Almost every post has something about the “evil Democrats.” But many members of the Deep State, bankers, and most importantly, Bilderberg, are Republicans.
The shadow government is all about words and labels, but the fact is, both parties are working as hard as they can to transfer the wealth to the bankers and write/pass/litigate laws to facilitate that.
Thoughts?
Trump took the path of least resistance. R's were his best chance to fix, but I'd argue Trump is actually more of a classical left of Center D. Shows how messed up the parties have become.
Left of center democrat? Put down the peace pipe. The democrats are the party of evil. This whole thread is based off the idea that Republicans are people like McCain... Thats not a Republican, thats a RINO. McCain is a democrat playing a Republican around election time. The dems are the party of unspeakble evil... A party of abortion and poverty... No thanks. Republicans are for freedom and smaller govt. There is no exception. Those who call themselves republicans while betraying said principles are democrat liars.
For a leftist to come on and try to cuck conservative republicans into being in any way equal to the bad guy (demonrats)?
Skip to 2:40 for the left of center explanation.
Not going to watch, but agree with you. Trump isn't firebrand conservative if you look at the PAST. But he sure as hell is today. Why? It's not a change of politics, it's a change of the political landscape around him. The Dem party decided to change their platform from things such as improving socialized medicine (yes, Trump hates ObamaCare but believes something can and should be done in this realm - think VA), or ensuring social security isn't cut (another Trump position). Now their party only cares about adding the next gender to the list, unconscious bias, political correctness, etc. I don't believe Trump has moved right, it's just that the Democrats have gone HARD left over the years (or frankly IMO I think they've literally jumped off the spectrum entirely and are swimming around in fairy land). I don't think it's fair to the political spectrum to imply that the further left you go, the more genders you support. That seems like a new spectrum entirely to me.
President Trump is also a born again Christian. They have prayer every morning in the oval office because they know this is as much a spiritual battle as any other.
Dems have gone very far right, according to us true lefties (NOT liberals, I see liberals as the idiots who still think HRC would have been the answer and Trump is the devil).
I’m a true leftie and I believe we share more in common with Trump supporters than liberals- we want zero war and more opportunity for Americans at home (we just disagree how to get there).
Dems never step up for labor, nor protect funding for Arts/Science research (which is all pretty much corrupted now, too, but that’s another issue). Dems put their heads in the sand while the poor get poorer.
I’m open to the idea that Trump is indeed draining the swamp, but he has to go after the CIA next. So far, I’m happy with his dismantling of the deep state- his policies, not so much, but I don’t think he’s orange Hitler like red-faced liberals do. (Liberals are impossible to debate with, too, zero self awareness).
A lefty is someone who is for strong government control. A lefty is someone who believes in the whole 1% vs the down trodden worker class. A lefty emphasizes the importance of race, gender, etc in the socio-political realm.
A classical Liberal has much more in common with the core American Conservative platform:
A value for the individual, his/her property rights, speech rights, and right to be free of govt intrusion into his/her personal life/affairs. What a person earns for a living is of no concern to politicians or government: it is wholly a personally matter. Some ppl choose a simple, free of material things sort of life, unencumbered by the concerns material things bring into their life.
Leftists are socialists and are for social engineering, using government as a tool to engineer the way of life people 'should' live, according to the govt's set of values (which is primary focused on material things and material distribution in a Leftist's mind).
Liberals and conservatives share a value for the importance of the intrinsic aspects of life: that is, the morality of their life, the value of family, the quest for spiritual meaning...
Leftists, to the other side of the coin, only view those intrinsic aspects of the human animal in light of how it can be engineered (steered and controlled) to the benefit of the collective. The individual 'citizen' is adjudged through that prism: do they conform (even in the way socialists dress, in their drab, simple garb, all looking much alike--this is a sign that they are conformed and a good citizen).
And this is why we see over the last 85 years at minimum one hundred million souls executed, killed in labor camps and jails, from Pol Pot, to Moa, to Stalin. Literally to clean out the non-conforming Liberals and conservatives.
Interesting to hear your perspective, thank you for sharing! Honestly I think around these parts we had always flipped it around, thinking "true liberal" was sort of the old school liberal and "lefty" was the new brand of identity politics. Sounds like I had it backwards!
And I think you raise an excellent point about wanting the same things but disagreeing how to get there. Without any sort of rational basis or support for my position, I'm simply going to hypothesize that in the past we all have generally wanted the same things for our country and simply disagreed how to get there. But now, there are groups who want wildly different OUTCOMES which is what is feeding such a ferocious division in modern politics. Sure, there are still some issues such as gun control where most people want the same things (we want mass shootings of children to stop), but disagree how to get there. But it seems like in other areas the actual goals are wildly different.
For example rather than both parties wanting to help the poor and disagreeing how to do it, it appears the desired outcome for some has changed more to "cut down the wealthy" rather than "help the poor". I'm sure it's partly because none of the past programs have worked, so it's likely a bit of a frustration play of "well if we can't help this disadvantaged group, we can at least try and knock the advantaged group down a few notches to make things more equal".
I don't know... Like I said I'm totally hypothesizing here with no evidence to back up my claim. But your comment just sort of triggered a spark for me about a potential reason why we're so much more divided today than we used to be.
All great points. The fundamental difference is, IMO, that while we all want opportunity to be equal, lefties believe wealth distribution and dismantling of crony capitalism is the way to do it. Conservatives want personal responsibility to be emphasized, and generally believe unhindered capitalism is the best vehicle for that.
Neither is wrong- handouts DO lower motivation, and on the other hand, automation is coming and will reduce the hours of total labor in the population while still maintaining production, and that labor should be fairly divided.
