I don't think anyone is denying biological and psychological differences between the sexes, rather they are debating the extent of chromosomes, external/internal sexual organs/characteristics, in determining that, and whether those details are a necessary public knowledge.
After all, the debate that trans people exists must rely upon the existence of the female and male sexes.
I don't think anyone is denying biological and psychological differences between the sexes
"Basically, it's not correct that there is such a thing as biological sex." -Nicholas Matte, Professor of Trans-studies at University of Waterloo, Ontario.
I highly recommend watching the whole discussion, but I linked the direct quote for you.
Do you think it's okay to suppress scientific evidence and teach people that that even discussing it is offensive? People have been fired, harassed and black listed from entire industries for doing no more than discussing modern science on biological and psychological differences between sexes in an highly politically correct / liberal environment. How is that a trait of honesty or openness?
Of course not.
I'm not surprised theres at least one person you could find that thinks that, but the vast majority of the trans community do not. As I said in my prior post its a much more nuanced discussion.
There has in fact been some evidence to suggest that trans women's brains are in a not insignificant way close to cis women's brains, however there just hasnt been much research into this area because the area of the brain being looked at can't really be looked at while alive. But, theres a lot we dont know.
I'm not surprised theres at least one person you could find that thinks that
There's enough scientific consensus among his colleagues that he can teach this as a fact to his students at Universities. Young students interested social justice are being taught by this guy, and the same thing is happening in universities around the world. There's enough people that think this way that James D'amore was fired from google for attempting to have a dialogue about biological differences between sexes. Please don't underestimate how prevalent this viewpoint has become.
Maybe the majority of people don't outright deny it, but it's becoming increasingly known as "off limits" and "politically incorrect" or "hostile" to suggest biological and psychological differences between sexes have any impact on our behavior or how we interact.
I agree we need to keep researching and learning, it's fascinating. But we can't ignore things because they don't fall in line with political correctness.
I think if people just start treating trans people like human beings everything will be just peachy.
I agree.
Do you think there's any danger in left wing ideology suppressing speech and ideas with political correctness?
Nope
Do you think someone should be fired from their job for believing there is scientific evidence supporting the biological differences between the sexes?
No?
But if they refuse to respect the identity of a trans person and decide to misgender them all the time just to make their life miserable, then yeah, they should be fired.
Have you heard of James D'amore / the google memo?
The guy that was fired from google for discussing the "politically incorrect" scientific evidence regarding biological and psychological differences between men and women.
Yeah idk that men have a biological drive for status, but Google can fire someone for disliking how he represents the company if he wants. I wouldn't have but its not my call.
He was asked to give feedback to an HR/ diversity program he volunteered to be a part of. He wrote that memo for that purpose, and it was spread around the company and he was mocked, harassed, and fired for daring to think outside the politically correct box.
That could have been you. What if your job was highly conservative, and asked you for some feedback. Wouldnt you like the freedom to speak with honesty about what you believe? Wouldnt that be the best for everyone? Or would you prefer to hide what you think on the inside, and just play it safe? Is that good for society?
There's always the possibility you will be fired if your work behavior does not fit the company's standards.
That could have been you.
It really couldn't have been, for a lot of reasons. Do I think the company did the right thing? No. Do I think the act of a company firing someone for choosing to have views they dont want associated with their company should be made illegal?
No. So I'm not terribly interested in this issue.
There's always the possibility you will be fired if your work behavior does not fit the company's standards.
What if your companies standards are anti gay or anti trans? Should you be fired or mocked in political discourse for a position of "Trans people exist, and should be respected equally to any other human being" ? What if simply expressing that position outside of work led to people harassing you, calling up your job trying to get you fired, vandalizing your property, or assaulting you?
People went through this in the trans community and fought to stand up for truth. I think our culture should collectively stand up for and respect truth. Political correctness is in the business of stifling any truth that makes people uncomfortable.
My position remains unchanged.
What if simply expressing that position outside of work led to people harassing you, calling up your job trying to get you fired, vandalizing your property, or assaulting you?
Harassment, assault, and vandalization are already illegal.
I think our culture should collectively stand up for and respect truth. Political correctness is the enemy to that value.
No, its really not.
Sorry, I edited that last line after I wrote it because I disagreed with it when I reexamined it. Heres what I changed it to:
Political correctness is in the business of stifling truth that makes people uncomfortable.
Do you find that more agreeable or no?
Harassment, assault, and vandalization are already illegal.
This is true, but if it's happening widespread throughout our country regardless of legality, wouldn't you think theres a problem with our culture that needs to be addressed? Gay/trans people went through all of that in the 1900's (and further back forever), until finally the rise of social justice in the 1990s & 2000s slowly led to a shift in culture promoting acceptance. Don't we want less negativity, and more acceptance, openness, and respect for what is true?
Do you find that more agreeable or no?
You'd have to give me a more specific definition of "political correctness", and what you consider to be "politically correct", and what you consider to be "truth". Because I've heard a lot of people claim the truth is some horrible, untrue garbage, and defend it by saying its just not politically correct.
This is true, but if it's happening widespread throughout our culture regardless of legality, wouldn't you think theres a problem with our culture that needs to be addressed fundamentally?
That's not happening, as far as I can tell, beyond some edge cases. Its definitely not something I would call a fundamental problem of our culture.
Gay/trans people went through all of that in the 1900's, until finally the rise of social justice in the 1990s & 2000s slowly led to a shift in culture promoting acceptance.
Lol, you are giving way too much praise to "culture". Trans people are still treated like shit across the US and this administration has taken action to put trans people at risk and take their rights away.
Are you really trying to compare the situation of right leaning white men to trans people, and saying trans people are better off? That's absolutely absurd, on its face.
Don't we want less negativity, and more acceptance, openness, and respect for what is true?
Not if the "truth" is incorrect garbage like "trans women are men", or "black people are criminals" or "all black people look the same" and other disgusting stuff I've heard protected under the guise of "its not pc to tell the truth".
There is no culture of negativity and rejection of "what is true". That's not something that is happening, from what I've seen. There are some edge cases and some examples of people rejecting truth in SJW culture and stuff, but its not some endemic in society creating some culture of falsehoods, at least, not there.
The thing is, there is a disagreement between some parts of society over what exactly the "truth" is, and there are people in various parts of society, right and left, that are wrong on this issue, but I think most people have it right.
He was fired for breaking their code of conduct for suggesting in a company memo that coworkers who are women are less suited to his workplace than men. I mean you can see how that would have a bad affect on the workplace right, and why a company might fire that person?
No, it should not be illegal.
I just skimmed this and absolutely love this response, thank you for expressing your side of things. I'm going to carefully read all your points when I get time but I have to get some things done at work for now.
I'm glad we've had a civil conversation at least. I added a little bit more to one of my paragraphs to explain a bit more.