>>4440628

There is no Q source. Q source is unsubstantiated hypothetical and changing to fit unbeliever guesswork, primarily used to discredit Jesus and Christianity in general.

It's nothing more than that.

Could launch into a number of reasons why the guys who put this crap together are full of it, but the short version is they think they see contradictions between the writers and accounts, and they then speculate, hypothetically, that the events were recounted wrongly between these writers and a speculative unsubstantiated outside party, Q.

The reality is that variations between Matthew, Mark and Luke are "Divinely Intentional."

Today's political/military Q may turn out to be the real deal "in those arena's." Time will tell all tales on this Q's count.

But speculative hypothetical unsubstantiated piecemeal Jesus quotes Q never existed.

The unseen writer is referenced by John the Apostle, right here:

John 14:26

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Jesus Seminar and Q postulator's are BOGUS POSERS. In the former case of members, they voted with colored beads if they thought Jesus really said something, or not. Then proceeded to rewrite their own bible(s), as it suited them.

And we may also face the fact that the bulk of Gentile Christianity is founded on Paul's teachings and engagements, who, like all the other writers, sourced their information directly from OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES and the history of Israel.

A matter that the Q source guesswork entirely ignores.

You can chase Q guesswork, but you may as well give up on understanding scriptures.

>>4441666

I don't know why you keep claiming there is a Q source. The supposed Q source is unsubstantiated, hypothetical, recent postulation.

>>4441736

I'd suggest you don't have any idea of what you are shilling.

>>4441982

You baked a non-existing recently invented turd and expect it to be taken credibly.

Unfortunately at these boards there is a pack of rabid anti-semites who tend to show their fangs from time to time. The thread starter (anti) Bread baker appears to be so inclined.

If he knew a whit about scriptures there would be no claims to Christian believers being "rabbi's."

Rabbi rabies is a bad bite.

Acts 23:6

But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

It must irk the anti-Jew crowd to no end that the basis of Christianity is JEWISH.

Romans 3:

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Anti-semitism does not come from True Christians. I count the Roman catholics as part of the anti-Semite pack as well.

"Cum nimis absurdum was a papal bull issued by Pope Paul IV dated 14 July 1555. It takes its name from its first words:[1] "Since it is absurd and utterly inconvenient that the Jews, who through their own fault were condemned by God to eternal slavery…"

www. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cum_nimis_absurdum

Oh really? Eternal slavery?

Where did Hitler get his ideas from? Read the link. The Roman catholics mastered the art of condemning people to burn alive forever, and started with the Jews. But that condemnation wasn't enough for them. They had to go for the press of Jewish extinction.

The baker should come out of his anti-semite closet, in the interests of transparency.

The notion that scriptures came about from theoretical Q or even the Apostles is false.

Jesus and the Apostles taught from what?

SCRIPTURES.

What scriptures were they referencing?

THE OLD TESTAMENT to which they ALL referred.

John 5

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Matthew 21:42

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Matthew 22:29

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Matthew 26:56

But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Luke 24:27

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Acts 17:2

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 18:28

For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

All before a New Testament existed.

The opening of understanding scriptures was done by Jesus and the Apostles.

It hasn't stopped.

>>4451918

Brilliant deduction! Not hard to pick up from the scriptures, if they are read.

>>4455217

I generally agree with your assessment of leaven, as not necessarily good, but there are exceptions, here for example:

Matthew 13:33

Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Because this is "parable" we have to use Jesus' dissection tool to understand this (and all other) parable.

In Mark 4:3-4 Jesus delivers a parable.

In Mark 4:15 Jesus provides the "dissection tool" to understand (all) the parable and this applies also to the parable in Matt. 13:33 as well, above.

In Mark 4:15 there are 3, count 'em, THREE parties involved with every parable. The parties are God (His Word), mankind and Satan, the devil.

There are the 3 measures of the woman also.

In accordance with many of the archetypes in scripture, this basic 3 principle is played out many times in many ways. The 3 temples of the Old Testament, the 3 temples of the N.T. and the 3 Babylon's are some of my favs. All of these are "linked" to the same 3 party principle Jesus gave us in Mark 4:15.

In order for man to live by EVERY WORD of God, Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, the scriptures, by necessity, move in the directions of allegory, parable and similitude's, which also revolve around the same 3 parties, God's Word, man and Satan (and his family, which includes devils, children of the wicked one, sons of Belial, thorns, thistles, briars, wicked spiritual Jezebel and the Whore of Babylon from Rev., to name a few.)

If anyone has dissections of allegories or parables or similitude's without these 3 parties present, they are void and partial understandings.

An immense amount of parable is used in the Old Testament to describe Satan for example, as a leviathan, a dragon, a serpent, a viper, Pharaoh, etc. The engagements of Pharaoh (yes, all literal, but) still allegorical=parable to Satan and his various actions/antics.

Even Ishmael is used as an allegory of Satan.

Genesis 16:12

And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Ishmael is a picture of the flesh or natural man, blinded in mind by the "god of this world" exactly as Mark 4:15 describes, and generally delineated to ALL the blinded by Satan masses by Paul in other places such as Acts 26:18, Romans 11:8, 2 Cor. 3:14, 2 Cor. 4:4 and Eph. 2:2.

