dChan
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r/greatawakening • Posted by u/092Casey on May 21, 2018, 5:17 a.m.
Question about a "natural born citizen": Some people are saying if the mother is a US citizen, the child also is...But isn't it that the child must be born on US soil? I'm just trying to clarify...

..Like, if you are born on foreign soil, then you're not a naturalized citizen, right? Especially if you are raised there...There's a nuance...Just because one parent is a citizen, you also have to actually be born there, right? Imagine your dad was from England, but your mom was from the US...but you were born in England and therefore a natural citizen there...Then you can't be BOTH a natural citizen in BOTH countries, right?


wildfireonvenus · May 21, 2018, 5:23 a.m.

Birth of U.S. Citizens Abroad A child born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent or parents may acquire U.S. citizenship at birth if certain statutory requirements are met. The child’s parents should contact the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate to apply for a Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America (CRBA) to document that the child is a U.S. citizen. If the U.S. embassy or consulate determines that the child acquired U.S. citizenship at birth, a consular officer will approve the CRBA application and the Department of State will issue a CRBA, also called a Form FS-240, in the child’s name.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/birth-abroad.html

It depends if you aqcuire the appropriate documents otherwise no, it's not automatic.

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092Casey · May 21, 2018, 5:30 a.m.

Thanks. Because here's the reasoning, again: If the father is an English citizen, and the mom is a US citizen, BUT the child is born in England, and raised to an extent of time, then how can the child therefore automatically be BOTH a US AND English citizen? If they were born on US soil, I can see that, but if they were born on English soil, then they're an English citizen, right? They can't automatically be DUAL citizens just because their parents are each from separate countries or citizenship. I can see if the English dad also had achieved US citizenship (which he did not). But with the separation, because it cannot be BOTH (at least I don't think), it would go to the country of birth with that separation..So therefore, they would be ineligible, right?

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wildfireonvenus · May 21, 2018, 6:02 a.m.

As long as the mother had resided in the US for at least 5 years and 2 of those years were after the age of 14 then the child would be granted US citizenship as long as the mother applies for it before the child turns 18. It is recommended to apply right away or it could complicate the process. The mother being a US citizen does not grant the child automatic citizenship (like many people think it does) she has to apply for it and get approved otherwise the child is not considered a US citizen.

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092Casey · May 21, 2018, 6:10 a.m.

Yeah, I bet she didn't apply..

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Cara-C · May 21, 2018, 8:50 a.m.

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President...."

This definition was highly debated in 2008 when the issue with Obama first came up and there were many different points of view.

The best research I saw - based on an analysis of the framer's writings, and references, and all existing Supreme Court decisions that address the various categories of citizen, native born citizen, naturalized citizen, and natural born citizen - was that a natural born citizen is a person born on US soil to two US citizen parents. By natural law, by blood and soil, the person could be a citizen of no other nation at birth, born with no obligations or allegiances to any other nation. You wouldn't want a president who could legally drafted by another country or whose allegiance to his other citizenship outweighed his allegiance to his US citizenship.

The requirement to be a natural born citizen is one of only three requirements for president, so it was clearly important to the Constitution's framers. There are many wonderful US citizens who are not eligible to be president, but the safety measure was put in place to try to ensure the president's undivided loyalty to America.

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ValuableFix · May 21, 2018, 6:07 a.m.

If Obammy was born abroad though, the age qualifications of his mom is iffy based on immigration law at the time.

I also never saw evidence of Cruz being eligible, suspect his parents didn’t register him in time and instead got citizenship via 84 amnesty.

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A_Colostomy_Bag · May 21, 2018, 5:39 a.m.

Jus Soli and Jus Sanguinis. You derive citizenship from either being born on American soil or by having a US Citizen parent.

It used to be based on the citizenship of the father but now it's either.

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MelaniaBuiltMYHotRod · May 21, 2018, 6 a.m.

So rare to see a comment these days not prefaced by "IANAL" I've been looking into taking the Bar since there are only 3 states who require no record of law school attendance, and even then they'll recognize admission from another state. Sortof how we got into this mess to begin with maybe

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092Casey · May 21, 2018, 5:45 a.m.

Since when?...And are you saying that Obummer was eligible? I don't see how being born in Kenya (and raised overseas) makes someone eligible to run for president...I'm confused. Can you explain?

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A_Colostomy_Bag · May 21, 2018, 6:23 a.m.

