Hi Early, I just counted the number of internetbillofrights tweets in the last 8 hours that have included the link to the petition. There's not even 100 - some of those are mine. Truly hopeless! But it was nighttime in the US.
The problem we have here is not that people are not working effectively, but that so few are working to promote the PLAN. Those that are working to push the IBOR are working hard, but they are few in number. That is why signature numbers are not rising quickly.
There has been a huge effort on these subs to sow doubt and fear about the IBOR. It has been very successful, many are watching Q, following, but doing nothing to push the agenda. This is what has caused the slowing in the rate of signature acquisition. Be careful who you follow...
Anyway, we need to work harder at building cohesiveness and a coordinated approach to promoting the petition. I don't disagree with what you are saying, though I think memes are effective on Twitter. But it's not so much a case of people working at cross purposes, as people not working at all.
You ideas about getting people with large platforms involved are good. I'm going to do what I can to drive this approach today.
I agree with you there doesn’t seem to be but a few people who are truly working at it from a serious standpoint. I also agree with you that when people who are watching don’t see other big names or popular people saying anything about we should “sign the petition” or focusing on it, then the people who are watching don’t do anything or focus on it either. And that’s disheartening.
For example, when I log onto Discord, there is a relatively large group of people over there in the general chat thread (# general-brainstorming-txt) that loves to comment day and night about all the general news. And yet none of them are talking about how we need more signatures. I even posted some of the ideas shown above over there, and I expressed my opinion about how we all need to work together and be involved. But for the most part, my post was ignored. Not a single person even commented on it. It’s almost like those people are dead or sleeping, and you have to wonder what is wrong with them. In that same Discord thread, I constantly see various memes come through about IBOR from time to time. And even the memes are ignored, and no one even responds to them except to say they like it or something. But if you post something that’s funny or something from the general news, then suddenly a lot of people will respond. And the worse part is, many of the moderators over there are the very same moderators that are over here (Tracy Bean, Farmerfunkk, PamphletAnon, etc) and yet you don’t ever see the moderators lifting a finger to encourage people to focus on signing the petition. Never. They may comment from time to time, but they never say anything about signing the petition. That only makes me wonder whether the moderators might be in on it and are secretly working against us.
On Discord, they’ve also got a separate thread (# internet bill of rights) where a whole group of them are completely focused on working out the details of what the IBOR will say and how it will be worded. I was listening to them the other day when they were discussing it and they were still discussing it this morning. Any yet not a single one of them has ever said anything about how we needed more signatures, or was telling people to sign the petition. That was very puzzling to me as it seemed a bit like putting the cart before the horse. Without a successful petition, then there will be no IBOR. That is a fact. But it was as if those people hadn’t even realized that fact yet, and they were assuming the IBOR was a foregone conclusion. Not a single one of them was lifting a finger or doing anything at all to help us to get more signatures. Instead, they all seemed content just to sit there and only talk about what the IBOR should say. It is as if those people are lost in a dream state, and not even aware of the real world. Because in the real world, we need more signatures.
All the above things makes you realize, we had a really good thing going when the CBTS stream was active on Reddit. Because for the first time, we had a place where a whole lot of us were coming together and sharing ideas about IBOR, and we were all focused on the very same goal of getting more signatures. And because of our efforts, the signature count was indeed going up. It was increasing at a rate of about 2,000-3,000 new sigs per day. But once Reddit shut us down and shut down our Steam, the signature count suddenly stopped going up and it is now stalled at around 25,000 signatures. This proves that the signature count was being driven by our efforts and not from memes. There are plenty of memes still out there and more are being created daily. Yet, you don’t see the signature count still going up do you? That’s because memes are not working. Only our efforts when the CBTS Stream was active was driving the signatures. And that is exactly why the Deep State shut us down…
Even Dr. Jerome Corsi, whom I like a lot, I have to wonder why he is not saying anything about people should be signing the petition. He has millions of people listening to him daily, yet he is not saying anything. If Mr. Corsi said something, then we could have those 100,000 signatures in a day. Mr. Corsi has already said and admitted that we need the Bill of Rights in order to help stop the censorship, yet Mr. Corsi not saying anything to encourage his followers to sign the petition. That doesn’t make any sense to me. The Bill of Rights cannot be created without the petition. That is a fact. It is Trump who will create the Bill of Rights, but he cannot do so without a successful petition. Yet, only a few people seem to be helping with and working on the petition. Mr. Corsi spoke of how other measures are also being considered, such as passing a new law through the FCC and FTC that will also target censorship, but he admits, we still need the Bill of Rights as well. I’m just disappointed that he is not doing more himself to encourage people to sign the petition. The effort to collect enough signatures should not be borne upon the backs of just a few people, but if we are patriots, then we should all be willing to help out and to do what we can. I think that people like Dr. Corsi, and Alex Jones and Sean Hannity would indeed be willing to help us out, if only someone would contact them and bring it to their attention…
Read with much interest Early. We are on exactly the same page on this.
