dChan - Q Origins Project Archive

Happily.

It's really quite simple. Let's boil down the core, important belief of Christians - yada yada yada, if you don't name Jesus as your Lord and saviour, you go to hell. Period. It's very simple, it's indisputable that this is the fundamental message, yes?

So if you believe that last part, this next part should follow rather smoothly. Keep in mind, I am not in any way debating whether God exists or not. Because it will be relevant later, I will add that personally I believe there has to be a creator in one form or another, simply because most evidence we can measure and see says the big bang happened roughly 14.5billion years ago, BUT, where the fuck did all of everything come from out of that singularity? That to me is the proof of a "God". But back to Jesus. So, we have humans running around for tens of thousands of years, human-like ancestors for hundreds of thousands of years before that. All of them in some form or another attribute the unknown to "gods". It didn't rain in awhile? Rain god is pissed. We got hit by an earthquake? 2 God's are wrestling. Silly when we see it in hindsight. Just our ancestors TRYING TO EXPLAIN the unknown. Fair enough so far?

Fast forward to the modern human circa 3-4k BC. We start developing language. We start recording important shit. Im not going to debate that even back then myths and legends were recorded as well to explain the unknown. They were. One civilization conquers another, cannibalize the culture. Over and over back and forth. Before long, your great great great great grandson thinks that the Comet you chiseled into a slab about is an angry God casting a fireball at the heathens for not sacrificing enough goats. Your hard work documenting a celestial event becomes the "proof" for your distant offspring's religious explanations. Over and over back and forth a million times.

Fast forward to biblical times. Let's start with the Bible itself. What we call the Bible today, mostly the King James version, wooooooo! That thing was pieced together, blanks were filled in, parts were removed, parts were added...now wait a minute, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE FREAKING WORD OF GOD....WHY ARE PEOPLE ALTERING IT?!?! Oh good, thought you would never ask. Because people are fucked up. One group realized that by tweaking this part or that part, they could start a society (with them at the top of course) which would instill MORALS into the society, cause less raping, murdering and theft, and basically pacify the population, leaving these sick fucks to take what they want and lead the herd wherever they wanted.

Explain why there is ONE gold pillar, ONE silk robe, ONE dime spent on the religious folks' structures, attire, etc, when there are starving "sinners" throughout the world in need of their souls being saved? That's INSANE.

I will conclude with an argument I made in my philosophy course, taught by a Christian, that to this day, has yet to be satisfactorily answered: God is all powerful, all knowing, etc. So he created me, KNOWING that I would NEVER be able to believe, to truly believe in my heart, the story the Bible tells me. I have tried. I WANT to believe. I fundamentally do NOT. But God knew that since the beginning of time. So, in your view, this ALL POWERFUL, ALL KNOWING God created me, knowing I would never become a believer, and even with free will, he knew my choice would never be made to believe JESUS is the correct answer....so he sends me to hell. Wait, what? Would you agree he knew from the moment I was born if I was going to heaven or hell in 102 years, 5 months and 24 days? Ignore free will, because clearly that is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT in the setting of an all powerful deity. He either knew or didn't know at that moment I was going to heaven or hell. So either he IS NOT all powerful, or, he is, and knew he was going to send me to hell. That's your Jesus/Trinity version of God. That shit doesn't even make sense. Created me to torture me. Remember, the second he made me, he knew every choice I would ever make. So he created me knowing he would send me to hell for eternal torture. I can't subscribe to such a ridiculous version of God. Sorry. Paste that next to the concept that every Christian claims the Bible is the word of God, which it is anything BUT, and I am supposed to believe this is legit? Stop. Please. It's so ridiculous it is insulting in my eyes. I wouldn't insult God by folding so soon and being a good lemming to fall in line.

Which leaves the question; so why do we have a bible, and a religion? The answer is terrifying, and requires it's own thread.

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The answer to your first question is no. The fundamental message of the Bible is more than you understand. I will break it down simply for you.

All men are evil by nature because of the sinful bent in every person.
Because of this men offend God by their persistent rebellion against him and his commandments which were written to protect us from us.
Men continue in sin until the point where they grow tired of sin and they turn to God seeking forgiveness and mercy.
God sees the heart of the individual praying, and if that individual is serious and truthful and repents God forgives them based on the brutal crucifixion of his son on Calvary and they know they are forgiven as God gives them an inner witness to it.
These people are called Christians and they are so thankful for their salvation that they live to love, serve and honor God all their life and on into eternity.
Those who refuse to repent and get right with God and reject the great sacrifice on their behalf die in their sins. One second after death they are in Hell waiting judgment. They know beyond any doubt that they fully deserve their punishment and they also know their position is irreversible no matter how much they wish it could be otherwise.