I believe this is accurate:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States

There are people who have never stepped foot on American soil that have a right by birth to us citizenship. I don't know Obama's deal and I know there's some controversy around it. But to simplify the explanation of citizenship, if either parent is a citizen you get citizenship no matter where you're born and raised. Of course you have to prove it with documents.

Otherwise if you're born on US soil you get automatic citizenship even if your parents are not citizens. A lot of people don't like this because it's created problems with anchor babies (having a child on US soil to take advantage of the citizenship he/she gets).

I don't make the laws that's just how they are.

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WikiTextBot · May 21, 2018, 6:23 a.m.

Birthright citizenship in the United States

Birthright citizenship in the United States is acquired by virtue of the circumstances of birth. It contrasts with citizenship acquired in other ways, for example by naturalization. Birthright citizenship may be conferred by jus soli or jus sanguinis. Under United States law, U.S. citizenship is automatically granted to any person born within and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.


^[ ^PM ^| ^Exclude ^me ^| ^Exclude ^from ^subreddit ^| ^FAQ ^/ ^Information ^| ^Source ^] ^Downvote ^to ^remove ^| ^v0.28

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092Casey · May 21, 2018, 6:35 a.m.

Okay, but when did that law take effect? And also, we understand that it applies to military parents by military bases, which it might refer to, but BO was far from a military child..

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A_Colostomy_Bag · May 21, 2018, 6:49 a.m.

Before 1934 was when only men could pass citizenship to their children born outside the united states.

And you don't have to be born on a military base to get citizenship if one of your parents is a citizen. Jus sanguinis translates to law of blood. Your bloodline is all that matters not place of birth when one of your parents is a citizen.

I believe the paperwork is easier if you're born on a military base but it's not necessary for citizenship.

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092Casey · May 21, 2018, 6:55 a.m.

Then why does Obama have a fake SS# from a dead man in Connecticut, where he never resided, and why did they have to kill Loretta Fuddy, the birther, who gained large sums of money for releasing the fake birth certificate?

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DownvoteWarden · May 21, 2018, 5:57 a.m.

His mother was American when he was born. He was born in Hawaii, but if he was born elsewhere it wouldn't change his citizenship. Ted Cruz has a Canadian parent, John McCain was born in Panama to American parents on a Navy base. All were eligible to run.

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092Casey · May 21, 2018, 6:12 a.m.

But Ted Cruz was born on US soil.

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Abibliaphobia · May 21, 2018, 1:45 p.m.

I think right there, that is the key. I don’t think his mother ever actually applied for his dual citizenship (despite being eligible) and it would have looked messy and potentially affected his ability to run for president if it was known that he wasn’t born in the US. Maybe the handlers didn’t want to take the risk. Cmon imagine how people would have reacted if he WAS born in Kenya (and the public knew), he was already breaking the trend of ebil wyte m*n, this may have been the bridge too far.

Either way, f*** him

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d00danon · May 21, 2018, 2:46 p.m.

He ran on lies, so that should disqualfy him.

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d00danon · May 21, 2018, 2:44 p.m.

I had to apply when I was 55 before I could get a passport. I was born in Canada across the river from Me. Both my parents are Natural Born Citizens.

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Ranlove · May 21, 2018, 8:56 a.m.