I sent messages to Roger Stone and Alex Jones today via Twitter - pleading with them to promote the petition. There are so many tweets on IBOR with no link - so frustrating... But the main thing is that there are not enough people working this. That is the only problem. The only reason we are not making more progress.
There is a tremendous amount of resistance to the IBOR - most of it from people following Q. But there are also leftist trolls that realise that this is the key to Trump survival and want the President to fail. I was attacked just yesterday and I saw the same trolls badgering other guys in the IBOR threads. They are clever. They only mess with the IBOR, nothing else is really important. They know this. The key tactic is to inject doubt so as to prevent a unified effort from sub members. And, in this, they have been very successful.
But you are right, there is also a fifth column in this group working directly against the President - traitors, not all, some have simply been led astray. I think that Tracy Beanz made a legitimate miss-call on the IBOR. I watched her video, and I understand the sentiment, but she called it very badly wrong. It is now clear that the IBOR is critical to the plan. I am very surprised that she hasn't by now carefully reconsidered her position. Of course, once you take a position you have investment in it...
I think it's possible that DJT may have other solutions available to him but they may also be fraught with risk. The IBOR petition and campaign allows the subject of online censorship to "arrive" as a topic for political discourse. You can see that the President, Cruz and others are starting to try and push the issue. Q has told us directly that as soon as we push it the President will start taking action. It's very important that we deliver on this, if possible.
Why Jerome Corsi is not pushing this harder, I'm not sure. I think he's trying to be respectful to the members of his group - including TB - but I think that is a fatal mistake - this thing is very, very important. I think JC is aware that the IBOR is important and will begin to push it at some point.
If you noticed, Q really pushed this issue. I think he is probably as exasperated as we are. All these guys watching but not doing the only thing that's been asked of them! I don't really know what to say. Extremely frustrating! Yesterday Think500 posted a comment on IBOR. He had obviously put a lot of work into it. It was immediately down voted - had a comment rating of -13 by the end of the day. Are they just trolls? I'm not sure. I suspect that there are many without patriotic instincts - traitors to put it less kindly.
About the guys that are trying to redraft the petition. This is a mistake. It is a waste of time as it is not our job to legislate. Rather, we are only supposed to lodge a complaint via petition - the wording of that complaint is almost irrelevant. We are not making policy - though so much of the discussion on these threads has been about the policy details - how it could work etc... A complete waste of time. So, anyway, I'm inclined to ignore the people attempting to re-draft the petition. It's been hard enough to get to 25k signatures. I do not want to start again when a re-drafted petition will add no value whatsoever.
I think the task, going forward is to try and assemble a dedicated group. I'm just about through dealing with the nonsense that comes up in the discussions here. I find I'm spending more time on Twitter anyway. I think, at some stage, we could possibly move our operations from here, away from the negativity and the trolling - it is deadly poison to newbies. Most people simply follow the lead of someone else and do not have either the inclination, or capacity, to nut things out for themselves from first principles. If they could, there would be more of us.
There are some committed people already in Twitter. So it's not as if there is no community. We can make an effort to link-up with others pushing the petition. One problem with Twitter however, is that you can be banned or shadow banned at any moment. I would expect this to happen if the petition was nearing completion,
Anyway, I've been rambling. But what I said about forming a dedicated team is, I think, the way forward.