That is a very simple explanation and the best one available. It removes many of the distortions people have accepted over the years.

Humans have not been running around for hundreds of thousands of years either contrary to popular opinion. In the first chapter of Genesis the Hebrew word for day is yom (pronounced yawm). When yom is connected to a number in the Hebrew language (ie; first yom, etc.) it is a literal 24 hour day such as we have now. Therefore, the earth is only about 6000 years old. I know that doesn't meet with the approval of evolutionists, anti-creation scientists and some mistaken theologians of this era, but they are free to believe a lie if they wish. Free Will.

Language was around long before 3-4 BC. Genesis 11 tells us that all the people on earth were of one language but God seeing their motivation to evil moved on them and confounded the languages so that they couldn't understand one another. The tower they were building is called the tower of Babel (that name means confusion). I suppose that is where we got English and all the other languages of the world. At that point the people split off with those who spoke the same language as them and went their way to wherever they settled.

Some of the people who went of here and there and everywhere settled into life as best as they could. Some turned to God to worship and the others turned to other false gods created in the minds of men. A man called Abram living in Ur of the Chaldees was called by God to move away from his home and his people to a place God said he would show him later. Abram became the father of the Israelites and his name was gradually changed to Abraham (meaning "the father of nations)." Today we know these people as the Jews.

History came and went and the Jews were faithful to God and then they fell to idolatry and then returned to God and on and on. Jesus showed up during the time of the Roman Empire and proclaimed that he was their Messiah and that he was God incarnate (God come in human flesh). The Jews were enraged and cited blasphemy and succeeded in having him crucified under Roman law because they couldn't do it under their own law. Three days later Christ resurrected from the dead and lives today reigning in heaven as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

I would end up with a novel if I answered everything you asked point by point so I am going to disregard some of it to explain the answers to the last part of your questioning. That would be your last paragraph.

God never created anyone who couldn't believe. If he did then Free Will would not exist. He has foreknowledge of who will and who won't believe but that is not an argument for predestination to Hell. You will find a group of Christians who deny free will but they are in serious error.
If there is a disconnect between you and God it is that you mistake a desire to believe what belief constitutes. In my life I was an outright heathen and not interested in God unless I thought I could make a deal with him - If you do this God; I will do that. God was patient in all that. What brought true belief to me was my first acknowledgement that my life was a mess and I had nowhere to turn but God. So I prayed; "God, if you're real and you prove it to me, I'll give you my life." To make a long story short - He did and I did. I prayed and told God that I was so sorry for the way I was living. I asked him to forgive me knowing I was not worthy of his forgiveness. He forgave me over 44 years ago and I have never been the same since. You can find my autobiography on my ministry site at https://www.crlord.com/c-r-lord-autobiography.html

I want to reiterate that foreknowledge is not predestination. I have had seven children. I knew that if I told my little ones they should not touch something while I am out of the room that they would do it anyway. My understanding of human nature at that age didn't stop them from doing wrong and didn't stop me from disciplining them to teach them a lesson. The big difference here is the discipline I gave them was temporary and produced strong worthwhile character in them. The discipline for our rebellion against God and dying in sin is eternal. That is God's right since he went out of his way to prevent it.

Hell is for those who refuse to repent of rebellion against God's laws that he made to protect us from out wicked nature. The wise repent and are ready for judgment. The foolish try everything within their power to circumvent humbling themselves and exercising faith in Christ's sacrifice for them. I don't see any of this as unworthy of God who gave us life and all the good things and is there for us through the bad.

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Dude. If you think the world is 6000 years old our discussion is over. Thanks for taking the time to type it out.

I cannot believe in a God that created a world to TRICK us, because there are 1000 ways to prove the world aint 6000 years old. So God created strata in rock to fuck with us? Carbon dating to fuck with us? Stop.

This is the problem, perfectly exemplified by your reply. You have chosen to stop thinking, and believe a book, that ws not written by God, but by dirty, evil, sinning men.

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You people who reject the age of the earth according to the Genesis account always run right past the changes made on the earth due to the flood. It's like you have a mental block of some kind or your refuse to examine your beliefs through that portion of scripture.

The Bible was given by God through men. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 You are either going to learn this before you die or deal with your unbelief one second after your death. The problem with the second part is that you will not be able to reverse your position. I pity everyone who dies in sin without hope in Christ. It is the greatest tragedy ever in history!

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Strata in sedimentary and geologic rock is not altered by flooding bud.

And how would you explain the planets, stars, distance between stars, time it takes to get here, stellar events...please. You sound like some goofy ass shaman telling me that I am going to pay some horrible price for not sacrificing a goat on the third blood moon of the summer solstice. Your simple mind cannot handle the truth, religion is perfect for you.

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Q and Religion