That's how Paul deployed Ishmael in Gal. 4:29, and it's personal to EVERY PERSON. Both the statements from the O.T. and the N.T.

So, yeah, the Kingdom of Heaven is very much like 3 parts of LEAVEN.

God's Living Word saves mankind and riles up, resists, condemns, judges and eventually destroys Satan and his family.

Do we really think Jesus is coming back to kill human babies?

Revelation 2:23

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Since the works of Satan are also upon us all, in the flesh and mind via at a minimum, evil thoughts which DEFILE us, and sin being "of the devil" our technically relationship with God is NOT A ONE WAY STREET OF LOVE ONLY.

There is reason to fear and tremble before our Maker, because it's not "just individuals" that God deals with when dealing with mankind. God's also dealing with the unseen adversaries upon us all.

Happy Halloween! Er, uh, I mean, Merry Xmas!

>>4457952

"I do 100% in God."

Good for u.

>>4460904

Of course Jesus had what we might see as "enhanced" parables i.e. parables, with meaning that is understood.

Prior to the disclosures of Grace and Truth, it was not so boldly stated for example, that all parables are broken down and understood (Mark 4:13) by a single parable, identifying the parties involved with every parable (Mark 4:15), God, mankind and the devil(s). In retrospect, this understanding is "inferred" from the beginning of the scriptures, but it's masked or hidden.

There is no Q source as it's postulated. God's Word came through the natural body of Israel, the called out, the wanderer's, the chosen, the elect.

Jesus wrote the scriptures prior to His Own Incarnation.

I don't disagree about the selection/elimination of texts by other parties. The words of "any person," past or present, written or oral, can be parsed by Jesus' Understandings, to perceive both good and evil, accuracy-truth and lies-hypocrisy.

Keep in mind I believe all people are saved, and all devils, doomed and damned.

In the Ways of Christ, these two parties are presently overlapped within the ALL, including me and you and everyone else at this board.

A party earlier ranted about what good is it to declare these Words of His, and not focus to do only physical good and screw the rest of the stuff.

Christians are essentially driven to realize the Eternal Perfection of God in Christ. Some may think it Quixotic and a waste of time.

Christians are promised an end to dishonor, weakness, corruption, sin, evil, the devil and his messengers, and eventually even the power of death.

We are not called without purpose.

Everything has meaning. Everything has purpose, one way or another.

1 Corinthians 15:24

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Matthew 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;

and then shall the end come.

In case you forgot already, for the end of what, see above.

The Gospel is NOT just declared to mankind mankind only.

There is a kingdom unseen that is also involved and addressed in the Gospel. And it is the Word's of God that make that kingdom aroused, empowered and revealed, prior to THEIR DESTRUCTION.

The Word is a Two Edged Sword. His Tongue of FIRE. And, contrary to every blinded person, it does work also in TWO WAYS.

There is no legitmate cause of offense to any man with God's Words. They are all meant for our LIFE.

And likewise, there is no cause of offense to be against evil, sin and death, even though we all walk this present life with these also in and on our (left) hand.

>>4463727

I'm sure you are justified and saved by clock watching for the official start of Satur(n)day, on Friday, precisely at 6pm, Jerusalem time.

yawn

>>4465056

You're trying too hard to be a bad caricature of a messianic Jew

>>4471969

Everyone has sin and evil present with(in) them.

The sin and evil present of believers is more sinister and deceptive. They, almost to the person, believe that others will fry alive for their sins if they don't believe like them, while their sins get off SCOTT FREE.

It's called hypocrisy. And yes, the churches have dripped with it for quite some time now.

They'll pretend to love their neighbors, while simultaneously condemning them all in their hearts.

It's the only thing y'all have in common.

Matthew 23:15

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

When anyone figures out their own sin and evil present is demonically sourced, it's not hard to figure out who is in control of them. AND who Jesus Speaks WOE to.

The devil does enter hearts, where the Word is sown. Mark 4:15. The proof is set right before our own eyes, by the conveyances of the so called believers.

It's a sorry thing to watch.

>>4472861

Who's we?

No christian has ever made themselves sinless. That's another fantasy of hypocrites.

>>4472962

Do the "we" think they are better? The we should pay attention to Romans 3:9. We are no better.

The opposite is the case, particularly when believers sentence other sinners in their hearts to burn alive forever. It's the mark of hypocrisy.

Paul understood the principle of Mark 4:15 very well. So did John. 1 John 3:8.

No one makes the devil less of a sinner.

Paul in 1 Tim. 1:15 declares himself the chief of sinners, after salvation. He knew who his enemy was, and it was not our blinded by the god of this world neighbors. 2 Cor. 12:7

>>4473037

We are no better than the common unbeliever.

Going to church, confessing, repenting, none of that makes anyone sinless. No, not one. Most of the time all those actions make the practitioners think they are sinless though, and makes them hypocrites and dishonest too.

>>4474900

You really should learn to pay attention.

Sin is of the devil. Yeah, even yours.

The devil ain't getting off the hook.

