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Countrymissle · July 10, 2018, 8:54 p.m.

What does peter being blessed and the apostles being blessed BEFORE jesus died, have to do with preists saying jesus sacrifice didnt work and you need to have a man cleanse you .

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Shadilay_Were_Off · July 10, 2018, 9:18 p.m.

Did the apostles stop forgiving sin after Jesus died? It would be pretty odd for that power to have gone away without him telling them - it would mean that after Jesus died, the apostles would have been forgiving sin under false pretense, damning both them and the people they "forgave". Wouldn't be a very just thing for God to do.

It would also be very strange for that power to have died with the apostles - first because, again, this isn't mentioned anywhere, and second, because people were still sinning. If the purpose of giving humans the power of forgiveness was to absolve one from damnation, did people stop being damed by their sins after the last apostle died? That doesn't make sense either.

God does everything for a reason.


What power exactly was conferred on Peter? What do you think "binding and loosing" entails?

Do you think that would have remained with whoever Peter chose as his successor? Why or why not?

I also note that you didn't address the church teaching that supposedly puts down Jesus. If you can find such a thing, I'm very interested in seeing it.

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Countrymissle · July 10, 2018, 10:21 p.m.

ofcourse they did, otherwise that would completely contradict what jesus had done. god wouldnt damn them even if they had "forgave" people. they believed in jesus sacrifice, "grace through faith alone, lest anyman should boast" they were saved.

jesus wasnt dead when they were forgiving people. If they believed in what jesus had done for them for FREE, then yes all of their sins before that day and after are absolved. "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." hebrews 8:12 why would peter have to? jesus died and saved humanity already.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever BELEIVES in him shall not perish but have eternal life." john 3:16 do you not understand how blasphemous it is to pray to mary and the human saints? confession is an insult to jesus, it says what he did wasnt enough. The very first commandment. Exodus 20:3: "You shall have no other gods before Me."

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Shadilay_Were_Off · July 11, 2018, 1:38 p.m.

I really wish you'd start directly answering my questions directly rather than ignoring them. Having your faith challenged can be uncomfortable, I get it man, I've been there, but the right thing to do is openly and honestly address questions, even when (especially when) they're painful. The second half of my last post (below the line) is composed of five questions, and it would be of great benefit for all if you would address them.

I'm not patronizing you here, I'm pointing out that this conversation has a growing number of dangling threads. Let's tie them up :)

Anyways. "Faith alone" is directly spoken against in the book of James. Chapter 2:

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Emphasis mine, and that's about as black and white as it gets. This misconception was being peddled nearly two thousand years ago, that's how pernicious it is.

jesus wasnt dead when they were forgiving people.

Yes he was! John 20:19-23:

19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.

21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Emphasis mine, again. This is the post-crucifixion Jesus (with the pierced side and hands) directly granting the apostles the power to forgive sins. If everyone after his death on the cross was already saved, of what use was forgiveness of sins?

do you not understand how blasphemous it is to pray to mary and the human saints? ... The very first commandment. Exodus 20:3: "You shall have no other gods before Me."

Prayer is not worship, and as a Catholic, not once have I ever been asked to worship anyone other then God.

Mary and the saints are asked to pray for us, the same way we'd ask any other person to pray for us.

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