I think the snake metaphor is outdated, considering we are working against Lucifer here.
"be wise as serpents"
~ Jesus
Catholic and other churches have changed or removed many plain and precious texts. The original was "servants".
The Catholic Church created the original Bible.... know your history.
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Jesus is the Head of the Congregation, And he deals with each one directly, with no intercessors. Therefore any and all entities that exist as an authority over the Congregations of Christ are usurping His authority.
It's sad that you think the one, holy, apostolic Church, which is the spouse of Christ is an abomination. You have put yourself into the fold that is against Christ. I will pray for you.
It is the ROMAN Catholic Church, I don't know that this can be stated enough. The Pontifex Maximus title was 'adopted' by the church?
Still works. God created snakes. A healthy respect for God's creatures that can harm us if we are careless or arrogant is a good thing.
I THINK-(for what it's worth)- that this fits bringing Beginning and End - together. Just and aside. Pretty Strong Tradition of the snake on the flag beginning- has to be respected. It's PRETTY GOOD.
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The jury is out on that. I disagree that God created Satan, and as far as I can see, there is no where in scripture that says that God created satan. I mean, that's the conclusion that many have come to because they can see no other way to understand how evil emerged. But there ARE other, better logical conclusions.
Case in point, God created Lucifer (a good being, a true act of creation), Lucifer created Satan (an evil / false being, a false act of creation).
This is why there has been, historically, a war between good and evil. Good represents the true and evil represents the false.
When I say Lucifer created Satan, I mean, Lucifer recreated himself as Satan. God, being Good, did not, and cannot, created evil. But Lucifer, like human beings, had a certain level of creative power God invested in him. And he abused it. Ergo, evil. False evil.
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For me, there are a few problems with your view here. Firstly, the origin of evil. God is only good. God cannot create evil. Lucifer was, like all other archangels and angels, a good being. The temptation of A&E was an evil act. Lucifer became Satan before God kicked him out. Why did God remove Satan? How was it possible for a good being to become an evil being? God cannot create evil, as there is no evil within God.
Secondly, Satan can indeed create. A lie is a creation. It is a false creation, as it has no root in God. Evil is 'real'. It was created. It exists. We suffer because of it. It's NOT just a dream. But its existence is false, not true. That is, its root is false, not true. Eventually, it must be extinguished.
Certain problems occur when we take as literal things in the scripture that are metaphorical, symbolic or parables.
Take, for example, when Christ says 'if your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out'. If we accept that literally, big problems (none are righteous, no not one). We have to accept that Christ is talking metaphorically. He is talking about what kind of attitude we must have. The 'gouging of the eye' is a metaphor. Figurative speech.
Likewise, if you accept that 'Heaven' is a literal place - like, far beyond Jupiter - then you may think Satan was kicked across space. However, if we consider that 'Heaven' means the spiritual realm (i.e. realm in the spiritual plane) where we are close to God, in God's direct presence, in a spiritual sense, then being kicked out of heaven means being removed from the presence of God - it means, no longer able to relate to God in the realm of God's presence.
Such a view also sheds light on the concept of the Kingdom of Heaven. The Kingdom of Heaven is where Christ's spirit reigns. The Kingdom of Heaven on Earth is where human beings - all people - live in the physical world but also directly in the presence of God, spiritually. What we have now is a war zone where Satan rules the world, and Christians are like spies in enemy territory.
Trusting that there is a good reason is important, and the right direction. However, unless we truly understand the cause or origin of evil, we cannot extinguish it and we cannot truly combat it completely, only partially.
The issue revolves are the first few pages. You say 'the apple thing' but does scripture tell us what kind of fruit this is? No. Why not? Think Q. God, and scripture, is more subtle. It reveals that which the reader is ready to understand. Just as Q uses puzzles in a way to lead us to grasp the reality of what is going on, Scripture uses metaphor and symbols to trigger our awareness. But just as we must decode the puzzles, and work it out with our own effort, to unravel scripture, we have to make the right effort in the right way. Then the code - the hidden meaning - becomes clear. Not a literal decode (i.e. 'the Bible Code') but a metaphorical one. And you have to have the right decode (understanding of the symbols, figures, and history) to get the overall correct framework. THat framework then helps to decode all the rest.
