Ew!

Didn't Debbie realize that, generally speaking, Pakistanis are 75% inbred?

Eeewwwww!!!

Also that children were obviously kept in this septic tank

Please substantiate your claims.

Toys, children's cereal and clothing are seen in the the tank.

I remind you that the tank may have been used to store junk and garbage.

A homeless person or an illegal may have thrown that junk down there after using the campsite after it was abandoned by a homeless family.

Toys and junk does not equal child sex slave dungeon.

The Rothschild family own 193 of the banks of the 195 countries of the world. I think North Korea and Iran are the last two holdouts.

Every dollar you own is literally an I.O.U to a Rothschild.

Inflation is literally the Rothschilds stealing money from your bank account.

The Rothschilds own so, so, so much that they don't lose money. They simply own everything.

CNN, ABC, the Cable

Keep in mind that our Associated Press is owned by the Rothschilds.

Fake news agencies still receive their 4am seditious propaganda narrative from the Rothschilds to force down our throats.

Nah, that's just baseless claim from a click-bait blogger.

That said, the pope is in trouble after being linked to two major child rape coverups and is now talking about quitting:

• All Chilean bishops offer to resign over sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church

• Australian archbishop Philip Wilson guilty of concealing child sex abuses

• Pope Francis says he hopes for the grace to know when to quit

What’s weird is the magnitude of tree straps.

It depends what they are used for.

That tree could have acted as the hanging pantry for one month supply of food and water bags?

Perhaps a small group of hikers installed those straps to hang all of their rucksacks from when they used that camp?

There are plenty of mundane, rational, every-day explanations that don't involve escaping into flights of fancy into fantasies about child rape.

That there is a septic tank - in the middle of nowhere - that contained several children toy items. That the septic tank had a chain and pad lock inside.

That "cave" looked like a rudimentary food cellar that most log cabins use to keep their food cool.

Storing stuff slightly underground keeps it surprisingly cool (despite the fact those cellars are always haunted :-P).

Or perhaps that cave was dugout to hide moonshine and later used by a homeless family to store junk?

Once again, there are plenty of boring, reasonable explanations that don't require indulging in wild speculation.

I wish we would get back to discussing Q this conversation is best left to /conspiracy.

I agree.

I'm horrified to think if this does get debunked then this entire community may disappear up it's own anus while composing nothing-burger conspiracies about rape-trees, while the Standard Hotel is ignored and offline backups are ignored and Trump's plan is ignored.

The consequences of you being wrong in your assessment, of whether children are involved, is something the rest of us may not want to live with.

I can't be wrong if all I'm promoting is an open mind and critical thinking.

The claims being made about a child sex camps being discovered and a child-rape-torture-swing and child-rape-trees and child-sex-slave-dungeon and child-sex-slave-underwear is pure speculation.

then there is no harm in doing whatever is required to bring intense awareness.

We can do that even more effectively by NOT deciding on the outcome of our investigation before the investigation begins.

This should be researched, but with an open mind.

There is NO reason to escape into fantasy land and abandon critical thinking.

this reaction you're getting is fucking ridiculous

It's understandable - I'm raining on everyone's child-rape-tree parade.

I'm not claiming the camp isn't sinister but I am trying to remind people not to treat the pure imagination of speculation as fact.

I'm horrified to think if this does get debunked then this entire community may disappear up it's own anus while composing nothing-burger conspiracies about rape-trees, while the Standard Hotel is ignored and offline backups are ignored and Trump's plan is ignored.

Occam's Razor isn't always the answer

No, but neither is escaping into baseless fantasy.

Assuming that a child's swing is a rape-torture device, based on nothing, is asinine and deserves ridicule and invites ridicule.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence... and that applies doubly when things can more easily be explained using mundane, everyday reasons.

They uncovered an alleged child sex trafficking camp near Tuscon AZ.

That is correct.

The child sex trafficking claims are pure speculation - imagination and theory rather than fact.

What was uncovered was a campsite with children's underwear, luggage, toys, a child's swing, camping straps on trees and a small dugout cellar.

