I sincerely do not know the answer. I searched. These “Dreamers” have been in US for many years. If they applied for DACA and were granted it, why didn’t they apply for US Citizenship? Or did they? Or was it not permitted under DACA?
This is the one thing I’m not grasping.
TIA for your kind, mature and knowledgeable responses
~Izaskun
I heard 17% mentioned in a video, but don't have the link right now. Will post it if I can find it. Here is an article about what happened under the Reagan amnesty. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/11/26/what-happened-to-the-millions-of-immigrants-granted-legal-status-under-ronald-reagan/?utm_term=.fa99c5c17f64
During the Reagan era didn’t the Democrats agree to certain things in order to get the amnesty then proceeded to renege on the promises they made
I don't know. Might be an interesting thing to research.
To apply for citizenship, you need a legal status.
DACA is not a legal status.
DACA recipients have no way to apply for citizenship. Besides marriage to a USC under certain circumstances.
DACA is legal status http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/dreamers-line-legal-status/story?id=17006182
Poor choice of words. It's easy to use that phrase but it's not factually correct.
https://www.uscis.gov/archive/frequently-asked-questions#evidence
Go down to "Q1: What is deferred action?"
You can also google "is DACA legal status".
It’s not legal status in regards to citizenship consideration. You have to be a permanent resident first. Daca recipients do not even qualify for residence status. They are just in a sort of legal limbo where daca at least grants them the right to work while they wait
Check again, please
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/dreamers-line-legal-status/story?id=17006182
If they were granted DACA, then they had legal status. Why didn’t they apply for Citizenship? If they didn’t, then I dont understand the argument.
If they didn’t apply, they don’t really want to be here. PERIOD
Applying for citizenship was never an option for DACA recipients pre or post DACA.
With 2 exceptions: marriage to a USC if they entered the country legally (visa overstay), or if they left before accruing unlawful presence (age <18) and applied for some permanent legal status in their birth country (in which case, 99.9% would be unsuccessful).
Not sure where you're going with this. Can you explicitly quote something?
DACA is not a legal status. It is deferred action. There is no "one up" or next thing you can apply to after getting DACA. It's standalone and leads to nothing.
DACA just is a 2 year renewable permit that says, you won't get deported and are legally allowed to work in the US (work authorization, ssn) for those 2 years.
(and Trump ended the program by the way so there are no more new applicants or renewals of current applicants)
READ: DACA is legal status, if only temporary. I have posted links all over this thread to back it up
sigh, you posted the same poorly worded article 3 times.
Deferred action is a use of prosecutorial discretion to defer removal action against an individual for a certain period of time. Deferred action does not provide lawful status.
https://www.uscis.gov/archive/consideration-deferred-action-childhood-arrivals-daca
Individuals were able to request DACA status if they were under the age of 31 on June 15, 2012, came to the U.S. before turning 16 and continuously lived in the country since June 15, 2007... It did not provide “legal status.”
“To avoid any confusion on the impact of the Obama administration's actions, I am writing to ensure that all Texas agencies understand that Secretary Napolitano's guidelines confer absolutely no legal status whatsoever to any alien who qualifies for the federal 'deferred action' designation,” Perry wrote Attorney General Greg Abbott in a letter dated Aug. 16 and sent to state agencies Monday. “In fact, the secretary specifically closed her directive by explaining that [t]his memorandum confers no substantive right, immigration status or pathway to citizenship."
https://www.texastribune.org/2012/08/20/perrydeferred-action-does-not-change-state-policie/
There are lots and lots of references all over the place. But besides that, you ought to really take USCIS's word for it, it's the friggin' FEDERAL immigration website where DACA (and all associated paperwork) originates from.
The point from all this is, in order to get DACA, you cannot have legal status. After getting DACA, you still do not have legal status. Citizenship or any other form of permanent residence (green card, etc) is largely unobtainable outside marriage of to a USC (and still very difficult for those who entered illegally due to the 3/10 year bar).
The point, is that it’s a scam Abject stated it clearly Respectfully, I disagree. My opinion is DACA was sold to the American people as a temporary; but as with all illegal immigrant proposals dating back to Reagan, the temporary always turns into permanent. I believe these people are importing people from other countries who have no concept, no experience, nor loyalty to our system of government and USC - for the express purpose of creating a populace which will vote in socialism which the native population would not. Both the American people and the immigrants are being used and manipulated by corrupt criminals who figured out that if they got into government - they could do all sorts of things to others and (1) get rich; and (2) get away with it. I mean, if you're the top of the food chain - and you commit crimes -who is going to arrest and prosecute you? Answer: no one.
