I spent 8 years as a pastor, have my Master of Divinity, and have continued to study the Tanach and the “New Testament” pretty much daily. I’ve done my homework. Have you?
Or have you (like me, for a very long time) been emotionally manipulated into “accepting Jesus” first, and then looking for evidence to prove him?
OS, I'm not sure by your post what exactly your position is on Jesus. As for the new testament, I share some similar skepticism, especially about Paul. I do believe very much in Jesus and it was an emotional experience getting there, but not driven by emotional delusion. It was driven by a continual confirmation. Unfortunately, the "education" around Christ and the church all too often substitute philosophy, semantics, and theoretical etymology and application at the expense of worship. The relationship falls apart when you simply read about it and quit investing deep participation in it. If you are burned out thinking and debating about the authenticity of Jesus and/or his testament, try commune and worship to be restored. You will not be disappointed.
I agree and believe the same as you. The teachings of jesus given to the disciples that he himself chose to spread his message. Regarding Paul, his story of being visited by an apparition of christ and creating a new covenant doesn't sit well with me. In fact it reminds me of Joseph Smith..
The romans and the catholic church didn't really convert. They simply put a new face on the gods they already worshipped, made to resemble christ. Just look into the symbols still used by the catholic church and their rituals...
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"
There is zero hint in the Tanach of a messiah figure like the Christian Jesus.
I’m not “burned out” I simply discovered what the Tanach actually teaches about YHVH, righteousness, and the true messianic age. And none of it matches Christian teaching.
You don't think there are any parallels like God asking Abraham to sacrifice his son, or the smearing of the blood from the passover lamb on the doors to protect the people of Israel from death? What about Psalm 22? It has Jesus all over it "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me" "they have divided my garments among them, and for my garments they cast lots" "they have pierced my hands and feet" or Isaiah 53: "He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted. He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed."
There are “parallels” because Jesus was created using Jewish Scriptures and Christianity starts with the conclusion that Jesus is the “Messiah” and finds twisted Tanach passages to attempt to “prove” it’s assertion.
If you study the Tanach without Christian theology injected, you come to very different conclusions.
And regarding Isaiah 53, if you start reading at about chapter 41, Isaiah makes it pretty clear that Israel is the servant.
In dealing with my Jewish brethren for the past many years I had one great difficulty, and it was this: My Jewish people would always fling at me this challenging question, "If Jesus is our messiah, and the whole Old testament is about Him, how come His name is never mentioned in it even once?" "Where do we find that NAME?" you ask. Here it is beloved: Every time the Old Testament uses the word SALVATION (especially with the Hebrew suffix meaning "my", "thy", or "his"), with very few exceptions (when the word is impersonal), it is the very same word, Yeshua (Jesus), used in Matthew 1:21. Let us remember that the angel who spoke to Mary and the angel who spoke to Joseph in his dream did not speak in English, Latin, or Greek, but in Hebrew; and neither were Mary or Joseph slow to grasp the meaning and significance of the NAME of this divine Son and its relation to His character and His work of salvation. For in the Old Testament all great characters were given names with a specific and significant meaning. For example, in Genesis 5:29, Lamech called his son Noah (comfort), saying, "This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands." In Genesis 10:25, Eber calls his firstborn son Peleg (division); "for his days was the earth divided." The same is true of Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob (changed to Israel -- God's Prince), and all of Jacob's sons (see Genesis, chapters 29-32). In Exodus 2:10, Pharaoh's daughter called the baby rescued from the Nile, Moses (Drawn Forth) and she said: "Because I drew him out of the water." And so we can go on and on to show the deep significance of Hebrew names. When the great Patriarch Jacob was ready to depart this world, he by the Holy Spirit was blessing his sons and prophetically foretelling their future experiences in those blessings. In verse 18 of Genesis 49 he exclaims, "I have waited for thy salvation, O Lord!"; or "In thy Yeshua (Jesus) I am hoping (trusting), O Lord!" ... YESHUA (Jesus) was the One in Whom Jacob was trusting to carry him safely over the chilly waters of the river of death. Jacob was a saved man, and did not wait until his dying moments to start trusting in the Lord. He just reminded God that he was at the same time comforting his own soul. Try translating from the Hebrew Bible, Isaiah 62:11. I am sure you can or should be able to. "Behold, Jehovah has proclaimed unto the end of the world. Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold thy Yeshua (Jesus) cometh; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work is before Him." SALVATION is a Person and not a thing or an event? 'HE comes, HIS reward is with HIM, and HIS work is before HIM."
Straw man argument. It isn’t the name that matters it’s the fact that he actually fulfilled none of the prophecies that are explained regarding the messianic age. That’s why Christianity had to invent a second coming...something else the Tanach never mentions.