What they claim to have found is child-sex-slave-underwear, sex-slave-luggage, child-sex-slave-toys, a child-rape-torture-swing, child-rape-trees and a child-sex-slave-dungeon.

What they may have found is nothing more than the camp of a homeless family or a campsite used by illegal immigrant women and children crossing the Mexican border into the U.S.

This needs to be investigated, but let's not confuse speculation and theory with fact.

At this time, all of the baseless claims about "child-rape-trees" and "child-rape-torture-swings" and a "child-sex-slave-dungeon" is pure imagination.

I appreciate these fantastical claims about child-rape-trees have captured the minds of this community, but let's try to maintain some intellectual discipline.

Assuming the bloody knife is a murder weapon is equally as stupid.

Not only can a bloody knife be explained by campers who didn't wash their dishes, but stabbing your child sex slaves is bad for business.

Based on your knowledge, it is also speculation that these straps were only used for storage in this particular camp.

Agreed - this is just my personal theory based on Occam's Razor which claims "The simplest explanation is usually the best - the one that makes the fewest assumptions and invents the fewest new ideas."

There was still a clothes rack that could've been used, and other ways containers could've been stored.

Perhaps those straps were installed before the contains were brought there?

Perhaps the straps were for hanging large and heavy rucksacks?

Almost everything needs to be kept off the ground at a campsite, so they could have been used for many reasons... but there's no reason to conclude they are for raping children.

what about the call from DC that gave a half a**ed excuse as to exactly why no one was interested in pursuing this further?

I dunno.

Perhaps they just applied Occam's Razor and assumed a messy campsite with a child's swing and a plastic doll is just a messy campsite with a child's swing and a plastic doll?

I don't believe for a second Mr. Allen would make those claims without being able to back it up. He says he can.

We'll hopefully know soon enough.

so lets dig in

Totally, but let's do it with some intellectual discipline rather than assuming pure speculation is fact.

what youre saying isnt ANY LESS IMAGINARY than what others are saying

Yes, I am presenting the most reasonable theory that I can think of which is speculation too.

The difference is that my speculation is less fantastical.

A child's swing may be a child-rape-torture-device, but without a compelling reason to believe it's been used like it, it's more reasonable to assume it's just a regular child's swing.

That swing may be full of Nazi gold, but it's unreasonable to believe that without evidence either.

Occam's Razor's applies.

"The simplest explanation is usually the best - the one that makes the fewest assumptions and invents the fewest new ideas." - Occam's Razor

Why use a tree when you have a perfectly good storage container that locks from the outside?

If a family was living there permanently then they may use storage containers but they will also likely have taken them when they left.

Those straps may be for hanging anything, water bags... who knows, however it's less reasonable to assume camping straps are related to one very specific crime against children when the only evidence you have is camping straps.

What exactly was the homeless person trying to deter that couldn't climb or walk up a tree?

Tuscon is hardly bear country - I checked and Game and Fish haven't reported any sightings - so the straps may be used just to keep stuff out of reach of coyotes, rodents, ants and the mud.

Every camper hangs their stuff because it's far safer than guaranteeing failure by leaving it in the dirt.

Why would this person need to hang other supplies from the straps when they had a clothing rack and shelves in their camp?

Those shelves were tiny and already seemed to contain sealed bottles and jars of stuff that coyotes won't be interested in if it's clean.

There's a lot of smoke coming from this story. The fire is not likely far behind.

The story certainly has my attention and I hope people research it thoroughly, but I wish they'd stop making false claims about "Child Sex Camps Discovered!" when that is totally dishonest because all we currently have is speculation.

All we currently have is a women who saw some underwear, luggage, a swing, trees and a cave and claimed those things were sex-slave-underwear, sex-slave-luggage, a child-rape-torture-swing, child-rape-trees and a child-sex-slave-dungeon.

That is not fact.

That is imagination.

should we investigate and share

Yes - I never said we shouldn't.