We can provide cover though, huh?

lol

>>4479394

Indwelling sin and evil present never depart the flesh, are never justified, sanctified, obedient to Christ, faithful and never will be. Romans 7:17-21

Romans 2:

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Romans 7:

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

When the devil is correctly brought into the picture of sin, it's an accurate picture.

>>4479470

Y'all can cover up your sin and provide excuses for the devil under the guise of faith or going to church on Saturday or any number of other vain religious exercises, but it won't cut it.

Jesus sees right through that crap. Bank on it.

Luke 4:4

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

It would be nice if Jesus would blast the wax out of believer's ears so they'd stop condemning their blinded by the god of this world's neighbors to burn alive forever RATHER THAN rightfully placing that DIVINE FATE upon the "god of this world" where it belongs…

BUT, this is a reality to FULFILL scripture:

Matt. 13:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

How much of that WORD applies to MAN?

Every last jot and tittle.

The instant you hear a liar in your own head telling you otherwise, you've been HAD.

Don't you realize that the basis of JUDGING THE DEVIL, THE WICKED MESSENGER rather than our blinded neigbors is the very BASIS upon which to…

LOVE THEM?

Get a clue you blinded damners of our fellow man.

Put judgment where it belongs. Start between your own ears.

How many times does Jesus have to repeat the lesson?

Luke 18:

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified RATHER THAN THE OTHER: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The abasement that GOD puts upon THE OTHER is hypocrisy, lies, and the belief that other sinners who are just like them are going to burn alive forever. This is the ANTI-REWARD in this present life given by GOD IN CHRIST.

And the bearers are going to look pretty stupid, in the end. Fortunate for them Jesus will given them the Divine Bailout, regardless, along with their unsaved neighbors too.

Why? Because there is another party involved with mankind. The devil and his messengers. They will take the real RAP, in the end.

In Israel sins were put upon the GOAT. Get it yet?

Leviticus 16:21

And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

Paul understood the PRINCIPLE that man will live by every Word of God. Not just the parts we like to heap upon ourselves:

Matthew 7:17

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Knowing the scripture, Luke 4:4, that man shall live by EVERY WORD, how much of Matt. 7:17 applies to every one of us?

EVERY WORD. Not just the first part of that scripture.

Wanna see how this FACT was put into action by Paul?

Romans 7:

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

You think Paul exempted himself from Matt. 7:17: but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. ???

Think again. Try to read through the hypocrisy and lies fog in your religious monkey brain.

>>4480032

Yer gunna figure out one of these days that God's Words provoke the devils in man.

Feeling provoked yet?

Here's the inside scoop. See if you can keep Luke 4:4 in mind, that EVERY WORD of God applies to MAN for life. But MAN is not the only party involved with MAN.

Mark 4:

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

What form does this internal defiling OF SATAN take?

Matt. 15:

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

A discerning reader might even notice that these evil thoughts are thoughts against God's Words of LAW. Imagine that?

Here Paul puts these scriptural facts into action for himself:

Romans 7:

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Pretty simple, that is, if you believe what Jesus and Paul said is true for yourself. But unbelievers not only will not, but can not believe the facts for themselves.

Here's another working of that same Mark 4:15 fact:

Romans 11:

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

How did God do that to unbelieving Israel? By SOWING HIS WORD in them. Satan entered, blinded and stole from them, caused EVIL THOUGHTS against GOD'S LAW's and IS the spirit of slumber and spiritual blindness upon them.

It's a very real phenomena, to this day.

And it's openly evidenced even moreso by so called believers (who are really just demonically held primates) who promote that their fellow man, whom we are commanded to love, actually burn alive forever. You can't get any FURTHER AWAY from God's Command than that.

What did Jesus say about the men who nailed Him to His Cross?

Luke 23:34

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

What did Stephen say when he was stoned?

Acts 7:

60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge.

They knew what was really going on, inside these people. And it was not just people.

When Paul received his direct mission statement from Jesus, what was it?

Acts 26:

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

NO ONE TURNS from what they deny they have and they do not because they CAN'T SEE IT. They have been effectively BLINDED by Mark 4:15 and they DENY that Word is to them.

Even more! When Word is lifted up, the reactions are progressively adverse to the FACTS. Cursing denial is what Peter experienced for example, on the night that Jesus was entering His Last Steps of being murdered by DEVILS in man. Peter also was experiencing Mark 4:15, first hand, just as he had before in:

Matthew 16:23

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan:

Only the blindest of the blind think Jesus was speaking to Peter and not SATAN. Peter was NOT Satan, but Mark 4:15 IS in operation here.

Same principle happened with Judas:

Luke 22:3

Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Why are "ye," plural, so DUMB? Go figure.

>>4485529

All people are going to be saved by Jesus, either at death or enmasse, at the end.

And all devils will be utterly destroyed.

Yet you don't seem to hear any good news?

Reeeeek on

>>4493346

Only because your eyesight has been throttled back by the adversary:

1 Timothy 4:10

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

I have no problem with the eternal destruction of the wicked, providing that the wicked are the devil and his messengers.

All people on the other hand are God's children. A position well established by scripture and orthodoxy. Deut. 14:1, Psalm 82:6, Matt. 23:9, Acts 17:27-29.