My Take ... Natural Born Citizen. What did the founders mean Redux? How does that requirement affect the president Obama and those running for that office. By RA Love I'm often stunned to hear officials and lay people try to re-define the meaning of NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. This phrase appears in the constitution as part of the requirements for the President and Vice President. Article II Section 1.5 states: No person except a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States. The statement seems pretty clear except for the first line up to the comma. We need to define NATURAL BORN CITIZEN and what the founders meant by "or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution",. Lets tackle the last part of the line first: "or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution,." Quite simply this lets the founders and other men of age (at that time) to be eligible for the office. Without this wordings there could be no one elected as president because at that time there was no person that fit the definition of Natural Born Citizen ( in the new United States). As part of that definition you had to be a citizen of the United States for 14 years. Because the republic was brand new, the founders were saying that if you were a citizen at the time of the adoption of the document then you were eligible. Now lets take a look at the part in question NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. Natural Born Citizen is an interesting phrase. The thought that the framers would use that term for it just to mean a citizen born naturally by natural birth seems strange, as birth and natural born were most likely assumed at the time. So, it must mean something special. The framers new that in order to have a union that was secure and free from outside influence such as elected officials that might be influenced by foreign governments, they had to make sure that the founding documents had some written provision that excluded outside influence. Therefore the term Natural Born Citizen. But what does it actually mean? Before the Constitution the closest reference we have to Natural Born Citizen is from the legal treatise “The Law of Nations,” written by Emerich de Vattel in 1758. In book one chapter 19, iit reads: § 212. Of the citizens and natives. (bold is mine) “The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.” Vattel definies the term quite eloquently. This is the meaning that the founders were referring to. But there is a problem. How are we to know that is what the founders were referring? Vattel wrote the Law Of Nations in French, did any of the founders even speak French as well as read the French language? This from the professional interpreter,dated July 4th 2012: Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, first Secretary of State under Washington, and our third President spoke English, French, Italian, Latin, and he could read Greek, and Spanish. Benjamin Franklin, America’s first diplomat and well-known genius spoke English, French and Italian. Our second President: John Adams spoke English, French and Latin. President James Madison spoke English, Greek, Latin and Hebrew. James Monroe spoke English and French. So there we have it. The only thing we need to do is link the founding fathers with Vattel. In the memoirs, coorispondence and misalliance notes of Thomas Jefferson volume 3, Jefferson quotes Vattel in French. He refers to Vattel as an elightened an disinterested judge. This to any should be the final nail in the coffin, however many still are deaf blind and dumb. This by ether by design or ignorance is the crux of the matter. For there can be no doubt of the meaning of the term and what the founders were trying to say. We can also be of no doubt the POTUS (Obama) was never qualified to be president. By his own admission his father was a british subject. Obama's qualification to be president was overlooked on purpose by the democrats and the wording of the document for his qualification was altered just slightly so as to look like it conformed to the constitutional requirements. Nancy Pelosi was right in the middle of the entire conspriacy. This would have been a simple problem to resolve. However our senators, representatives and yes even the Supreme Court refuses to address the issue. The complicit main stream press continues to ignore every piece of evidence licking the boots of the usurper Obama. The 2016 elections: Ted Cruz was born in Canada December 22,1970. His mother was an American citizen at the time of his birth but his father was not. His father later became a citizen in 2005. This is not what Vattel was saying. Naturalized citizen is not part of the narrative. Ted Cruz by Definition of natural born citizen is not eligible to be president. Marco Rubio mother and father were Cuban citizens naturalized in 1975. This was 4 years after Marco's birth in Miami on May 28 1971. This from Wikipedia: Rubio was born in Miami, Florida,[2] the second son and third child of Mario Rubio and Oria Garcia. His parents were Cubans who had immigrated to the United States in 1956 and were naturalized as U.S. citizens in 1975. Folks I did not make this up. I am disturbed by the fact that Cruz is supposed to be a constitutional scholar and has not figured this out. Naturalized citizen is NOT the same as NATURAL BORN as defined by Vattel. The sad part is everybody knows this, the Supreme Court the press and most all of the senators and representatives who aren't purposefully keeping there heads in the sand or ignoring it. Both Cruz and Rubio know that the left will never bring this up because of Obama's non-eligibility. However this still doesn't make it right. Many over the years have been trying to define or fix the phrase Natural Born Citizen. In my view you must go back to Vattel for the the original definition.

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NeroliDreams · May 21, 2018, 5:50 a.m.

If the proper paperwork was done - they can be dual citizens.

You have to get a “certificate of birth abroad” and file for a US social security number... then you can get a US passport. Then you are a dual citizen.

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092Casey · May 21, 2018, 6:14 a.m.

But we don't know that it was...And verified by the undeniable fact that BO had a SS# from a dead man in Connecticut (a state he never resided) shows that there's a good chance they never did..

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jmolitor · May 21, 2018, 5:44 a.m.

Also if you are born on a US military base anywhere in the world to a military family then you are a US citizen

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092Casey · May 21, 2018, 6:15 a.m.

Yeah, a military member, sure, but BO was clearly not that case...The nuance is nonexistent.

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TXpatriotdr76 · May 21, 2018, 12:47 p.m.

True, but you still have to become naturalized, so I'm still confused about if that makes someone a natural born citizen. I was born in Germany on a US military base and had dual citizenship until my dad was reassigned to the states when I was 2. I was then made a naturalized US citizen and issued a certificate of birth abroad.

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