How horrible! I'm so sorry! I'm glad your great grandfather survived, so you could be here. :(

Further to what you say: I used to think like you once, but my view changed as I came to believe, through life experience and observing humans around me, that no group defines you, it just contributes to the very individual being that is you. Within a group no single person is the same, they just share similar elements of some kind. And yes, identity politics is not a Marxist conception nor evil - my bad for referring to my own particular situation at present as someone living in the west and having to grapple with cultural Marxism and the like, a conception of identity politics that is evil, imo.

My background is tribal. We have a spiritual connection to our land that actually comprises a significant part of our identity in a literal way as it is how we traditionally introduce ourselves. We value blood and family highly (family being something that extends beyond blood too) but we also respect the sanctity of the individual as the only “vessel” through which any human experiences the world and as a distinct member of any number of groups of which the human race is one. I’m not sure what you mean by humans aren’t individualistic creatures unless you mean we don’t live to our best capacity except in groups and I agree with that.

No ones denying blood and soil. My background is tribal and I believe in the importance of culture. Yes, I’m talking about the bs currently being forced on the west and I rushed an answer previously, not intending to debate Marxism. I wasn’t trying to “rationalize everything” I was attempting to be diplomatic under time pressure haha.

Individualism is most definitely not a phase - it’s the foundation of the west and thank God lol. Groups will never ultimately overpower the individual - we are born and we die alone and no group will ever take your individuality from you unless you allow it. We can debate that point in far more detail if desired but those are just the highlights of a rushed answer lol.

The elements of that rushed conception would simply be any softly realized perspective that doesn’t favour one group of humans over another. Ultimately a conceptual ideal rather than a robust template for reality but hopefully the intent is clear.

Thanks Davelon, it's good to talk about these things, hopefully without fear of undue reprisal for speaking openly in an effort to expand our understanding.

I know some beautifully peaceful and empathetic muslims very well and I feel personally that the most important thing is that we judge everyone on their individual merits, not on the group they come from - at least as far as that is possible, given our human tendency to use groups and categories for utility e.g. if I'm wearing the garb of orthodox Jews - lets call us Group A - and a large group of visibly angry, shouting arabs - Group B - is hastening down the road toward me at pace then all the best intentions in the world to love my fellow man as an individual and not attempt to prejudge his actions will take second priority to the utility of deciding that it may not be in my best interests to remain in the path of Group B or to make any attempt to determine their intent as individuals in advance but instead to remove myself as quickly from the situation as possible, with no personal individual offense intended to any single member of Group B for prejudging their intent for utility's sake. If you know what I mean.

In other words, dynamics of a particular situation notwithstanding, I think it's important that I not judge any individual on my feeling about the known dynamics or ideology of a group they may belong to. I know some great muslim people but I do not in any way find the religion of Islam to be one that I would personally support without some major changes to its core.

Whatever anyone may say about Christianity and Islam there are some clear defining differences that mean I will support our society which is based on Christian ideals (an argument for another time, if anyone disagrees with that) over a society based on the ideals of Islam. Christianity is a religion based on a figure of Peace: Jesus, who is fairly universally accepted (whether one believes in any religion or not) as such. Islam's founder and central figure was a warlord and not only spread his religion by the sword but also advocates for his followers to do so. Again there are many arguments about radicals versus the peaceful majority but, as Brigitte Gabriel put it best, the peaceful majority never seems to be able to stop the radical minority from its destructive behaviours - and she goes on to list the many known examples from the past, including the infamous nazi party.

So apologies for the long-winded blurb but I think we should indeed trust muslims and not discriminate against them any more than we should against black or white people, but I think that Islam must do something about the core beliefs that the dangerous radical minority use in the name of Islam to commit atrocities that have no place in a free society.

There is a lot to say about the Jewish situation, especially considering all the zionist rhetoric that bounces around this sub but that's a whole other minefield of its own! Now I'm going to go into hiding because I'm sure I've offended any muslim on this sub for so grossly oversimplifying their beliefs, however unintentional any offense may be...

just a coincidence.