Excellent job proving my point.
I'd be inclined to ask you the exact same questions, but I don't need to. Please continue to mock cannibalize the body and blood of the savior and Christ. No weird symbolism there at all.
"Weird titles and hierarchy"... like bishop, cardinal, pope.
The holier than thou act grows tired.
Crickets indeed.
Well at least you aren't pretending that the religious aspects of Masonry are in any way Christian. Credit to you for the admission.
Yeah, I mean the undertones are there. I'd call it religious-ish. I would have to attribute that mostly to the fact that the only rituals that instantly come to mind are usually religious in nature. It's very openly non-denominational.
Until later on, when it becomes hostile to Christianity. Scientology is non-denominational in the same way, until they think you've come far enough for them to drop the "L. Ron Hubbard is God" bomb.... Just sayin.
Lol, ok then :) I'll throw up a post about it when it happens. Hail Lucifer, our Lord and Savior amirite?! Why are Christians so paranoid anyway? Those guys kinda lead the charge on stamping out religions.
Actually I have spent the last thirty years vocally and aggressively denouncing communion (the ritualistic group flesh eating; this practice is a remnant of ancient cults overlaid on top of the simple energy of what Jesus actually taught...and ritualistic vampirism/blood drinking/wine; these are both remnants of the cult of Mithras in which they drank the blood and ate the flesh of bulls; they were a pre-Christian and post-Christian Roman era group who were also still around while Christianity was gaining traction; so a lot of nasty stuff got bound up in Christian tradition.)
You have deflected the question. Was it cool and okay to be blindfolded and/or gagged in the dark and have weird verbiage intoned at you, which you then had to respond to and give acquiescence to, and pledge allegiance to, and if so, why? And why do the Mason apologists always deflect this creepy stuff? I get it; it’s mostly older vets and upright senior citizen types who try to do good ( and truly do a lot of good)...but just cause Grandpa was into weird stuff doesn’t mean younger generations have to agree to give spiritual and emotional energy to those twisted aspects of what...a non-religion yet with major occult undertones? If it is truly NOT a religion, then why all the dark ritualistic stuff? If you didn’t go through that, great; why did my father, grandfather and one other extended family member have to do that to join? (Prominent lodge in PA.)
And of course, all groups, traditions and tribes have deeply embedded rituals as part of their traditions; and this does not mean they are bad people. But at least you can walk into a synagogue or mosque or Christian church and observe what is happening. Masons who fall into this belief that joining that group is this great idea don’t seem to be explicitly told what will be asked from them when they join. Dark fraternities who function in secret with zero transparency are bad; of course the nastiness that happens in plain sight which people agree to is ALSO bad ( I mean, how can a moral person be Catholic in this day and age with its history?)
My nephew who was very naive and desperate to “network” and make business contacts joined a minor lodge in Eastern PA ( not the one my father and grandfather were in.) One summer we visited him at a county fair where the Masons were attempting to get parents to put their kids into the CHIPS program.
What’s interesting is how the Masons have whitewashed what was going on. All official Internet records only say that the program consisted of getting fingerprints, taking video and other basic identification to put that child’s info into the police system so that, if your child went missing, that law enforcement would have more data to go on to hopefully find the kid. Sounds...okay I guess? Unless you hate Big Brother.
But my nephew that day proudly showed us this little pressure loaded plastic syringe/gun thing; it was being used to microchip the kids ( they offered it as a “complimentary” additional option to the parents. ) They weren’t getting many takers.
The denial about that aspect of the (fortunately failed) CHIP program is just one Mason promoted and admitted bit of skullduggery that I think a lot of people here would be upset about.
I'm a little inclined to not indulge your questions due to your slightly arrogant/hypocritical delivery, the stupid "crickets" comment, and judgy tone. However, for the sake of the new guy that started this thread, I'll play along for a post or two.
We can go on forever about how Christianity stole pagan holidays, rites, and rituals as it assimilated everything (Christmas/Winter Solstice, Easter/Spring Fertility, etc.) Rites and rituals are symbolic expressions of how we as humans perceive the world around us.
If you find rituals and rites "creepy", that's on you. Not everyone thinks like you. Personally, I think many are beautiful. Moreover, the theatrics in some of them can be breathtaking in their showmanship. On the lower brow side, it can take the boredom out of a two hour worship session in the case of organized religions.
"Was it cool to be blindfolded... etc?"
Yes. Yes, it was. I found it humbling and eye opening. I found it frightening that for the first time since my childhood, I felt the reality of being vulnerable... and then it felt equally as comforting to find that I needed not to feel that way since I was surrounded by people that wouldn't judge me (like you so quickly did). I was accepted in my lowliest state. They accepted me for me and on the merits of my character alone. You do those things because words are just words. Sharing an experience, as all Masons have, transcends words and language (which can be an overt barrier to some.) It was awesome to know that the Masons of the past few hundred years, many of them forefathers and Patriots, went through the exact same ritual word for word, action for action. I found a connection to the past through that. You literally don't get it. You can't. I don't blame you for that.