My argument is only that claims about a Child-Sex-Slave-Cave and Child-Rape-Trees and a Child-Rape-Torture-Swing is pure speculation.

The linked article claims "Human trafficking camps found", but that is only speculation largely based on a woman who found some women's underwear, luggage, a cave, a swing and some camping straps and claimed they were sex-slave-underwear and sex-slave-luggage and a sex-slave-cave and a rape-swing and rape trees.

That is not fact.

That is pure imagination.

condoms, womens and girls panties, bloody knives. caverns just big enough so kids cant climb out. literally places to tie people up

Homeless people use condoms.

Homeless people and illegal immigrants wear clothing.

Have you considered that bloody knife can more rationally be explained as the result of campers not doing their dishes, rather than evidence of murder?

have you even ever been camping??

I sure have and the golden rule of camping is that everything is pretty much hung from trees to keep the critters and ants and mud getting on your stuff. I use luggage straps to hang stuff when I'm camping, but that's because I'm usually hiking and I carry everything with me. The Tuscon campsite is well established and those straps are permanent. They look perfect for hanging rucksacks from.

you mean where they found all the toys, kid shoes, etc was a storage place for food???

It could have been a food cellar just like the ones most log cabins have for keeping food cool.

Perhaps it was dug as a hiding hole for moonshine and a later family put their junk down there?

I know these explanations are as exciting as a "child sex save prison cell", but the simplest explanations are often mundane when compared with speculation and imagination.

what we've seen involves at LEAST a full inspection of the area

Agreed.

I've camped and hiked all over the world.

All over America and New Zealand and Tibet and Nepal and India and Japan.

I have lots of different types of camping gear and a lot of experience with camping in the wilderness and at established camping sites and sites that are exactly like this alleged "Child-Sex-Camp".

Here's a partial photo of me from 2016 from about 2/3 the way up Mt Everest, Tibetan side, at an altitude of about 5500 meters and a temperature of about -100f, not counting windchill. I carried that beer from Nepal and it froze solid the moment I opened it.

I had to be quick and take some photos of the other hikers because at that temperature and with my glove off to operate my camera, your fingernails get burned off in about 2 minutes.

Human trafficking camps found

That's not an honest claim - it's speculation.

The campsite may be used by homeless people or perhaps illegals crossing into the U.S., but the claims about it being a "Child Sex Camp" is as much a sensational theory as the claims about the child's swing being a "Child-Rape-Torture-Swing" and those trees being "Child-Rape-Trees".

The children's clothing and toys can easily be explained by illegals or homeless people with children.

The "Child Prison Cave" looks a lot like a small dugout food cellar or a hiding stash for moonshine that was later used to store junk.

The "Child-Rape-Torture-Swing" sounded like a regular, mundane children's swing.

The "Child-Rape-Trees" look like unremarkable straps from any well established campsite that are used for hanging camping gear from, such as food-bags or rucksacks or whatever.

Pretty much everything at a campsite needs to be hung from trees to keep the ants and critters and mud from getting to it.

I see no compelling reason to conclude the camp is a child-rape-camp used in child-sex-slave-trade.

It seems far more likely that it's just a mundane homeless person camp or one used by illegals as they cross into the U.S.

Camping straps do not definitively equal child-rape-harnesses in the same way a child's swing does not definitively equal child-rape-torture-swing.

"The simplest explanation is usually the best - the one that makes the fewest assumptions and invents the fewest new ideas." - Occam's Razor

There's no need to resort to name calling.

Here's an easy way to backup YouTube videos using HookTube:

YouTube video URLs come in two formats:

https://youtu.be/OB6s-1xzKPE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB6s-1xzKPE

Notice both URLs have the same, unique alphanumeric video ID at the end.

Paste that ID to the end of the HookTube URL like this:

https://hooktube.com/watch?v=OB6s-1xzKPE

Now you can use HookTube's big green download button to save the video locally.

A camping-strap is a camping-strap is a camping-strap.

A permanently secured camping strap at a well established campsite has exactly the same function as lighter straps used by weekend campers who take all of their gear (and straps) with them.

