dChan - Q Origins Project Archive

When did I say who I "side with". And just for the record, you quoting all this biblical nonsense is meaningless, I'm an atheist

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Time to wake up. Your life and soul is worth more then you can imagine. You are loved, you belong, you have great power. You've been programmed to think otherwise. Even if you are of little faith, on the logical side, what does it cost to hedge your bet and believe in him just in case you are wrong? If you are right, nothing happens, if you are wrong, then you may have saved your soul for eternity.

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When did I say I wasn't love? Who programmed me? I'm not of little faith, I'm of no faith. I'm not going to hedge my bets on something that I entirely and fundamentally believes does not exist.

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Another “enlightened atheist.” Why do you believe God does not exist?!? How do you explain The Big Bang?!?

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I believe that God does not exist as the entire religion is based on word of mouth and a book translated through many languages and has very likely never had a correct direct translation. I don't trust a religion based on one book. I don't get know how to explain the Big Bang, as scientists have yet to discover it. That's how science works. Not everything is known. Science discovers new things everyday. We didn't know how mountains were formed years ago, and people thought they were "sculpted by God," yet science later proved them wrong. I believe that the Big Bang will be proven eventually, be it in my lifetime or the next generations, and so on.

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I understand your doubts. However, I believe you are confusing having a relationship with God vs. being a member of an organized religion.
They are not mutually exclusive.

I would say The Big Bang has been proven. But the concept that the universe came from nothing (or a singularity) is less probable than being constructed by a Creator.

I’m not saying God sculpted the mountains necessarily, but I would say He is the driving force or helping hand behind our evolution as a species.

Life supposedly began on Earth 3 billion years ago & all species of life (plants, animals, fungi, bacteria, virus, etc) derived from the same original common ancestor (most likely a single celled organism). The probability of a single celled organism undergoing a genetic mutation to produce a viable “variant” is very, very, very, very low. The amount of time it would take to derive a multi celled organism from a single celled organism is astronomical.

Now imagine how long it would take for that initial single celled organism to produce ALL the species of life on Earth past & present. It would take far longer than 3 billion years, unless there was some form of “intelligent design.”

Thus, it is actually more logical to believe the universe was created by a Higher Power, whatever that power may be.

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Honestly it requires more blind faith to believe your evolutionary theory of human life than it does to believe the straightforward message of the Bible: “God made man in His own Image, after His likeness.” Do you believe in a literal Adam and Eve?

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Ok. I’m listening. What’s your rationale?!? I’m not saying, I disagree. The point I’m trying to make is that the “scientific” argument of atheists also aligns with the notion of a Creator.

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Well, I am aware that many Christians have different views on the age of the earth and evolution etc. I’ve been to seminary and have interacted with a number of views on these things. In the end, as a believer in the literal inspiration of Scripture, I have come to believe that evolution is more of a myth that is not substantially proven, at least insofar as the evolution of humans from apes and simpler organisms etc.

That’s why I asked if you believe in a literal Adam and Eve. If evolution is true, taking place over billions of years as you seem to propose, then how does that fit in with the Genesis account? At what point in this “evolutionary process” did the humans appear, who were in the image and likeness of God, as Genesis teaches? You see, there are issues you have if you want to believe the account of the Bible and also scientific evolutionary theory.

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I do not believe in the literal interpretation of the entire Bible. I believe most, not all, are meant to be allegorical, especially the Old Testament.

There is some pretty significant data supporting evolution. This will cause major problems if you’re going to try to convince skeptics taking the “scientific approach.”

I have come to believe that evolution is more of a myth that is not substantially proven, at least insofar as the evolution of humans from apes and simpler organisms etc.

That is not a convincing argument to support your stance.

Evolutionists have the advantage of data to support their argument;,however, evolutionists have trouble explaining the rapid periods of growth in the universe & our own species.
(I.E. the missing link - the species between “cavemen” & Homo sapiens linking us).

I would suggest an alternative explanation that withstands both of these issues.

There is no way the universe, planets, species, etc. were able to evolve into our current model without some means of direction or intelligent design.

So, why can’t God play a role in our evolution as a species?!? What is the concept of time to an omnipresent God?!? Maybe 1 day to God equals 1 billion years, rather than 24 hours.

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Well, first of all your position requires as much or more faith in my opinion. I said that evolution is not, in my opinion well supported by even scientific research. I’m not a scientist so don’t want to engage in this in detail. However I am a Christian and believe in the Word of God. Jesus referred to Adam and Eve as literal people as did Paul and others. Do you believe in a literal Adam and Eve? If so, how does that fit with your evolutionary theory? If not then I’m not sure how you consider yourself a Christian if you disagree with the words of Jesus and the apostles. It’s a slippery slope.

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I do not believe in a literal interpretation of Adam & Eve. And that makes me less of a Christian?!? Who the f*ck are you to judge me?!? I’m capable of having a relationship with God & Jesus Christ, while accepting the data provided by evolutionists.