Your sight is in direct conflict with Jesus' Own statements of Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4, showing that man will LIVE, by every Word of God.

Instead, you see the exact opposite, which marks YOU as a pawn of the OPPOSER of God in Christ.

Now you heard the Good News in any case, and your restricted eyesight won't mean a thing to God in Christ. It's merely the hatred that you bear in the flesh toward your fellow man, whom we are to LOVE,

in case you forgot, which you did.

>>4492793

Anyone who disagrees with you is a shill, which basically means everyone.

>>4504822

I trust God in Christ to be against indwelling sin and evil present within everyone, ALL of which is of the devil, not the person. 1 John 3:8

You want to TRUMPet the Word? Then take "every Word," not just the half that you like. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4

WHEN we take in every Word, we'll find both good and evil in ourselves, and God in Christ being for FOR us, and AGAINST evil/sin.

Simple lesson on every Word.

All believers like to baste themselves with only the good stuff. That is a sign of internal deception and theft by SATAN. The Word doesn't even blame and accuse you for such blindness. The Word puts the hammer unto whom it belongs, the spiritual adversaries.

To understand, all the parties to the drama have to be on the table for viewing.

Scriptures do not see just man or just a person. Scripture sees the person, the child of God AND the spiritual adversaries that ALL of us bear internally and deal with constantly.

Picture a Sword, cutting us in HALF. One side of God's Word is for us, the other against our adversaries, who happen to be in the same shoes.

The more this fact is lifted up, the MORE the adversaries RESIST in the person. The sun/Son shines on both GOOD and EVIL, the just and the WICKED.

When we read of the wise man and the fool, BOTH parts apply to US, not just the HALF part of the good that we are falsely led to tickle our ears with.

Condemnation, Adverse Judgment and Damnation in God's Word is JUST AS VALUABLE.

>>4502543

Here's a simple lesson on how to read and understand the basis of Word/scriptures.

When we read scriptures such as:

Mark 4:

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

We should easily be able to recognize in the above there is the person and there is the adversary, Satan, attacking/stealing internally in the person.

Do you see just another person? If you do, you've been stolen from.

If you think that Word is only to some other person, again, internal theft.

That person is YOU and the ADVERSARY.

Every Word of God APPLIES to everyone. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4

Did Paul teach the same things? Absolutely!

2 Cor. 4:4

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

Same set of questions. Do you see only the person? That person is YOU and the ADVERSARY. But because YOU do not see TWO PARTIES and think it's about someone else, you are technically an UNBELIEVER of that presentation of THE WORD and have been STOLEN FROM by the adversary blinding your OWN MIND.

Eph. 2:

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Same set of questions. Do you see only a person, OR do we see accurately, that scripture addresses the person AND the spiritual adversary in/upon the person, which of course would be the devil, Satan, and his little seeds planted in your own sorry hide.

Recognize your CURRENT STATE as Paul did:

Romans 7:

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Al least Paul was honest about it, thankfully.

No dishonest person, a person BLINDED to the half of the Gospel they DON'T WANT OR LIKE TO HEAR by the god of this world, will ever HEAR Every Word of God and apply it personally.

Yes Virginia, God IS against the EVIL PRESENT in you and in everyone else, regardless of how much religious whitewash we paste upon the flesh.

>>4522989

Turning up the VOLUME doesn't mean you'll hear, does it?

FAct is, the opposite/opposer hears and resists like a common puppet, between your own two ears.

>>4525774

What is it you're after again?

Oh yeah. Saturday sabbath. And everyone who doesn't believe like you is going to burn alive forever.

IN other words, a typical yawner, sleeping at the wheel, claiming to be what? A christian? lol

>>4527490

Exodus 20:

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Same LAW from Paul, no conflicts:

Romans 13:

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely,

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Somehow when it got to you the COMMAND got turned into a deadly weapon of mass destruction.

But then again, that's what Satan does, IN MAN.

Romans 13:

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

You're not alone of course. 99% of the people sitting in church pews think that nearly everyone but themselves is going to burn alive forever…but then again,

That's what Satan does IN MAN, particularly in religious folks. Mark 4:15, because they are more exposed to The Word, therefore the resistance movement against God's Command takes them captive, and their last state is worse the the first.

Good luck diggin yer way out

>>4530318

Cut to the chase. IF anyone doesn't do the "SABBATH" as you (Lord only knows how) propose, are they all going to burn alive forever?

Sick of you dancing around the head of a pin point

Having assessed the law including Saturday sabbath, I determined several decades ago from scripture that the sin and evil present with me was not getting off the hook by hiding under any guise of protection, including Sabbath.

Simple lesson in honesty. Jesus hated hypocrites, especially of the religious ilk.

There is nothing wrong with Sabbath observations or not murdering or not stealing, but if we do not love our neighbors as ourselves none of it means jack.

People kill people in 2 ways over doctrines or religious understandings. The first method is internal killing of neighbors, by committing them to burn alive forever for (whatever reasons.) In it's more severe form they physically kill others, as we saw in the dark age churches.

I don't chase God for blessings any longer. It's a waste of time and extreme deception, in light of the reality of the condition of the flesh.