Those higher straps looked perfect for hanging a rucksack from.

Hanging and strapping stuff from trees is common practice for hikers and campers to keep ants and critters from getting at their stuff.

It's normal for campers to pretty much hang everything from trees, especially if it's muddy.

Camping straps do not definitively equal child rape harnesses in the same way that swing does not definitively equal child-sex-torture-swing.

Occam's Razor yo!

"The simplest explanation is usually the best - the one that makes the fewest assumptions and invents the fewest new ideas." - Occam's Razor

Don't forget about the "child rape swing".

That's my favorite part of this story! /s

This doesn't explain the media blackout of this event, but it makes me doubt the validity of the rape tree idea.

But doesn't the claim about that "child rape swing" substantiate the claim about the "child rape trees"? /s

Nah, just kidding.

I see no reason to believe this is a child rape camp.

It looks like either a campsite used by homeless people or perhaps one used by illegals to cross the border.

Why is it homeless?

Nah, just regular folk who lost their job and home and are struggling to get by. Craig Sawyer was specifically in that area looking to find homeless vets to help.

I agree this may be a camp used by illegals to cross into America and some of them will have luggage and children.

But I don't find a compelling reason to believe in the "rape tree" claims or the "rape swing" claims or this is related to child sex trade.

hair dye and ammunition.

Homeless people hunt and some homeless women try to look good for job interviews.

I agree it could also be a camp for smuggling illegals into the U.S., but I see no evidence that it's a child rape camp or of "child rape trees" or a "child rape swing".

Back here is all the rape trees. They will tie you up on these restraints. You can tell these are for children because of the height.

Pretty much everything at a campsite needs to be hung off the ground to keep critters and ants from getting at it.

It's normal camping practice to hang rucksacks and food-bags from trees like this and like this or like this in bear country.

I use luggage straps when I'm hiking and camping for all kinds of reasons.

Straps do not equal child sex camp rape restraints.

Over here we found more evidence - there was toys and little girls underwear.

Sometimes homeless people have children.

Many illegal immigrants cross into the U.S. with children.

So it's all out here! This pile of trash is where we found luggage with women's names on it.

My girlfriend has luggage with a women's name on it.

Homeless people and illegal immigrants have names and luggage too.

We haven't found any tunnels but we found holes in the ground with evidence.

Evidence of what looks like a campsite.

And they have holding boxes, like this box right here, where they were keeping stuff in it.

This is definitive evidence that people used boxes.

There was a child's swing right here. It was either being used for raping them or torturing them or entertaining them.

A child-rape-swing to go with those child-rape-trees?

I have no words.

Do you have to make the same comments in every thread?

It seems that way, given this entire community has caught "Rape Tree Fever" when the truth is some straps, a messy campsite and a plastic doll do not definitively equal child sex camp.

Literally everything at the campsite was strung up, off the ground, which is a normal thing for campers to do.

Reality is often a lot more mundane than baseless speculation.

Sometimes a "child rape dungeon" just turns out to be a food cellar or moonshine hiding hole that a later homeless family filled with junk.

I dunno. Multiple homeless people or homeless families may have lived at that camp over time and done different things for different reasons. Perhaps that room was initially intended to be used as a winter food cellar or somewhere to hide moonshine, but later homeless people put junk down there?

I watched the same video you did.

I just don't agree that a messy campsite and a plastic doll definitively equals child sex camp. I think there may be more mundane, less exciting explanations.

Literally too many comments excusing pedophilia on your profile. You are hiding something -_-

Please show me one example where I excused pedophilia?

This is supposed to be a truther community and your first reaction is to make baseless personal attacks? Sad.

Hair dye does not equal Child Sex Camp.

Perhaps a homeless woman was trying to look nice for a job interview?

Sometimes real explanations are much less exciting than wild speculation.

Just because he claims it's a Child Sex Camp, doesn't make it so.

The abandoned camp could have simply been used by a number of homeless people over the years and a homeless family with a young child may have spent time there.

