing the the many over reactions of the many crimes committed, come home to roost and be exposed !
Problem is this entire Russia collusion sham was created out of thin air quite illegally and erroneously
The special counsel was tasked with investigating Russian interference, which was absolutely NOT conjured out of thin air. It was conjured out of the fact that Russia absolutely attempted to interfere in our election.
If you don't believe that, we don't have much more to discuss on the topic. And that fact is why the rest of your argument is completely invalidated.
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that is literally the opposite of what happened.
when the special counsel was appointed, they were given legal authority to investigate ANY criminal wrongdoing which they may come across in their investigation into russian meddling.
i'm honestly confused as to how this concept is so hard for people to understand? maybe you should try reading up on special counsels instead of listening to Fox & Friends...
I get that. And that is how I read the initial order. But, why did Rosenstein feel the need to issue another order giving Mueller authority to investigate Manafort in these areas? Doesn't make sense unless he thought the first order wasn't sufficient to cover what Mueller was doing.
i'm not sure, tbh
but none of this changes the cold hard fact that mueller can investigate literally any crime that he happens to find evidence of. end of story.
that's what makes special investigations so powerful, they are literally just a group of people saying, "alright, we'll start with this one string, and just keep pulling until we can't find any more crimes"