Any notions of "we do X according to the scriptures" and God is forced to bless us or be merciful or kind or any other good thing is an everyday common lie trumpted from every lying pulpit to the masses of consumers who are all to eager to buy into it to benefit themselves.

God's Hatred is much more appealing to me.

And much closer to the facts of scripture to boot.

God Has Two Eyes.

He Loves All.

He Hates the same ALL.

The question is WHY on the later count. And for that, the scriptural answer is quite obvious.

Romans 8:10

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

No one is getting past the obvious. No, not one.

The only REST (((that will arrive))) is when sin, evil and death are put off, and out of the picture for ALL PEOPLE.

Until then, it's all baloney mix, which brings a current requirement to guard up.

Half of everyone is meant for the chopping block. Whether we see it or not probably doesn't matter much other than it helps to not be a pawn of that working which will ultimately be utterly destroyed by God in Christ.

Rev. 21:

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Anyone who thinks they have found rest while the entirety of humanity and creation wallows in sin, evil, sorrow, crying, pain and death is smoking religious crack.

>>4528215

Seriously, sick fucks.

The sand nigger version of God can kiss my ass. Any who do this kind of thing should be hunted down, and killed for the demonic human killing predators they are.

When the world is full of religious adherents who believe other people are going to burn alive forever, it's a real short hop to mere killing of the body (after gang raping, of course).

John 16:

2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Fortunately we employ "others" to do our dirtier work, like killing killers.

No amount of pubic religious yodeling on loudspeakers is going to change anyone. It just pours gas on the fire.

When God said "thou shalt not kill" half the world rose up, to resist that law. Funny how that works, if it wasn't such a sad reality.

What the hell were those girls and their families thinking, to go hiking in the middle of these asshats??? They are fucking crazy.

Liberals are seriously messed up in the head as well. Ask for predation, receive.

>>4528346

Don't you realize that you are doing exactly what you are chiding others for? It's called circular logic, senseless logic:

You: "Again, how many children have the faithful ones adopt and raise and support as their own? None? Well then, again, you failed to follow Gods words in the bible. Yet you have a nice home, food, job, and a savings account, so the faithful false prophet preachers "select" whatever they way to follow, and ignore other words in the bible - making them false prophets.

So what Godly power granted you his heavenly powers to judge fellow humans on his behalf?: " /

He sez, whilst simultaneously reeking in judgments.

Let's observe that half the world is evil, and the other half works to cover up their own evil.

It's a much more accurate picture.

1 John 5:19

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

Both halves of that picture above are true for EVERYONE.

IF christians were really honest, there would be a lot less of them:

Romans 7:

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Paul terms the practice, "accusing and excusing." Accuse others while excusing self/group. It's a wicked little game that people's heads play with them, religious or not.

Romans 2:

5 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Pauline honesty is much more refreshing. When he did good, he understood that evil was still present with him, that sin still dwelt in his own sorry hide, that his sin was of the devil, and that there was no excuses available, for anyone.

Romans 3:19

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

No exceptions. No, not one.

>>4536669

Paul:

1 Timothy 1:9

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Paul:

1 Timothy 1:15

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Paul did not have any issues with the law being against the sin indwelling his own flesh, and the evil present with him.

He knew that there was NO WAY for these internal workings to be

Lawful. Ain't gonna happen.

Hence, Grace/Mercy

and rightful damnation to the devil and his messengers for ALL SIN. 1 John 3:8

Of course to come to this understanding one shouldn't expect devils in and upon their own sorry hides to agree.

Paul:

2 Cor. 12:7

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

You see when you SEE this reality, the devil is at a disadvantage. When blinded however, the pawn has no clue of being pawned.

Paul

2 Corinthians 11:3

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

IF anyone thinks they are not engaging the adversary within, and think their evil thoughts are merely their SELF, they are in fact deceived.

The SELF is not alone.

There is us, the individual, there is the adversary, and, for believers, we understand JESUS is in the midst or between the two parties.

Best to learn the differences.

>>4537405

Oh yeah, yer gunna get such a big reward for practicing the Sabbath, just like the other grubbers who are going to get a big reward for pronouncing the proper Hebrew name of Yeshua (or any number of given derivatives.)

Divine brown nosers might not get the reward they seek, particularly when constantly distributing threats of eternal burning hell to everyone who doesn't "do like they do."

Don't you know what you measure to others is the reward YOU GET? Didn't Haman teach you anything? Except instead of gallows they substitute eternal burning in hell.

"For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."

>>4549947

Israel of the Old Testament is a picture of the first man, the man blinded by sin. The man, deceived by the wickedness of his own heart, thinking the man pleases God by following the law, or even by actions of good intentions. The blinded man thinks God does not see this reality for themselves:

Jer. 17:

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Deceitful above "all things" is an exceptionally powerful statement. When we gaze upon the observable universe, and understand that within ourselves it is US who bear the deceiptful above all things, the desperately wicked, it is impossible to think ourselves as "legal or obedient." Thus, the deception that was upon Israel of the Old Testament.