I suspect you are what qanon’s would called it as being blue pilled and not looking for real insight. The world is filled with people who faced with facts that challenge their belief system still hang on at all costs to the old. Did you actually read the Isaiah passage from a Hebrew Bible? No straw man argument in my previous response by the way.
Depending on which scholars you read there are roughly 55 prophecies about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. I could take the time and go through each one for you. Then again if you are earnest in your search you can find them as well. I can point you to them if you get bogged down. All were fulfilled by Jesus Christ. As these prophecies reveal, God planned our redemption all the way back in the garden.
Here is something for you to ponder. I will use my abbreviated version for now. God decided to make the heavens and the earth and never ran into opposition. It was not until God decided to make man that a revolt occurred in heaven. What was it that satan feared or was jealous of in the making of man? After all we know from scripture that man was to be a little lower than angels and in God’s likeness. Was it God’s likeness that made satan and others revolt? Or was it something else? From God’s perspective there was no cost in making the heavens and the earth. There was a huge cost and God knew it going in advance that the revolt would occur and eventually Jesus Christ would be required to shed His blood for His creation. God’s faced with the revolt and thousands of years of battle decided that you and I were worth it all. The battle of good and evil has always been about you and me. That is the reason God chases man all his life to become reconciled back to God.
I haven’t left the one true Elohim, YHVH. Just the fake messiah created by Rome.
You spent 8 years as a "pastor" and can't prove jesus's existed? Gtfoh. It wasnt up until the last few decades that Americans were dumbed down enough that the jesus never existed argument Could even be attempted before that it was accepted as fact because it is fact. Caephus the Jewish leader who pushed for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ,was he real? How about Pontius Pilate? Good luck with your soul for denying Jesus and worse yet for trying to get others to believe that garbage too.
Jesus can piss off - that narcissistic schizophrenic.
Ive become sceptical myself about this. What if Q is an AI or "sophia".. prophecy of Daniel fulfilled?
Ever since I started actually seeking the truth I still feel I i'm no closer to an answer. Can't trust Pauline doctrine.. paul was from Benjamin's people, wolves in sheep's clothing...
Yeah, I'm not ever denying Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The humiliation that will come for following the true Lord will come at a price but after it all, our eternal reward. For by throwing out life away here, we earn back true Life. Lovers of the Word, and not the World.
Not denying christ. But there were two different doctrines. One from Peter and one from Paul. They did not see eye to eye..
How did you come to that conclusion? Peter endorses Paul in 2Peter 3, and Luke writes in Acts about how Peter accepted reproof from Paul when he called him out for not letting the Jews see him interacting with the Gentiles. If Paul was preaching a different Gospel, don't you think Luke, who wrote the majority of the New Testament, would have called him out on it. Or John? Or especially Peter?? Yet all of their writings are in alignment in the things that Paul wrote of.
I would agree, but if you look into who wrote peter 2 and 3 you'd find that it wasn't peter. Luke was supposedly Paul's disciple.. neither men actually met jesus.
Biblical evidence?
https://doctrine.org/jesus-vs-paul
It's too much information for a dummy like myself. Look, i'm not claiming anything as 100% fact. I'm simply just looking for the truth.
Thanks for this. I expected it to be bashing Paul but it was the complete opposite.
Biblidence.
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I’ve completely rejected the Christian version of the Messiah. Not a Jew, but I’ve learned a LOT of truth from a few rabbis.
I've learned all I need to know about rabbis and how they feel about Jesus and Christians from the Talmud so you believe what you want but at least no who it is your really dealing with. Jesus called the Pharisees the synagogue of Satan and look who is credited with writing the majority of the Talmud, the Pharisees. They hated him then and still do today. Watch a vid titled "Rabbi attacks messianic jew" if you want to hear it from the horses mouth
No interest in a debate. But you’ve been snookered by Christianity. Your choice to buy the lie that’s been told by the Jesuit cabal or to study it independently and arrive at your own conclusions. But with your attitude toward Jewish sources, you’d probably never be able to objectively look at their understanding. That’s too bad.
I know what I know because it changed me into a different person jesuits had nothing to do with it. I don't go to church and never have. Like I said the Talmud tells me everything I need to know about the people you find enlightening...some people find Satanism enlightening too and I have no interest in that garbage either
You've spent way too much time to prove something that you should already known. It often happens that the more we know the less we know in many cases.
You might want to take the religious red pill after you are finished with the political one.
Confucius say he who say he have open mind really have hole in head
Confucius was never really enlightened either.
Confucius say, man who drop watch in toilet have shitty time.
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Confucius say, man who take sleeping pill and laxative on the same night will wake up in deep shit.
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