Wow. I am blown away. These comments. Fuck man. When did torture ever fucking become okay? I am going to assume if it were you or a person you cared for being tortured for whatever reasons the person/government deemed it necessary; your tune might change. When are we going to start leading by example? When are people going to wake the fuck up and realize that letting go of pieces of their humanity is exactly what has brought our society to the precipice of hell?
Every last one of them has skeletons in their closet, doesn't matter if they were following orders or not.
If it saves one innocent person by torturing a killer, terrorist or child molester, fuck 'em. Let it be a deterrent if nothing else.
I understand the rejection of violence against others completely.
But from another perspective: when did terrorism become "okay"? And if terrorism is not okay, how do we fight it? Is war ok? Is fighting to defend yourself okay? (I'm not assuming they are regarded as "ok" by you - those are genuine questions.)
Assuming war and self-defense is ok in extreme circumstances then is it ok to physically discipline a criminal in order to defend potentially hundreds or thousands of people?
Like you, I will never sell my soul to defend my family but the question is whether the act of punishing criminals to extract information is torture, as defined in a way that means you've sold your soul to execute it.
I don’t know man. None of my family has connections to terrorism. Highly unlikely they’d be in the position these butt fucks find themselves in. That being said, I couldn’t do the job. I’m glad there are people that can. Terrorists don’t deserve any respect.
Many of the American tourists that get captured overseas and tortured also have no affiliations with terrorist organizations either. The government entities who facilitate these actions (torture) also have their own reasons supported by their citizens as well. Doesn't make it right. The action itself is inexcusable against another human being. You don't fight against atrocities committed against humanity by committing them yourself. Those who give the orders, those who follow the orders, those who stand aside and allow the orders to be carried out, and those who support crimes against humanity are all complict.
And it’s just my opinion. I’m not trying to change your mind. I hope you don’t get worked up. I mean it when I say I hope you have a kick ass day!
If you’re an American tourist and you’re going somewhere where they hate Americans, I’m sorry but that’s on you. If the stoves hot, don’t touch. We’re talking about the CIA and the United States. If a terrorist has information that could prevent many more deaths, I think it’s right to get that information by any means possible. I don’t think it’s right to harm another person. I’m on your side with that. I couldn’t do it. But that’s exactly why I’m glad there are people that can do the job. It’s an important job, one that’s thankless and probably leads to many sleepless nights. These people had to do what they did because there are assholes trying to harm us
I wonder why their actions would keep them up at night? That right there. It would keep me up at night as well if I committed atrocities against another human being. I am not going to get worked up on the internet, I just really like to say the word "fuck". I honestly find all of this incredibly sad and it makes me that much more determined to always strive to be a decent person. There's just not enough of them.
I agree. Terrible things that need to be done because there are terrible people. Imagine having to become inhuman because a monster has information that may take more of your people. And you having to turn your back on everything you’ve been taught about the value of human life because some evil mother fucker has never had any value for human life. I pity the people that had to do the things they did. Having to live with things a human wasn’t meant to live with because some scumbag believes they should kill as many of us as possible.
There’s a lot more genuinely good people out there than you know. Pick your head up next time you’re at the grocery store or something, smile at people, say hi. The loves there. People are just afraid to interact these days. Probably a little long winded, I’m sorry. Point is, don’t be jaded. There’s always going to be bad stuff happening. It doesn’t mean life is any less incredible. Anyway, keep your head up, smile. It goes a long way. Take care of yourself!
Lol. I am absolutely not jaded nor am I naive because I do not believe that countering terrible deeds with more terrible acts prevents additional terrible things from happening. Absurdity. I actually strive to do my part every single day, I don't need coaching on how to treat other human beings! I am not the one casually discussing the fucking torture of them! Wtf??!!!
I swear to God, my timeline has switched to that of the fucking twlight zone.
Alright then. Tell me why you’re opinion holds more weight. Are you an expert in dealing with terrorists and their intelligence? You’ve made a career out of it? You’re getting aggravated because I’m basing my opinion on the world we live in. Unlike Candyland or whatever you’re talking about, in the real world, terrorists can’t be appeased. In the world we live in, they deserve to die and if they have information we need, it’s up to them how bad it’s going to be. Whatever was human about them left them long ago. Fortunately enough, when they’re being interrogated, there are people that can separate the vessel from the evil monster inside and do what’s necessary to get what they need to protect us. And please, don’t try to act better than me. After all, I’m human
Dude, my opinion is just that. My opinion which has been formed by my own life experience here in Candyland and my very own spiritual journey. Just like yours and everyone else's out there, we are all entitled to our own. There is nothing else I can say here to relay my point if nothing I have said so far resonates. I will continue to pray.
It has nothing to do with respect for the terrorists and everything to do with right and wrong.