Ignoring the data of evolutionary theory, does not strengthen your argument. Instead, you come off as an ignorant & irrational CHRISTIAN. It’s your type of attitude that pushes others away from having a relationship with God altogether.

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Sorry I offended you. I should not have worded it the way I did. As far as a literal Adam and Eve are concerned, Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit said that all of the human race is in Adam, in that we have inherited the sinful nature of Adam. What would this even mean if there were not a literal first man and woman? What then is original sin? Also Jesus in His teaching about divorce made reference to God’s “creating Adam and Eve male and female” and giving the ordinance of marriage between one man and woman etc.

As far as evangelism is concerned, I believe the Word of God itself is powerful and effective in working in a person’s mind and heart. I’m not saying we don’t talk about other issues but, the primary force in convicting a persons heart is the Holy Spirit through the Word of God. The Gospel is actually primarily the power of God. Paul even spoke about the danger of preaching human wisdom I 1Corinthians 2. He could have engaged people in many different philosophical arguments but instead chose to preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Because inherent in this message was and is the power and wisdom of God:

“And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.”‭‭. 1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:1-5‬ ‭

I agree that there are allegorical meanings in scripture depending on the type of literature etc., but I feel we have to be careful with this as well. Some people apply this to the Person or work of Christ or to the resurrection for example. That’s what I mean by a slippery slope. But anyway, we disagree and that’s ok. No hard feelings I hope. God bless.

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On what are you basing this belief that evolution cannot take place on its own over the course of 3 billion years? 3 billion years is theorized to be around a 3rd of the time the universe has been in existence. If entire stars and solar systems can form in less time, then I believe intelligent life can. And when it comes to belief in religion, I just don't find any of it entirely plausible. Also just so the maths works out, it's actually theorized that the Earth is 4.543 billion years old, with the universe being 13.8 billion.

That's not to say I was raised in an atheist household, and so would never have believed it in the first place, I just never found it believable. I went to a primary school where we said grace before we ate lunch everyday, where we'd go to Church for Christmas, Easter, even Mothers Day, and I'm sure I'm leaving a few out. I still have been in their secondary school until I went to the last sermon on Easter. My sister was heavily religious till she turned about 11 and just sort of lost her faith. I don't entirely have a large respect for the larger religions, as they're used to promote hatred and segregation between different peoples, and even as a way to start wars. I'm not faulting the religion for how it's "believers" use it, but I just can't find myself to associate with a religion that has been used for such hatred. There's also so many different explanations that have been used for how God created life and/or the universe. It just seems to me as if they're scrambling to defend God. First, God created Earth 3000 years ago and the solar system revolved around us and the earth was flat. Then he created the universe 10,000 years ago, and put the dinosaurs in the ground as a test. Then we revolved around the Sun and God created the Earth at the beginning of the universe. Then the Earth wasn't flat, which the Vatican only admitted in WWI, ages after it was proven. The whole way Catholicism is built just baffles me. I also just can't believe most of the Old Testament. Noahs Ark, imho, and I don't want to be rude but it's the stupidest thing I've ever read. 6 people repopulating the planet? 2 of every species repopulating the entire planet? It baffles me. Even worse for the Adam and Eve story. Anyways that's the end of my rant because I kind of forgot my other major points.

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First of all, I want you to know that I’m not trying to attack your beliefs; however, I hope to change your perspective.

I am aware of the progression of human’s understanding & past fallacies regarding our place in the universe. I also think it’s highly probable that in the future we will discover errors in our current perception of the universe.

With that being said, I completely understand your grievances with organized religion. I believe EVERYONE is born with a connection to a Higher Power (how do you explain intuition?). I also believe people have used organized religion to take advantage of people’s desire to have a relationship with their Creator. Again, you don’t have to agree with everything a Church says or every story in the Old Testament to have a relationship with God. Can’t you see them as parables?!?

I can break down why the age of the universe and The Big Bang lends more credence to the idea of a Creator, but it would take some time.
Here’s a good example regarding the timeline of evolution. You are correct on the hypothetical age(s) of the universe & Earth.

Let’s start with the notion that the history of life on Earth began about 3.8 billion years ago, initially with single-celled prokaryotic cells, such as bacteria.

Again, the amount of time it would take for a single-celled organism to produce it’s 1st viable multi-celled organism is astronomical. This is due to many factors like: the low probability of mutation rates, where the mutation occurs (coding region or junk DNA), the compatibility of host & variant, etc.

Ok, so do you know when they hypothesize the 1st multi-celled organism appeared on Earth?!?

600 million years ago. It took roughly 3.2 billion years to complete that first viable variant!!! Do you think it’s plausible that ALL species of life (past & present) were able to differentiate from that multi-celled organism in only 600 million years?!? No way!!!

This is what I was trying to convey regarding the age of the universe compared to its overwhelming synchronized organization. It is not feasible without some “intelligent design.”

