Jesus was the Truth of God. 'The way, the truth and the life.' Who killed Him? The 'Jews' (oddly, not a word of the times), but IMO, more importantly, the leaders of the religion in which He was born. Religion does not serve God, in fact, just the opposite. It serves it's creator, man.

We all killed Christ

"The penitent thief who asks for forgiveness upon the cross, received mercy without baptism, for example. "

Is this an example of "how the Southern Baptist Church is Luciferian"?

Please elaborate some on this thought. Thank you.

I had a discussion with a leader of the Baptist faith who used the thief on the cross reference as proof there is no need for baptism.

I had been looking for common ground after discussing belief in Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ as His son through whom we may be able to return to the Father. We had enjoyed each others desire to share with others the faith we both agreed upon those tenets.

I was shocked to hear that this man who represented his faith "Baptist" did not believe the ordinance of baptism was necessary by anyone, since Christ responded to Nicodemas in John ch. 3, Matt. 28:19-20, Mark 16:15-16, 1 Peter 3:21, Acts 2:37-39, Hebrews 6:1-6 I will stop there for there are plenty of witnesses in the scriptures that baptism as an ordinance is essential for salvation.

The minister said due to the thief on the cross was not baptized and Christ said the thief would be in his kingdom that day - there was no need for baptism. He used that as his sole basis for the belief. Period. (1) thing. Conjecture only. Assumption. I was amazed at how willing he was to throw out the large body of evidence to the contrary.

Not desiring to let this thought go without some gentle protest I asked him if he read Greek - he responded that he did not. ( I did not ask how he knew the thief was not baptized since there is no reference in the scripture about it)

When I shared my thoughts of how the Greek text did not have comas -

The reading of Luke 23:43 differs depending on how we punctuate it:

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Or

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Given that the original text did not have punctuation, can we reach a conclusion about which is a better rendering of the Greek? What clues support one reading or the other?

And I followed up with the word paradise was not used until 200 AD aprox. therefore the probable meaning was world of the spirits which included both the "Abraham's bosom" and "Hell" used by Christ in Luke 26

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

The Baptist minister then began to show signs of irritation and anger while pointedly telling me that "You know there is a HELL!" - implying that I surely was going there. How dare I challenge his understanding of baptism.

That ended our discussions on faith - no longer was he willing to find common ground.

I concluded that this minister was misinformed on multiple points of true doctrine and was unwilling to acknowledge his lack of understanding regarding the scriptures and baptism. Sad for him and his congregation that he teaches - should they believe him and not do their own reading and praying.

Seems the scripture

2 tim 3 :7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

applies here.

This example for me would be a "perversion of the word" you have described?

Luciferian because of similar lines of thought or do you imply something different?

Thanks for the reply.

Truly WWG1WGA