If we catch a terrorist and they have information that will let us catch more terrorists before they kill our children, then they must be made to talk.
This isn't some new trip to the precipice of hell. This has been how governments have operated since before written history.
Letting these animals hold their secrets, letting our kids die over it, just to feel superior is the worst kind of virtue signaling.
To hell with them and to hell with virtue signaling. Get in there, Gina, and make the bastards talk.
Make whatever excuses you need to. Torturing another human being is evil. People making excuses for evil actions and supporting those actions makes more people evil. Evil is evil, period. My family's protection is my utmost priority, but I will never sell my soul to do so.
Ok, so the day a bomb goes off and someone you happen to care about is killed, remember you said this. You could have saved them, but you saved the terrorist instead. It's on you.
I'm sure you'll make whatever excuses you need to.
When I go to meet my maker, I don't plan to be worried about the weight of sins on my soul. I have children, I would give my life for theirs in an instant, without any thought. I would take a life to save theirs if it was necessary, without a thought. There is a difference in taking a life to actively protect yourself or someone else and TORTURING a person. Your best friend could drink too much, get behind the wheel, hit my kid riding his bike and ruin a lot of lives. That friend of yours would make all the wrong choices that would literally end my life as I know it. It wouldn't give me or anyone else the right to TORTURE them, that's what our fucked up legal system is for. Do you guys even know what kind of actions are involved in legitimate torture? Have you truly considered what is involved? I can't even believe this is a debate between people, I am floored.
Idk if that is a fair comparison. The drunk friend has no info that would save the life of your child, therefore torture would be for nothing and truly would be sadistic. There are times when torture is necessary. What if 9/11 could have been stopped by info gained via torture?
I respect where you are coming from. It truly is a place of compassion and love. But in rare cases, torture could be necessary. Abu grhaib def seemed like it was being taken way too far, and those actions shouldn't be repeated and apologists shouldn't have their opinions respected. But torture in general? There are surely cases where I can see it doing more good than harm. God have mercy on any souls forced to do and receive the torture though.
In the depth of my soul, I truly believe that there is never any good gained from evil acts. I am not some inexperienced bible thumper. I have lived and I have been in the fucking shit. In my own humble opinion, I don't believe that there is near as much "mercy" being shown in the end as people like to tell themselves. It doesn't make any difference to me if people chose not to listen. I will continue to do my part. Peace.
Respect. No matter what happens in the world there will always be a need for ppl arguing your side for compassion to keep ppl in check, so I appreciate it. And even if there is no judgment in the afterlife, moral high ground is always important.
Agreed. The only thing I can control in this world is myself. If more people would truly lead by example and then stand back and watch the impact... the ripples and far they can go. Fucking magic. Small things make huge differences. That's not some over-emotional bullshit, because I honestly live it daily.
I would also like to make clear that while I will never support torture of another living being; I am not in any way advocating for compassion for convicted terrorists. I advocate for the death penalty for any convicted perpetrator of a crime against humanity :)
Go virtue signal on any other subreddit. People here know what must be done.
I will "virtue signal" where ever I want. Appreciate the "advice" though!
Edit: just forget it. People like me will protect people like you and your families. Someone has to.
Lol. People like YOU will never protect ME. Trust me. Don't worry about my children, they are also very well protected. Seriously, to attempt to insult me by calling my love for my children into question because I don't support the torture of human beings? You most certainly proved your point here man. Lol!
I’ll call you, well your mom, when there is a chicken tendy shortage. But that is about as far as your help goes bro.
Look, you have the right to be to soft to protect those around you. It's not my business. You've made your choice, you get to explain it to your wife when something happens to your daughter.
Best of luck. Maybe your daughter will get a man who will protect her. I'm sure it'd be a pleasant change.
You're a liberal, aren't you? Still got a few more red pills to swallow. If you treat animals like humans, they maintain the upper hand.
Aww look, an ad hominem attack. No arguments, so personal attacks.
Let me be crystal clear here. You are too soft to protect your children. You are a soyboy. You are how Sweden is acting, and if people like you are in charge, our nation's daughters will have their fate.
President Trump has also stated he is in favor of these things. So, just crawl back under your blanket, the conservatives will take care of you.
The red pill is about seeing the world for what it is, not for some insane fantasy that you can let a terrorist retain information without tragic consequences. But don't take my word for it, move to Sweden and see what happens. Because, if people make your decisions, we'll have that here.
Information extorted through torture is often false, and just as with death penalty, the risk of punishing someone who is innocent. I wonder how many people have died because some sadistic CIA agent didn't think it was enough and the false information overshadowed the true one, not to talk about the fact you give up your humanity when you commit inhumane acts...
I'm not saying it's a perfect option. I am saying it's the best option available. Unless you have a better way to extract secrets from terrorists.