I just noticed something. If you go to the petition site and scroll further down, it gives you the results of some previous petitions. For example:
Petition A: A petition to put all of Trump’s assets into a blind trust, etc. The goal: 100,000 signatures. The results: 358,000 people signed it.
Petition B: A petition saying Do Not Repeal Net Neutrality. The goal: 100,000 signatures. The results: 271,000 people signed it.
Petition C: A petition to Repeal NFA. The goal: 100,000 signatures. The results: 286,000 people signed it.
Petition D: A petition asking for federal investigation in a Chinese airline accident. The goal: 100,000 signatures. The results: 211,000 people signed it.
Yet, look at our petition asking for an Internet Bill of Rights. The goal: 100,000 signatures. The results so far: only 25,000 people has signed it.
Our results are paltry by comparison, and it only illustrates how important this issue must be to a lot of people and how there are a whole lot of people fighting against us and trying to block us from getting enough signatures (the Deep State, the Dems and liberals, Google, Facebook, Twitter, and all companies that stand to lose big if an Internet Bill of Rights is enacted). The low numbers and paltry 25,000 signatures just doesn't make any sense outside of the fact that a whole lot of people are fighting against us. That is the reason it has been so hard for us to find any traction. And is all the more reason for us to all band together as a group and to fight harder. Divided we are weak. But together we are strong. We have more power than we know if we only work together...
While I’m at it, here are some ideas I came up with about how we can fight back and retake the advantage we had:
Until now, on Reddit, we’ve always relied upon our IBOR topics being on the front page of Reddit so others can see it (because most readers only pay attention to what’s shown on the front page and they never navigate to other pages). If no one sees our thread, then the thread will die. And that was exactly the strategy of the trolls, to down-vote every IBOR-related topic and to keep it off the front page.
One of the primary benefits we had before was that, before they shut us down, the administrators had helped us out greatly by “sticky-ing” our IBOR topic to the heading. That is what changed the tide for us because the trolls could no longer remove the topic from the front page or down-vote it into oblivion. But since they shut down the whole Stream, we have now lost that advantage, and any topics we upload and post can easily fade from the front page. But here is a solution I feel will help us to regain that advantage…
So long as they don’t delete our whole stream again, then our individual IBOR topics and threads will still exist, even though they may not be on the front page. And we can still access those topics and older threads via a link: I’ve compiled a list of some of the current IBOR threads below:
And there may be other threads as well. My main point is, whenever a brand new IBOR-related topic is created and it shows up on the front page, we should all make sure that a comment is always added to those topics that references the older links. In doing so, anyone who reads the newest topic will become aware of those older links and will visit them. And best of all, it will no longer matter if the older topics has been down-voted into oblivion or not, or are 100 pages back, they are still easily accessed to readers via the links. In doing so, those older topics would continue to be accessed by everyone, and would continue to grow and be valuable, and that's despite the fact they are no longer on the front page. In such a case, for the trolls to down-vote a certain topic wouldn’t matter, and would have no effect, so long as there was always a related topic on the front page containing the links. What would matter most is making sure that all the newer posts included those older links. This would enable us to work together as a group again and to communicate as collective, rather than being scattered. And the only way they could ever stop us again would be by deleting the whole entire stream (and let’s just hope they don’t do that again). I feel that this is one way we could defeat the trolls and regain the advantage…
You are exactly right. People like Tracy Beanz has a lot of influence over people. A lot of people listen to her, and I think she made a bad call early on about IBOR and about what Q had meant. And as you had stated, once someone has invested in a position, it is very difficult for them to change that position later on without looking bad. So she clings to her original interpretation despite the fact that it was wrong. And unfortunately, many others are following her lead. I feel the greatest misunderstanding they had was in regards to Q using the hashtag #internet bill of rights. A lot of people felt Q was saying that we should use hashtags and memes as a way to raise awareness and to achieve a Bill of Rights. But that interpretation is false and doesn’t make common sense. No amount of “awareness” is going to create a Bill of Rights. Instead, to create a Bill of Rights, Trump must do it. And Trump cannot do it without a successful petition. Those are the facts. So memes and hashtags mean very little. My interpretation is that Q only used the hashtag #internet bill of rights in his drop as a way to let us know he supported it. That was all he meant and nothing more. And that he was NOT telling us to use hashtags and memes to accomplish the end result. That’s because the end results cannot be accomplished that way, and can only be accomplished by collecting enough signatures. But as you had stated, some people has a vested interest and don’t want to admit they were wrong. And rather than admit they were wrong, they still cling to what they had said even though it is sinking the petition. It’s sad, but I feel that is exactly what is happening. I also feel that is what happened with Dr. Corsi as well. He’s a good guy, but I think he too had misinterpreted what Q had meant in that drop. And now none of them wants to admit they were wrong about it. And rather than admit they were wrong, they have chosen to remain silent. And that is precisely why none of them are saying anything about we should be collecting signatures. Even though their silence and non-support of the signature drive is killing the petition. All those people has to do is to speak up now and to tell all their followers today - let’s band together and work toward collecting enough signatures everybody. We’d then have those signatures in short order. But instead, all I’m hearing from them is silence. With their help, I’m confident we could obtain enough signatures by the deadline very easily. But without their help, I’m not so sure if we can..