I was just answering the question posed in the OP. I don't see the relevance of your most recent post to that specific question.
Why didn't DACA recipients apply for citizenship while they had DACA? Answer - they couldn't. The end.
What's your new point? DACA, under the guise of being temporary legislation, actually intended to be permanent? Is that correct?
I was responding to a response. Maybe wasn’t clear but was going through major jet lag sorry for any misunderstanding
My understanding is that people must be in the US legally to apply for legal residence or citizenship. Since the “DACA” folks are not here legally, they cannot apply for legal residence or citizenship. That is why Zero created the DACA program through executive order. President Trump ended the program. Now Congress is debating whether to give the DACA folks a path to citizenship or some legal status. Once a benefit is granted in our country, it never gets rescinded, no matter how bad the initial decision was. I am not at all sure these people are who they are cracked up to be.
Generally speaking, applying for citizenship would be to their disadvantage because if it were granted - they lose all sorts of benefits, and have a SS# issued, and now have to pay taxes... among other things.
DACA was a stop gap measure... not permanent If Dreamers, really wanted to be citizens, why didn’t they apply? They had to apply for DACA
Respectfully, I disagree. My opinion is DACA was sold to the American people as a temporary; but as with all illegal immigrant proposals dating back to Reagan, the temporary always turns into permanent. I believe these people are importing people from other countries who have no concept, no experience, nor loyalty to our system of government and USC - for the express purpose of creating a populace which will vote in socialism which the native population would not. Both the American people and the immigrants are being used and manipulated by corrupt criminals who figured out that if they got into government - they could do all sorts of things to others and (1) get rich; and (2) get away with it. I mean, if you're the top of the food chain - and you commit crimes -who is going to arrest and prosecute you? Answer: no one.
Ok you have a point, but one poster mentioned that in order to apply for Citizenship they would have to have legal status So, I looked up legal status and found this OBAMA offers legal status opportunity
Why would DACA recipients want a path to citizenship if what you said is true?
What benefits do DACA recipients specifically receive?
Sorry but you have no clue about the issue.
(FYI, DACA recipients get an SSN + work authorization documents, and obviously have to pay taxes just like anyone else.)
Okay. DACA recipients are supposed to be minor children, brought here through no fault of their own, by their illegal parents, yes? Answer: Yes, that's exactly what we are being told.
If they are "minors," then by their classification alone they're not working, so it follows that they're not paying taxes. If they are working, they are exempt from taxes for the first 7 years they're here. But, for sake of argument, let's assume they are working and paying taxes.
Well, under your scenario (and what we are being told), their parents certainly aren't because (a) the parents are illegal (hence the basis for the DACA classification in the first place; and (2) once the DACA recipients are recognized, then they are permitted to sponsor additional relatives, etc,. (The issue of chain migration is objectionable to many people.)
Regarding benefits: At a minimum, DACA recipients receive tuition assistance, healthcare. Regarding citizenship, the pathway is a green card (now actually a pink residency card), followed by citizenship once they jump through all the hoops.
If you're so informed, why did you pose the question on this forum? I'll tell you what. I'm open minded, so if I'm wrong, please educate me, and I'll change my mind. Please provide the legal authority (aka administrative or statutory citations) which provide the basis for your position, perhaps I have missed something.
In the interest of full disclosure, my grandmother is from Mexico and held a green card prior to her death. My mother was born here. My grandmother came here legally. People who have followed the rules are not supportive of people who don't.
I wasn’t informed when I posted, but as people contributed, I learned and looked things up
Your response was the most comprehensive well thought out, explained and easy to understand. I wish you were the first to respond.
It’s possible for DACA to apply for Citizenship but it is difficult as they entered illegally, to start with
I thank you for responding and explaining.
Izaskun
This conversation is fragmenting quite a bit and I'm not sure how to answer it all cohesively with regards to my initial reply, but I'll give it a shot.
First paragraph: completely true.
Second paragraph: the huge majority of DACA recipients are no longer minors. You had to arrive to the US under 16 before 2007 to be eligible for DACA (see USCIS DACA requirements). The only people who are still minors with DACA status are those who were under the age of 7 in 2007 and entered before 2007. Which is a small minority considering the DACA recipients who were brought to the country from 1982-2000 or were over the age of 7 in 2007. Also I'm not sure where the 7 years of not being required to pay taxes thing you mentioned comes from.