Paul does tthrough great lengths to (gently) describe this condition. For example, in Romans 7 his discourse places the deceitfully wicked operating in his own mind in vs. 7-3, reacting in direct opposition to the law, "do not lust." Paul was being openly honest, showing deceitful and wicked within himself, in complete accordance with Jer. 17:9. Many of the O.T. prophets understood the same things about themselves, and decried their own darkness:

Job 42:6

Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Isaiah 6:5

Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts

The entire book of Lamentations revolves around Jerimiah dealing with his own darkness, and the darkness upon the nation of Israel.

What did Paul understand about these things, and about Israel. After he gets through dissecting his own sin indwelling his flesh, and the factual evil present within him, he launches into describing the condition of Israel, in Romans 9. And we have to pay close attention. Paul just finished trashing himself, in complete honesty and transparency in Romans 7.

lecture fagging, continued:

For Israel, Paul stated thusly:

Romans 9:

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Just as Paul alienated himself from the sin that dwelt in his flesh in Romans 7:17-21, he now shows this same state upon the blinded people of Israel. And concludes in vs. 18-24 the two vessels in the same lump called "me." One bound for glory via the receipt of God's Mercy, and the other, tolerated for the time, until their eventual destruction. Paul does the identical teaching in Gal. 4, summarizing in vs. 29.

So how was Israel blinded, and by whom?

In Romans 11:8 Paul stated clearly, citing from the Old Testament, that God Himself blinded them by placing the spirit of slumber upon them. By showing this placement Paul differentiates the people, whom God has not abandoned, from the spirit of slumber or stupor that was put upon them. Again, two vessels, the person and the spirit of slumber.

Only a remnant is left upon the earth at any given time to see this reality. The rest will be (spiritually) blinded, according to the purposes of God. They will not see their own evil, their wicked heart, the vessel of dishonor, that has come upon themselves. They will think it is only them between their own two ears. There eyes will not see the reality of their internal wickedness. They will stand under the law and think themselves off the hook for their sin and evil.

However, this clearly will not happen. God's Righteous Judgment is and remains against all sin and evil, in whomever it is found, and it is found in ALL.

Many of the more esoteric statements of Jesus can be easily and readily understood when we understand our current state in the flesh. For example, in order to be a disciple, according to Jesus, we have to hate ourselves. This of course brings and instant conundrum to the blinded, who falsely claim God in Christ only loves them. This assuredly is not the case. God's hatred remains upon the internal wickedness within all. And, He has quite purposefully put us, against our wills, into that position, which Paul shows in his summary in

Romans 11:

32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

So here, and everywhere where so called believers gather, they all prescribe the good things upon themselves, while fully and openly and totally ignorning the other side of God's Ledgers Words.

Paul's call by Jesus was to open people's eyes to the reality of darkness and the power of Satan upon their minds. Acts 26:18. Paul described the spiritually blinded as those who do not see that their darkness is in fact "of the devil" in their own minds. 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2, even for himself in 2 Cor. 12:7.

Whether we accept the facts of scripture or not, to understand the scriptures we should understand that The Word addresses two separate and primary parties in the same person, two vessels.

Jesus gave us the key to understanding in Mark 4:13 and 15, identifying HOW people get blinded. When God sows His Word, Satan enters the mind/heart to deceive, to steal, to blind, to destroy.

And the open evidence of this blinding is actually exemplified in the believers themselves. They exonerate themselves for sin. They avoid any type of adverse judgments of God, turning God into a double dealer, only good to them but bad for others (see our Sabbath whiner here for example.) This is called hypocrisy. And they openly lie about their own sin/evil, falsely thinking they have none. And to top it off, the openly condemn people who do not believe like them to fry alive forever.

Not one of them realize that fate is meant for the spirit of slumber, the spirit of disobedience, that has descended upon themselves.

We'll all see clear enough, in the end, at the finale.

>>4550972

Titus 3:2

To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

If you are ever granted the understanding and LOVE of God's Harsh Speaking to evil present and sin dwelling in the flesh, you'll have two feet, solidly planted in the dung of the earth, that is, your body.

Isaiah 37:31

And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:

>>4551269

Your every post, translated:

"I am justified and you are not."

One trick pony, commonly rode by feigning believers.

>>4551974

I'm inclinded to truthful Christians:

1 Timothy 1:15

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Liars and posers don't interest me much, other than to torment them with God's Word Facts.

The simplicity of scripture:

God looks upon every person who has ever been born as a perfect child of God Himself.

And God simultaneously sees the devil who has deceived us all.

Divide there, and conquer.

>>4590560

Romans 1:18

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 7:21

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Matthew 10:27

What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light:

Acts 26:18

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Romans 13:12

The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

The first cloak of darkness to shed off is dishonesty. The second, hypocrisy.

No liar is free, but is a captive. of darkness

Here is the voice of a free man, the recipient of God's Mercy in Christ:

1 Tim.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Few are called to aspire to the chief of sinners seat, because it is a bitter pill to swallow.

Captives are led to lie, and hide, in predictable fashions.

Hear the voice of devils in believers?

Matthew 7:22

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

A free man in Christ will understand that every Word of the above is applicable to us (Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4), or more accurately, the darkness we all bear in the flesh.

ALL work iniquity. Sin is of the devil.

Again, hear a free man in Christ:

Romans 7:

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Jesus' Words above are the last divide statements, unto devils in believers.

Believe and receive.

The same truthful facts Paul laid upon himself, post salvation, can not come forth from the mouths of liars and hypocrites.

It is impossible for liars to tell the truth. Their mouths are shut up, and their tongues can not speak truthfully.

When was the time that any heard from a religious leader that evil was present with them, that they did evil, that they are the chief of sinners, that they have a devil in their flesh, and that their sin is of the devil?

Never!

Yet these were the statements of Paul.

Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:17-21, 2 Cor. 12:7, 1 Tim. 1:15

Follow the leader or follow the hypocrite liars?

Paul takes our flesh to uncomfortable places.

>>4595640

You're seeing just fine from what I've read so far, just so ya know. You bear the Mark, not the missing mark. Easy to observe:

"Furthermore they killed their enemies : defined by a mere disagreement of doctrine, rather than loving them; further demonstrating that they had no respect or understanding for the word of God."

I haven't amened here for awhile, so,

AMEN to those MARKS

In order to LOVE our neighbors as ourselves and even our enemies, it is necessary to see past the flesh and observe what is going on inside the boxes of the resistors, and for that we may employ Jesus' dissection in Mark 4:15.

If we hear, we'll see more than "just a person."

>>4608526

What is it with believers, that they can't see the obvious???

Romans 7:

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

1 Tim. 1:

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Romans 7:

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

There's a reason for our Savior. We have an adversary. Sin is of the DEVIL. 1 John 3:8

Paul was no exception to having an adversary in his own flesh. Neither is anyone else, an exception.

2 Cor. 12:

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Blinded denial. The Words of the Day.

>>4622994

What's up with you idiots? You think killing all the looooos are going to make your SIN any better or the world any better? T

alk about a blind slave man. You're tagged and bagged in yer head.

>>4622474

Another link to blinded nonsense.

The COG49 link you've been pimping for several boards is just more void blither.

The opening salvo is that Jesus is basically the devil.

What the hell is wrong with people?

Oh, that's right! Sin is of the DEVIL.

Assessment of our own internal spiritual adversaries is vital to understanding scripture and life.

Cog49 is worthless bullshit.

>>4625411

The majority of believers blindly discount the operations of the adversary in their own minds and hearts.

From a scriptural perspective, it's not really them doing it, but the devil doing it upon them.

Paul did not exempt his own flesh or mind from interactions (internal) with our spiritual adversary.

In fact it's at the heart of his teachings and discourses, by the directives of Jesus, given here:

Acts 26:

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

That turning doesn't cease at the point of belief. We aren't "saved" from what we deny we have (sin) or deny we engage (the adversary.)

We do ALL have sin and our sin, from scripture perspective, is OF THE DEVIL, our adversary. 1 John 3:8.

Most believers are instantaneously led BY THE DEVIL into denials of their state of existence. They falsely think in their minds that their minds and hearts are exempt from interactions with our spiritual adversary. -→ This is not the case and never has been the case for anyone. We all engage the adversary IN MIND.

Therefore, God does not look only upon "me" the individual. Scripture looks upon "me" and also upon the "adversary."

Seeing ourselves in this way will also change how we see things.

Yes Virginia, your sin is real and your sin is of the devil, whether we like to hear about it or not.

It is the devils in people who don't like to hear about it and will instantly BLIND anyone who tries to HEAR. Happens all the time. Because those operators do not care for the LIGHT OF EXPOSURE. That's how they are built, to deny that LIGHT upon THEM, as Paul noted here for example:

2 Cor. 4:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

When the LIGHT is turned ON, you'll see the adversary in your mind and heart.

When the LIGHT is denied, you won't see it and can't see the facts.

Even though Paul can openly state he did EVIL, that he was the chief of sinners after salvation, that he had evil present with him, that he had a messenger of Satan in his own sorry hide, believers will instantly drift off to sleep when reading those facts and they will even MORESO deny that these scriptural facts apply to to their own sorry hides.

Instant deNILE. It's the state of mind the adversary brings to those in the dark.

Why is this critical? Scriptures have provided us a real internal bad guy/shill that is NOT THE PERSON.

When we see this fact, we know the path to LOVE ALL OUR NEIGHBORS whilst simultaneously resisting the adversary within them.

Dual Vision is mandatory. But rare.

>>4625811

I automatically assume that christians believe their unsaved neighbors are going to fry alive forever, because that's what the majority of YOU hold forth. It's only a question of whether or when you'll be honest, and spill your guts on the subject.

Most of you are very sick in the head on the above count unless and until stated otherwise.

Jesus IS The Savior of the world. That applies to ALL the people therein. Not just you and your little packs of wolves in sheep cloth.

Isaiah 25:7

And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

>>4627119

Are you trying to say you insist your unsaved neighbors fry alive forever in the Name of Jesus?

lol

NEWSFLASH of the BLIND…billions of people make Jesus a non-Savior. God is made worthless and ineffective by MAN.

lol

The God of most of your minds is a JOKE, a bad caricature of God.