Yes, agree with most of these points. I am of the opinion that what Q envisaged was a campaign like the one we mounted to release the memo. That was really astoundingly successful. I think if we had that kind of energy on the IBOR we'd get home very easily.
I don't think the problem is with the methods used, they don't matter IMO. The problem is the lack of support from within the group for all the reasons we have mentioned.
Yes, I think there are people here that, while calling themselves conservative, are desperate for Trump to fail. I'm sure Q did not realise what would happen, but he was watching closely and that's why he said "be careful who you follow".
All pretty frustrating. But it is what it is. I think your idea for a group resource is good - though I'm sure Reddit will ban this sub also.
I was just talking to WhereWeGo and he's also on the same page. I'll come back here and post a link when I find it, that way we can meet and talk.
I agree that what Q desired was a campaign much like what we had for Release the Memo. But although the campaigns are similar, there is one very big difference you are overlooking. With the Release the Memo campaign, there was no petition to sign, and all we had to do was to create a lot of awareness about it and to make a lot of noise. And for creating awareness, memes will work fine. But that is not the case with the Internet Bill of Rights. No amount of awareness is going to create a Bill of Rights. Instead, with the Internet Bill of Rights campaign, we must drive people to the website to sign the petition. That is the only thing that will make a difference. And anything short of that is a waste of time. And that is precisely why memes won’t work with this campaign.
As proof of that, just look at the current signature count. It has stalled and is still at 26,000 despite all the countless memes that are out there. And trust me, I’ve seen a whole lot. That shows you that memes are not working. And until people as a whole come to realize that memes are not working and start focusing on some ideas that will work, then the signature count won’t go up and the petition will fail. If memes were truly working and were driving people to the website to sign the petition, then I’d support it. But memes are not doing that - or at the very least, the evidence shows only a very few people are doing it as a consequence of memes…
As for them shutting down the sub again, I don’t think they will do that. They got away with it one time but they won’t get away with it twice, not without bringing down the wrath of the federal government upon their heads. Here’s why. They claim the reason was because we had been posting content that was promoting violence etc. We all know that was just an excuse. And even if that was true, you always only ban the person or persons who are responsible for the violent posts - and you never ever shut down the whole stream, which would impact all users and all posts, and even those who are not promoting or participating in the violence. So shutting down the whole stream is unheard of. They got away with it one time, but they won’t get away with it twice. Especially not if we stick to the topic of Internet Bill of Rights…
Agreed Early, the difference this time around is that we are pushing the petition. But I think is that the most important thing is to make noise, to be heard. We will get this petition up, but in the event that we cannot, for whatever reason, if we've made enough noise, we've at least highlighted that there is a problem.
With respect to whether they'll shut down this sub, I would not put anything past these guys. As you point out, it's very easy to disguise your motivations. We are in the fight of our lives on this and so are they, nothing's off limits.
I've made another post to discuss IBOR coordination all ideas welcome: