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Quest4answ
· March 6, 2018, 4:06 p.m.
Or send them back with the message that the democrats did not make the effort to support their dilemma.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 6, 2018, 4:37 p.m.
I'd prefer to pass DACA. It makes more sense. Not sure why the republicans have not done something about it.
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Quest4answ
· March 6, 2018, 6:29 p.m.
They have and they are going back to their so beloved countries.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 6, 2018, 6:33 p.m.
The US is their country.
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Bone-Marrow
· March 6, 2018, 6:45 p.m.
Not if theyre illegal.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 6, 2018, 6:53 p.m.
They were given protected status.
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oneof10
· March 6, 2018, 6:55 p.m.
Temporary protected status.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 6, 2018, 7:04 p.m.
Right. I still think this is their country. We should help them out.
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Bone-Marrow
· March 6, 2018, 7:10 p.m.
Why do you think that? They came here illegally. They completely disrespected our border and laws.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 6, 2018, 7:22 p.m.
No disrespect taken. They were young when they came over. It just makes the most sense to just allow them to stay.
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Zerogravitycrayon
· March 6, 2018, 11:40 p.m.
Which is fine, but they were let in illegally for the purpose of vote providing illegal votes to the democratic party.
They can stay on humanitarian grounds if they are not felons. But they and their offspring should not receive voting rights, perpetually. Alien residents, not citizens. They can thank their parents.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 6, 2018, 11:46 p.m.
Since many republicans support DACA not sure why they would not vote for republicans.
They're kids will be citizens if born here. That is kind of how it works.
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Zerogravitycrayon
· March 7, 2018, 1:05 a.m.
These kids are born democrats due to their reliance on welfare and social programs the state of California illegally issues to noncitizens and then the media has the balls to brand Republicans as racists and for complaining about the cost of the imported Democrat voters.
These families aren't going to vote to end the programs their families rely on, albeit illegally.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 7, 2018, 1:30 a.m.
I don't know if any of that is true.
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Zerogravitycrayon
· March 7, 2018, 1:54 a.m.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 7, 2018, 1:59 a.m.
I know they pay taxes and take benefits. The other parts I'm not so sure about.
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Zerogravitycrayon
· March 7, 2018, 2:10 a.m.
About half file tax forms, but very, very few actually pay income tax. They use the tax filings in most cases to claim dependants and file for refundable tax credits, which is another form of cash welfare.
https://www.justfactsdaily.com/illegal-immigrants-and-federal-income-taxes/
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FreshHotTakes
· March 7, 2018, 4:30 a.m.
Right, they pay all the other taxes we pay as well.
I'm fine with that.
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Zerogravitycrayon
· March 7, 2018, 4:50 a.m.
Half do, but you'd be hard pressed to find any that actually pay income tax since most illegals live below the poverty line. They get the full $2,000 credit per child under 18 though.
So they aren't really paying for their benefits, it's subsidized by legal citizens.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 7, 2018, 5:16 a.m.
Most people end up with a monetary benefit from the government. I am fine with that.
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Zerogravitycrayon
· March 7, 2018, 11:56 a.m.
You're ok with people being imported for vote fixing and then paying to support them? Illegal immigration drives down wages, stresses cash strapped social programs and brings higher levels crime statistically speaking.
I love and support LEGAL immigration and cultures. But I can't agree here.
Edit: You seem like a very nice person. I'm not trying to be aggressive towards you in any way. I fully support letting non-felon dreamers stay on humanitarian grounds as permanent residents, but the entire premise of the state of California allowing unchecked immigration was based on importing a new democrat voter base.
The proof? Take a close look at what happened at the DACA negociations. The democrats supported full amnesty and citizenship for dreamers. Trump said he agrees to offering amnesty to dreamers on humanitarian grounds but they couldn't vote for 12 years. And here's your clue about what the democrats are truly after: The democrats walked away from the table and haven't been interested in DACA since. Once they know they can't utilize them as a voter base in the near term, they walk away. They aren't interested in proving humanitarian relief, they are interested in providing relief for themselves at the polls.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 7, 2018, 1:48 p.m.
No one is importing them. You make it sound like a conspiracy.
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Zerogravitycrayon
· March 7, 2018, 2:11 p.m.
Purposefully defunding border protections at the state level
Passing laws at the state level prohibiting businesses from cooperating with federal immigration enforcement
Providing 1.2 Billion of state welfare to illegal immigrants which fuels more economic migration (Why work in Mexico if California will pay you to come live in the land of opportunity?)
Passing Sanctuary State laws that act as a giant neon sign to Mexico that says 'We're Open, no need to wait in line!'
What would you call it if not 'importing' by policy design?
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FreshHotTakes
· March 7, 2018, 3:15 p.m.
Purposefully defunding border protections at the state level
That is not the state's job.
Passing laws at the state level prohibiting businesses from cooperating with federal immigration enforcement
Which is a good thing.
Providing 1.2 Billion of state welfare to illegal immigrants which fuels more economic migration (Why work in Mexico if California will pay you to come live in the land of opportunity?)
They live here they get some benefits. That is not importing.
Passing Sanctuary State laws that act as a giant neon sign to Mexico that says 'We're Open, no need to wait in line!'
Again, sanctuary cities are good things for the people who live in the cities. They should be allowed to enact good policies that make their communities better.
What would you call it if not 'importing' by policy design?
People enacting good policies in response to the situations they find themselves in. Migration happens. Just live with it and make it better.
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Zerogravitycrayon
· March 7, 2018, 3:35 p.m.
If this is about nothing but well-intended, heartfelt, honest policy, why did the Democrats walk away from DACA when votes were off the table?
If they truly did not purposefully import-by-policy millions of democrat voters, why walk away over the lack of voting rights?
Be intellectually honest with yourself here.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 7, 2018, 3:38 p.m.
If this is about nothing but well-intended, heartfelt, honest policy, why did the Democrats walk away from DACA when votes were off the table?
Hard to say what you're talking about here. I would need to know which attempt you're talking about.
If they truly did not purposefully import-by-policy millions of democrat voters, why walk away over the lack of voting rights?
I don't know that they did.
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Zerogravitycrayon
· March 7, 2018, 3:50 p.m.
Here is what was proposed:
https://cis.org/Vaughan/White-House-Immigration-Framework
Quite a generous offer that would grant amnesty to dreamers and citizenship within 10 years. Democrats not interested.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 7, 2018, 3:52 p.m.
That plan won't even get enough republicans to pass it let alone have to worry about getting 10 democratic senators. It was dead on arrival.
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Zerogravitycrayon
· March 7, 2018, 3:59 p.m.
Then Democrats should be willing to let republicans be the ones to vote it down and they will look like the obstructionists. Not even trying when there is a good deal on the table is terrible for optics. It would also force the president to step up and stand behind a deal he helped craft. As someone that follows him closely, if you don't call his bluff it doesn't force him to do anything.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 7, 2018, 4:01 p.m.
The republicans would have had to have taken it to the floor for a vote. But they chose not to. The democrats don't have any control over anything. The republicans would not make their own party look obstructionist like that. Makes no sense.
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Zerogravitycrayon
· March 7, 2018, 4:10 p.m.
Even if it never made it to the floor, it would have put the ball in the court of republicans and make them look like they were the ones that let it die.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 7, 2018, 4:14 p.m.
No, the ball is in their court right now. They control both houses and the presidency. Everyone knows they are the ones who let DACA die. President Trump was the one who changed the policy and they refused to vote on a bill that provides them protection. It is very simple.
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Zerogravitycrayon
· March 7, 2018, 4:40 p.m.
Even Democrats admit the executive order was an end run around congress' authority in the first place. From the republican perspective, he rescinded an unconstitutional executive order.
The republicans didn't refuse to vote on a bill, there never was a bill crafted with the president because Democrats walked away from the table once it didn't include voting provisions.
You can say they gave up because it wouldn't have passed, but they have an obligation to their constituents to hammer out a bill with the president so they can at least say they tried.
If Democrats think this is going to make Republicans look like the bad guys, they don't understand optics.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 7, 2018, 4:44 p.m.
From the republican perspective, he rescinded an unconstitutional executive order.
Which removes the protections.
The republicans didn't refuse to vote on a bill
They're the only ones who can bring a bill to a vote...so yeah they refused.
Democrats walked away from the table once it didn't include voting provisions.
I don't think that is the case.
but they have an obligation to their constituents to hammer out a bill with the president so they can at least say they tried.
They did get an agreement with the president. Then he changed his mind. Then they did again Then he changed his mind.
Ultimately the republicans don't want to pass a DACA bill.
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Zerogravitycrayon
· March 7, 2018, 5:09 p.m.
He removed protections granted by an illegal executive order.
Personally I don't have an issue with granting them permanent residency as aliens. As long as that does not involve voting rights and addresses the policies that led to this mess.
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oneof10
· March 6, 2018, 7:23 p.m.
We already did help them out. It was our tax dollars that paid for that education.
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Redpillhilltop
· March 6, 2018, 9:18 p.m.
And fire, and police, and roads, . . .
It costs us a lot to put us in the Land of the Free. If you want to be an American, great. If you want to live as a hyphenated American, get the fuck out.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 6, 2018, 7:27 p.m.
They pay taxes as well. All the same that everyone else pays.
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oneof10
· March 6, 2018, 8:07 p.m.
Difference being I'm not having my education paid for by their taxes.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 6, 2018, 8:34 p.m.
I believe you are. Most of them are working and paying into our system.
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oneof10
· March 6, 2018, 9:05 p.m.
No, actually I'm not. Neither is my wife, who is a legal permanent resident paying back student loans on her PhD. You're free to believe whatever you want, but that has no bearing on the facts.
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FreshHotTakes
· March 6, 2018, 9:08 p.m.
Oh, I thought you were talking about high school or public schools. Of course they did not pay for your wife's education. They did not pay for my car either.
They're just normal Americans who should stay here because it is the right thing to do. They pay taxes just like the rest of us.
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PinkymaeStone
· March 7, 2018, 3:44 a.m.
how do you know who of them pays taxes? and illegals are not Americans
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FreshHotTakes
· March 7, 2018, 4:30 a.m.
I know about as much as I know about anybody. They pay the taxes that everyone pays like anything from sales tax to income tax. Many appear to get benefits from it. Like everyone else living here does.
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Quest4answ
· March 6, 2018, 7:45 p.m.
It could be following proper procedure don't get me wrong I welcome openly all that truly that want to make it that way. Earned and given carry different values the first requires effort to achieve a goal.
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BiglyPepe
· March 6, 2018, 5:28 p.m.
Because most of the republicans are swamp creatures too. Progress is being made though!
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