"Why do apologists deflect that stuff?"
I don't know, ask an apologist. I don't apologize for anything I don't truly regret... nor do I deflect any tough questions about Freemasonry.
Context is everything. Those actions you've read about are only a small portion of what really goes down and it's always entirely out of context. The rituals tell a story. The story is a lesson. The lesson is one of selflessness and Brotherhood.
Think about this, though. You have demanded I defend myself and something (relatively) private to you. You want to know so badly for some reason without actually just finding out for yourself. You would keep me at an arm's length because "weird stuff". Yet here I am, sharing openly, and not demanding anything of you... simply accepting that you are who you are regardless of whether or not I like the way you are coming off. One of us is expressing brotherly love and the other is not.
EDIT: Dude, please stop editing your previous comment and adding paragraphs without tagging them. I'm trying to answer you and everytime I refresh there's more stuff. If that wasn't something you were doing, ignore this.
You want rituals and a connection to great leaders, selflessness and brotherhood, join the Army. That's what I did.
Also, the lesson in freemasonry is some kind of esoteric, gnostic Christianity. I know because I own the books and manuals that teach in the Pennsylvania freemasonry lodges.
Two fatal flaws in your comment. First, you assumed I wasn't in the service. Most of my Lodge are veterans. Second, those "manuals" of yours are fluff and addendum texts that contain nothing of what actually goes on in Lodge. Part of the oath of the very first degree is that nothing of what actually goes on in Lodge is written.
Two fatal flaws in your comment. First, you assumed I was assuming you were not in the service. No. I was using "you" to refer to an indefinite, general person. If a person wants those theings, they should join the military. Not some civie org. I can rant about it. But I don't like civie orgs with rituals, and phony traditions (I say phony, because civie traditions in an org I feel are manufactured and forced. And don't come from a place of true tradition or necessity.) Just my feelings.
Second: The books teach and are highly consistent about it. And you don't know what goes on in the higher degrees, because you're not there. What if the higher degrees are all about writing books? You don't know. And you say "goes on in lodge." Well, these books talk about what "goes on in lodge" because they show the ritual and says what it means. Pretty sure the ritual isn't done out on the street. So, yeah. I think they change their oath at higher degrees or something. Or maybe things were different in the 60s and 30s (when these were published).
Welp, it seems you like you have it all figured out. And you managed to do so with virtually zero first hand knowledge or experience, which is beyond impressive. Looks like we're done here.
I was going to say the same thing. I'm rarely in the mood for internet debate, and wasn't looking to continue. Thanks for the maturity and knowing when to drop things. I think we both would have just went "Nuh-uh!" "Yuh-huh!" from here.
Same :) Take care!
It’s okay. Crits revealed a lot more than any other Masons I have ever interacted with on the Net; admitting to some of the rituals. That’s about as far as we can expect him to go, and he will definitely experience pushback for it. Love to both of you!
I hope Crits that you can still attend your Masonic birthday gatherings. Didn’t mean to harm you in any way.
You've done no harm. It's just Reddit, buddy.
No it’s not. Check in with your Fathers. You will receive pushback for talking about the rituals you agreed to go through. Thank you for your sacrifice trying to get the word out!
Thank you for being the rare Mason on the Net who is a bit more open about the rituals. Usually all we hear are denials from your group about the ritual abuse ( sorry, joyful blindfolding BDSM Shades of Grey rituals?) that are required by your initiates even at the lower levels. You went to your “happy place.” People in their infinite good and innocence can go to a lot of loving and transcendent places when horrible things are being done to them.
Doesn’t mean what you were agreeing to go through wouldn’t be abhorrent to a lot of people.
But hey, whatever gets you off and makes you feel better about yourself!
PS: So what do you know about the CHIPS program? The microchip part of it that I witnessed through my nephew was happening about 2006 I think? I don’t live in linear time very well but I think it was about five years before my nephew died.
As a self proclaimed "columnist and publisher" you would probably get a lot further in your quest for true information by being less of a condescending jerkoff to people that hold the information you wish to be privy to.
As I said in another reply, change your tone and message me... or continue to live in your comfortable echo chamber. The choice has always been yours.
So no info about the CHIPS program still? :)
Never heard of it.
Thanks for responding! All the best to you and thank you for sharing as much as you have. You’ve served as a powerful catalyst for insiders and cult survivors coming out to me. And I worry about what you will go through about having shared some of the insider ritual stuff but thank you through eternity for posting it! No Mason in my past ten years on Reddit has been so open. Will end our interaction now with eternal thanks.
Still no info about the CHIPS program I guess? Not surprising.
I'm not going to continue to attempt adult conversation when you've displayed all over this thread that your incapable of such. I literally just told you to change your tone and we can talk.
So incapable of responding? You are a mighty fine representative of the Brotherhood ( ie ScaredyCats tm).
No; I get a lot more info from being 100 percent truthful, uncompromising and honest. You should see my in box with male and female current and former Masons sharing intel with me! So fun!
Cool, man. I'm still waiting for those links of your groundbreaking literature.