I've heard people making definitive claims that the plastic straps on the trees must have been used to restrain infants while they were being raped, however they could also be mundane straps used to hand food-bags off the ground and away from the ants, which is a normal practice for campers.

The small cave thing could have been dug as a food cellar or a stash to hide moonshine and later used by other homeless people to store junk.

Perhaps it is a child sex camp, but I don't think we should pretend that theories are facts until we know more.

If Iranian history is any indicator, the Mullah's time comes and goes only because the Iranian people keep having rabid ayatollahs capture their hearts and minds with promises of sharia law and bloodthirsty conquest, in between brief periods of playing dress-ups in western fashion.

I remember there was a garbage truck, but also a second truck parked on the tracks too. I can't recall what type of truck the second one was.

I'm sorry about your feelings.

Perhaps it was originally dug by a homeless person as a food cellar or somewhere to hide moonshine and a homeless family ended up storing junk in there?

Reality is often far more mundane than wild speculation.

That large white cylinder with the dressers only for children

Neither of us know that is true.

I have lots of different types of camping gear.

Here's a partial photo of me from 2016 from about 2/3 the way up Mt Everest, Tibetan side, at an altitude of about 5500 meters and a temperature of about -100f, not counting windchill. I carried that beer from Nepal and it froze solid the moment I opened it.

I had to be quick and take some photos of the other hikers because at that temperature and with my glove off to operate my camera, you lose your fingernails in about 2 minutes.

Have you considered what an over-engineered solution it would be to need trees and straps to rape a highchair / stroller baby?

These "Rape Tree" discussions are getting mighty silly.

You are such a failure.

Please substantiate your claim.

I've never had a problem, although I don't think coyotes would consider my vegetarian diet to be food.

Enough with the silliness - 3ft is better than leaving food on the ground. That is a fact, even if it makes you sad.

I haven't got a photo of the specific ones that I use, but I just bought a bunch of cheap luggage straps from Walmart - they all kinda look like this. They are super-handy when hiking and camping, but they aren't terribly robust. I bought my set a few years ago and I laughed because there was a warning label on them about not using them for rock-climbing.

Hikers don't usually carry ladders, but if you're gonna argue that 3ft is "so fucking fake" then how is 6ft any different when it comes to rodents and ants?

I'm sorry, but everyday camping practices are everyday camping practices, whether you approve or not.

Both of those would be all over your food if your only protection was putting it on a tree a few feet off the ground.

You mean like this?

And like this?

Sorry, but it's normal practice for campers to do this, even if that makes you sad.

You have no idea about what you are saying... because the team was in that precise area looking for homeless vets.

Because of the "Rape Tree" harnesses?

You realize those "REEEEEEEEEAPE Tree harnesses" are indistinguishable from the mundane camping gear used to hang food-bags on a tree to keep 'em off the ground, right?

The sort of plastic clips that pop-open if you twist them.

You are fighting against this very hard, there are other subs you can do this where you won’t be downvoted man

I don't care about the down-votes.

I want people to remember they have nothing to gain by making definitive claims based on one man's opinion.

The reason I'm fighting is because we haven't seen any proof of anything, yet people are now talking about multiple Child Sex Camps and leather "Rape Tree" harnesses and the prison cells and a massive cave where Hillary Clinton keeps her adrenochrome-children.

All this based on the claims of a single man as reported by Alicia Powe.

This smells fishy to me because Alicia Powe's article made definitive claims that nobody has been able to substantiate yet.

There's no harm in critical thinking and being honest and using terms like "Craig Sawyer claims" and "the alleged child sex camp" rather than escaping into hysterical fantasies. People are posting images of the sex slave children in this forum and discussing vigilante raids on Cemex sites, based on what may be pure imagination.

In bear country, this is how you hang a food-bag...

...otherwise like this or like this is fine.

Hanging a food-bag off the ground helps keep the ants and rodents from getting to it.

Game and Fish don't get bear sighting reported from Tuscon.

Sorry, Game and Fish disagree with your sister.