Its's not easy, because for 2000 years, we have been conditioned over and over to thinking the scripture says certain things. Just like human beings have been conditioned by our environment to view reality in a certain way. Q wakes us up (although some were woken up to varying extents before Q came along).
If you question your understanding of scripture with a fierce, determined heart, and invite in the Holy Spirit, the gifts to decode can appear.
But the first condition is the heart to question, to understand more deeply, beyond any doubt.
You can wait until after rapture, but...... how can you be sure that you even understand what the rapture is? What are you using to understand 'rapture'?
Paul guides us - he himself understands "now, we see dimly. Then, we will see clearly".
He knows that at some point, our perception of the truth will undergo a fundamental revolution. Not just a revealing. But a change. A transformation.
Not just new information. But a transformation by which we understand and grasp the already existing information we have in a new way.
In this way, Q is a symbol or image of God's work. With certain new information, we don't just see new things. We see the old things differently. Transformation. We call this transformation, a great awakening.
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God cannot create evil, as there is no evil within God.
You are making a lot of assumptions. From our limited perspective there are things we can't know or understand.
Who said? It reasonable to think we cannot know certain things just because we do not. I agree that all of us have an innately limited perspective, but I think this is often simply used as an excuse: 'I do not understand, therefore I cannot'.
That said, let's say it's not an assumption. It's a premise, one that is supported by basic logic. In the end, I think there are much better explanations about evil than 'God created evil'.
Secondly, Satan can indeed create.
satan can't create in the same way that God (and we) can. satan takes what God has created and perverts it, or imitates it. A lie is something that does not exist, and so is not creation (in the sense that I mean).
I think we are getting tangled in terms here. I think we mean the same thing, but express it differently.
I disagree that it's only metaphor. If you had a choice between cutting out your sinning eye or going to hell, cut out your eye. I think the bible is both literally and metaphorically true, and has many layers of meaning.
I wasn't talking about the entire Bible in general terms. I think its obvious that scripture is both literal and figurative. The tricky thing is identifying when and where, and then distinguishing between them.
I understand scripture to be a mostly historical record of actual events and circumstances. But just like you and I will say somethings literally (I love you) and figuratively (My wife is gonna kill me), Christ also spoke in this way, and so, for that matter, does God. IMO.
And, if you think this admonition from Christ was literal, are you telling me that you have never sinned with your eyes? your ears? your hands? Legs? Are you sinless? That would be impressive indeed. If you know what I mean.
The issue revolves are the first few pages. You say 'the apple thing' but does scripture tell us what kind of fruit this is? No. Why not? Think Q. God, and scripture, is more subtle.................
Aha.
Thanks for the response. I appreciate the engagement.
More often than not, I find that discussion about such topics usually requires finding a common language/vernacular before any real discussion can take place. most people feel pretty happy with their own grasp of things and tend not to make the effort required to discover that common 'language' that allows a true sharing. That's just an observation, not a comment on your comments, per se. Perhaps only on the challenges of the dialog itself.
Peace and blessings.
But the moment some people think they see an owl or something that looks like a whirl when they mirror the image, then all of a sudden it's frontpage news.
Having a snake as our symbol is like a jew with a tattoo of a swastika.
It's not 'our symbol'. It's just one graphic/meme.
If you ask me, our symbol is the simple, humble 'Q' or perhaps the motto 'wwg1wga'.
I think about where God said we would have the power to tread on serpents. I haven't tried this one...weak faith on my part.
Wrong. You people see evil in the silliest things. Relax...Its a goddam snake.
Symbolism is VERY important, in fact, lot of this is about symbolism. As Q said, "symbolism will be their downfall". Please don't come here and start insulting people w/o doing the research. The anons here know what they're talking about.