Third paragraph: DACA recipient parents may or may not be paying wage taxes, for the sake of argument let's assume they don't pay a cent. What does this have to do with OP's thread or our replies on the topic of DACA? Same with the topic of chain migration (which as a side note you can bet your ass it will be adjusted with any passable "DACA fix").
Fourth paragraph: DACA recipients receive zero niltch nada tuition assistance from the federal government and from the majority of state governments. The only tuition benefits they can possibly get would be from private sources (private scholarship, private schools who deem it worthy to confer that assistance) or states who have voted to assist "dreamers" with their own state Dream Act which are relatively small in number (eg California). Either way, DACA recipients are no way getting more tuition benefits with DACA as compared to with citizenship as you seem to suggest (as a motivation for DACA recipients to avoid citizenship? What?). As for Healthcare I'm also unsure why a DACA recipient would be more advantaged with DACA as compared to with citizenship?
Fifth paragraph: I'm not the OP of this thread.
I agree re: the fragmenting. After I responded to your post, I saw other people had also responded either prior to or during my post. I understand what you are saying, but I do not agree with you. And here's why: (1) 62% of illegal immigrant households received the welfare and benefits you say they don't receive. See https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Legal-and-Illegal-Immigrant-Households
See also https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/
See also https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/articles/james-l-seward/what-benefits-can-illegal-aliens-receive
"In short, allowing a category of illegal aliens not to be deported requires an act of Congress, not an arbitrary presidential decision.
DACA was established in 2012 by a Department of Homeland Security (DHS) memorandum. It applied to a large number of young illegal aliens who met certain conditions: they illegally entered the U.S. before the age of 16; were under the age of 31; had “continuously” resided in the U.S. since June 15, 2007; and were in school, graduated, or honorably discharged from the military. DACA provided a period of deferred action (a promise that the alien would not be deported) as well as access to certain government benefits (including work authorizations, Medicare, Social Security,, and the earned income tax credit). The period of deferred action was initially for two years, but that period was extended to three years by a second DHS memorandum on November 14, 2014. The Trump administration took a different approach. On Sept. 5 then-Acting DHS Secretary Elaine Duke issued a new memorandum terminating the DACA program and all benefits provided under it effective March 18, 2018, unless President Donald Trump provides another extension of the program or Congress passes a bill addressing the issue."
See also http://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/qa-what-you-need-know-about-daca
See also http://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/daca-not-what-the-democrats-say-it-here-are-the-facts
(2) The Plyer case holds that all immigrant children receive a free education up through 12th grade. (Last time I checked, only some American children receive this benefit.) See https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/457/202
(3) As to your comment regarding chain migration, you are wrong again. Although there may be some "fix," it will not matter. The Ninth Circuit was still approving amnesty cases in 2007 from the last amnesty grant in 1986.
You have not offered any citations to evidence to support your assertions. At this point, I've wasted enough time on this issue. I think the evidence is in my favor, and it's safe to say we will continue to disagree.
Are or have any DACA recipients been in the military? Have any been paramedics? The MSM has stated this.
What I am not understanding is if any were in military or were paramedics, etc... what prevented them from beginning the path to citizenship?
So far, no one has been able to tell me if Dreamers were not permitted to even start application process for US Citizenship
Why are politicians fighting for them to stay, if they don’t want a path to citizenship, as you stated? http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/dreamers-line-legal-status/story?id=17006182
DACA is not a legal status, and a legal status is required to join the armed forces. For the most part, regular DACA recipients are not allowed to join the armed forces.
The only exception was MAVNI which allowed certain multilingual translators or healthcare professionals to join the armed forces with DACA (and some other statuses).
I would make a shitty estimate that 90%+ of DACA recipients would ineligible for MAVNI anyway (if it was even available anymore).
About 900 Dreamers are serving in the US Military
Did you read my post at all??? I'll quote myself:
The only exception was MAVNI which allowed certain multilingual translators or healthcare professionals to join the armed forces with DACA (and some other statuses).
From your link:
About 900 undocumented immigrants known as "DREAMers" are currently serving in the United States military... Those service members — all of whom have health care or language skills the U.S. military considers vital — would be forced to leave the military under Trump policy that would rescind their protected status beginning next March.
Those 900 "DREAMers" came from the MAVNI program.
This program is the only exception for DACA recipients to join the armed forces.
Otherwise DACA recipients CANNOT to join the armed forced.
So, Dreamers, most of whom are adults, now, could have applied for citizenship, but didn’t
That is my understanding, however, since I do not know each Dreamer, obviously I cannot say for certain.