God is presumably powerful enough to do whatever He Wants, donchathink?

Fortunately it won't be what most of you think, instead.

I'm going with He Gets The Job of being A Savior actually DONE including all your demented torture the majority of humanity if fire forever God versions getting pushed aside.

Phil. 2:

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I'm kinda thinking that God won't be cutting off the tongues those who disagree, like his supposed representatives here on earth have done.

Bunch of phonies…the lot of 'em

>>4630754

I'll admit people who want to burn other people alive forever are not my favorite forms of devils in mankind.

>>4635679

You may not be. If not, then good on ya.

I ran a scan of terms at your link when I first came across it here a couple boards back or so, for positional references on Satan/Devil. They were sorely lacking scriptural integrity, and basically made "man" into the devil, which is a red alert for me and probably many, even in orthodoxy(s).

The short version for dissections of all positions that make "man" the devil or Satan runs into instant trouble understanding Jesus' Temptation by the devil, Satan, i.e. just another guy out there in the desert with Jesus or even maybe Jesus tempting himself as Satan.

It's a valid assumption that if the writer scripturally fouls on that count, it's probably fouled on many more.

It's not unusual though. I read an entire doctrinal thesis from a Dr. of Theo. to be a few years ago about the law and there was not a single reference to Satan. Since sin is transgression of law and sin is of the devil, 1 John 3:8, you'd think the scriptural facts would be worth an honorable mention. The guy had no clue about what he was writing about.

Blame shifting from Satan to man is fairly common in academia. They're too smart to think there are actually invisible agents called Satan and devils.

>>4635077

More akin to driving positions out of the woodwork where people like to hide what they really stand for.

Catholics for example hate to hear about their anti-Semitic past and they try real hard to cover up the facts that anyone who doesn't agree with them on every scriptural count is worthy of death. They prefer to hide these facts to make proselytes, double sons of hell. Matt. 23:15

But give most of you enough time and you'll be extorting anyone who doesn't believe like you with threats of hell as well.

Happens all the time "in church." That's what they do. That's why they suck and people are leaving in droves.

Even the unsaved can smell the stench of ripe dripping religious hypocrisy and have sense enough to stay away from it.

The last people anyone should believe are the liars who stand behind religious pulpits. Worse than politicians. They are, for the majority, "killers in heart." Vicious wolves.

Ever Ready to promote burning their unsaved neighbors alive forever at the drop of a hat while they peddle their ever changing pet escape stories.

>>4647647

I'd suggest you turn up reading and comprehension skills rather than straw man impositions.

1 Tim. 4:

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

I'm not the only one who can read.

I also believe in the UNIVERSAL destruction of the wicked in the eternal LoF. The devil and his messengers.

>>4648202

Similitudes, allegories, parables, symbols is tricky territory.

Where most stumble in this arena is the failure to realize that there is an invisible kingdom presented in the scriptures, in Matt. 12:26 and Luke 11:18 for examples, and the "occupants" of this kingdom are not visible agents.

Jesus provided the pathway to understanding "all" parables in Mark 4:13 to Mark 4:15, dissecting His Own Parable and divulging the characters in Mark 4:4 in Mark 4:15, to which Paul also refers to in Eph. 2:2 and other places.

The components of similitude/allegory/parable are God's Words, mankind and Satan.

If any of the 3 are missing, and you should be able to guess which one is almost always missing, then the dissections are OFF BASE. The missing component is always Satan and his kingdom & occupants, which technically RULES over all the spiritually blinded. Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2. This understanding is also at the heart of Paul's teachings in Romans 9:18-24, Romans 11:8 and 2 Tim. 2:20-21 for examples, showing the invisible components factors.

ALL of the adverse symbology that is deployed thoughout the scriptures revolves around the invisible kingdom and it's occupants in some form or fashions.

That's why it's quite pointless to look at just mankind or geography or history. None of these encompass what is not seen. And as we know the "Kingdom" does not come via observations. It's an INTERNAL MATTER.

The amazing part is that even though it is set right out in the open to be seen, it's still missed by most of the readers, and invariably directed some other way, any way but the direction intended.

Revelation 14:8

And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

This type of "fornication" is not external, but internal. Mixture of man and devil.

Revelation 18:2

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Now harken to the parable in Mark 4:4 to get a look at the fowls who can not be seen, and SEE THEM for what they are, repeated, three times, is, is, is followed by 3 forms of depictions, all speaking to adverse spiritual agents.

The internal resistance movement IN MAN that is NOT MAN is always a factor in scripture, always. And this will be the case until THEY ARE ALL TAKEN AWAY at thee end.

The HOPE of the Gospel revolves around the eventual and final destruction of Satan and his messengers, and their RULE over the flesh of all mankind, inclusive of believers.

It's a hard pill to swallow for anyone, but scripturally, it's a simple fact. Paul in the below was given a permanent reminder of the state of his own flesh, just so he wouldn't forget that God is not just dealing with Paul:

2 Cor. 12:

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

And every blinded believing slave will CRY OUT, that this does not apply to believers or particularly themselves.

Reality is though that all are sinners and sin is of the devil.

Do the proximity math.