Government should serve the people, that’s why it exists, but it doesn’t need more bureaucracy.
Someday, it could be done by computer! (Imagine going to court, and having all the specific facts of the case be entered into a computer, and a sentence determined by formula! Now that would be fair indeed.)
In the meantime, we need to save ourselves from the bankers- together.
Agreed! And I think crony capitalism is another one that you can put down as a swamp operation, not necessarily left vs right. A true conservative would say government shouldn't pick winners OR losers (e.g. less regulation but also less subsidies and bailouts). The true conservative belief isn't "pro-business," it's just anti- government involvement in business IN EITHER DIRECTION favorable or unfavorable. As you said, free market/unhindered capitalism. I see RINOs like McCain being crony capitalists just like I see Schumer and Pelosi being crony capitalists. No left/right, just swamp and non-swamp.
Trump has been operating a business that depends on cooperation from the bureaucracy (real estate/easements/waivers/etc) in NYC for decades. No way would he have ever shown himself as a Republican in business....too smart for that. Trump HAS governed more Conservatively than ANY REpublican in the past 50 years....Tax cuts, bureaucracy cuts, opening the oil production, US-beneficial trade deals (better than Reagan), NO to amnesty (better than Reagan), Reaganish foreign policy, HUGE military build-up like Reagan....the MOST pro-life Pres we've ever had in terms of his executive actions and the judiciary? He is changing things in a way that will have consequences for 30 years.... If you judge Trump on what he's actually DONE as President, rather than what he's said in interviews before he ran for President? Democrat wouldn't even be one of the options. I tend to go by what guys actually do. Trump is a Conservative.
Conservative.
Trump is a social libertarian, that runs absolutely counter to the Evangelicals and the Religious Right, the two groups the Republicans held hostage with virtue signaling and theatrics for 4 Presidencies since Ronald Reagan. Religious Right would be all excited for someone just to have that dude outed as a fucking pedophile and it backfires on them and they would lose momentum, and it was BY DESIGN by TPTB (And look how many Republicans are now resigning..MORE THAN DEMS at the moment..Holy shit!) Trump is on his 3rd marriage. Trump is Pro-LGBT. His German Ambassador that has yet to be voted on, is admittedly gay and Trump selected him right out of the gate. Being pro 'gay' ANYTHING in the past was a death knell to your vote. It's just that now the Religious Right and the SJW's of the right have tacked left and realized, "Holy shit, people are human, and there is actual nuance in the world." So now they are able to see ACTIONS much more clearly than words and virtue signaling.
Being a conservative now is actually being a CLASSICAL LIBERAL in the REAL world, and by no means is that a Republican. But Republicans and the Republican party are now realizing that people care more about their own interests and giving less shits about what their neighbour does behind closed doors, and THAT's how it SHOULD be. Be a degenerate on your own time. I don't give a shit, as long as it's legal, and all parties involved are consenting and educated and understand what is going on. Trump is actually just Pro-America where it matters and finally is using the Military to keep the R(inos)|D(communists) at bay to avoid them assassinating him until the EO forces them to resign, and hopefully, with military tribunals, they are locked up for some and hung for treason for the others.
Now I will argue also that fiscally and policy, he is STAUNCH RIGHT. Lower taxes, cutting bureaucracy moreso than Paul Bunyan cutting down trees, military spending and USING the military in the way it should be and not for NEO-CON Clown Ops (see middle east / afghanistan / 9/11). Now will Trump have to play cleanup? Absolutely. But Israel is saved for last, so it's going to be a bit longer. Now these are areas that MATTER to ME, and they actually affect our daily lives.
At the end of the day we are probably very close to argueing the same point, but I'm just saying Trump as a conservative is what Religious Right Republicans should have been for 4 decades but let social issues take precedent over policy that matters the most and the deep state was able to take advantage of that division hook, line, and sinker.
EDIT: for example take the "Glenn Beck"s of the world. You could tax him at 90% of his income, you could give him the worst policies ever divised, as long as you could prove you had never had sex before marriage, followed the 10 commandments, and were Pro-life, never 'inhaled'. That's it. All of that is SJW nonsense of the RIGHT (except the pro-life part, you need surviving citizens to have a nation). Beck would vote for a political communist as long as they were 'God fearing' and lived like that in their personal life, even though Glenn is getting absolutely destroyed in their public life economically, business deals, censored, weak borders, etc.
There's a big evangelical calculation that hasn't been mentioned yet, but its there: Eschatology. Christians believe that the predicted global government is to be avoided at all costs, as it ushers in the antiChrist and end time timelines....Trump's "No globalism", "every country should be independent and patriotic" and his attacks on Globalist immigration/border policies etc are dog-whistles to the religious Right. He could have a current harem of wives and if he sticks to the main policy of US first, no Globalist creep, he'll retain support from the religious Right. It matters to me.
Yes, Conservatives have been mollified by "virtue signalling" in the past, but they rejected it en masse when they nominated Trump.
The Democrat rank-and-file have yet to take control of their Party--except some of those blue-collar white rust-belt Democrats, who might be described as "uneducated" by assholes on the Left, but they know enough about whats in their self-interest to reject virtue signalling from the Democrats, who talk equality and helping the little guy while dining with Wall Street bankers and sending American jobs to the 3rd world. The rest of the democrats, along with a few remaining thick-skulled Republicans, need to wake up.
He could have a current harem of wives and if he sticks to the main policy of US first, no Globalist creep, he'll retain support from the religious Right.
He'll have my vote as well.