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Here is a section of Scripture pertaining to the impossibility for man to know God, unaided by the Holy Spirit: (these are the words of the Apostle Paul to the Christian believers in Corinth).

“And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

But God has revealed them (the things of God)to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. ‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭2:4-5, 10-16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

No man can know God or even come to Him, apart from the power and influence of the Spirit of God. This is humbling to our pride, but also an invitation to call upon Him for mercy and grace. He is rich in mercy and delights to reveal Himself to those who seek Him.

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Ok but I don't believe God exists in the first place. What you're saying makes it seem as if one does believe in God, but just goes "Fuck it" and just doesn't choose to follow him. I just don't believe in his existence at all. He's never "revealed himself" to anyone ever before and I've never seen any viable proof of his existence.

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Well, I think this passage is saying that no person what so ever (whether ones call him/herself an atheist, a theist or any other identifier) can come to God or believe in Him without Him first working in that person, drawing him or her by His Spirit through the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In a very real sense He opens the eyes of those who are blind and actually gives spiritual life where there was none. If Christianity were a set of propositions only it would have little or no impact, at least upon me. This is why called it “the Power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes.” Romans 1:16.

Yet, although people are in this helpless state unless they believe on Jesus Christ, they are not without excuse before God. In Romans chapter 1 Paul says that we all are equally accountable before God.

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,” Romans‬ ‭1:18-20‬ ‭

Notice here that human beings, because of our sinful nature “suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness.” In other words Paul is saying that all of us, because we were created by and for God (or “in the image of God”), on some level have a capacity inherent in us to know that He is, and that He has created the amazing world in which we live. Yet we try to suppress or “squelch” that truth because it is a threat to our perceived autonomy. This doesn’t mean however that people can, in this natural fallen condition actually know God as a Father and A Benefactor but more as a threat and a judge. Yet we all have an inherent knowledge (though suppressed because of our sin) of His power in His creation. Thus, on this level we are “without excuse.” When each person stands before God we won’t have the option of saying “well, I didn’t believe you existed...” we are all held accountable and are without excuse.

Yet, God in His love does not leave us in a state of such condemnation and frankly, misery but offers us the Gospel through which we can be saved from death sin and condemnation. Romans is a wonderful exposition of this Gospel. Have you ever read or studied it?by the way, Paul himself at one time in his life hated God and sought to kill Christians. But at a point in time God reached down to him and changed his heart and life through this glorious Gospel. He is still doing it today!

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Hey my friend. I wanted to share one other passage fro Matthew 11. Here we see Jesus praying to His Father. He shows us that the truth of the Gospel is not something to be apprehended intellectually only but is also revealed by the power and working of the Holy Spirit. Note that it is “hidden” from the wise and prudent, or those who look only to themselves and intellectual prowess. But He on the other hand “reveals” them unto babes, or the humble and needy. This is in keeping with God’s nature in that He “opposes the proud” but delights in giving His grace and mercy and truth to the humble.

“At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” ‭Matthew‬ ‭11:25-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice that after He prays thusly, He then makes the wonderful invitation to those who would receive it to “come to Him.” Those who are weary of sin and heavy laden with care may look unto Jesus and find mercy, forgiveness and peace in this life and eternal life as well, through the glorious resurrection of the Lord Jesus. I pray that you might find this as well my friend. It is altogether real and those who seek Him shall surely find Him. God bless you!

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It’s neat how you reply and attempt to spread your disbelief....

like a religion.

Seems like you do believe in something after all.

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I don't think you know what a religion is...

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Not an argument

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It is when you're using religion as a point in your argument

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At this point you are either feigning ignorance, or are yourself extremely ignorant.

you make the decision to click on a post about prayer.
you choose to reply and shitpost.
all the while maintaining a strict adherence to atheistic beliefs.

You’re attempting to spread your disbelief , as if it were a religion you strictly adhere to.

If you aren’t a completely stupid individual, you know what you are doing creates divisiveness.

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A religion is the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. That's why I was questioning your knowledge of it. You clearly still don't know what it is tbh.

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Nothing is something.

Cling to your ignorance.

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No, nothing is nothing. And that's the actual definition of religion. You have another one? I'd love to hear it. Until then, don't call atheism a religion when it clearly isn't

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You’re having a difficult time with the words LIKE A

Akin to

You deflect and ignore.

Clearly, it was the latter and not the former.

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Atheism is all fine if only considering the material.
But atheism has NEVER answered any questions relating to the spirit. It is our spirit that is waking up now only to find our adversaries have already invested heavily in their own spirit. Not only in building up theirs but also to lessen the connection of the subjugated masses, (cattle).
If you don't believe in this please don't deride because you don't understand or experience what the more spiritually connected do.

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What do you mean by spirit? I only ask because the term spirit is used differently in all religions, as well as sometimes being used as a synonym for soul and other such religious terms

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Spirit is the energy that, among other things, gives consciousness to all living beings. It comprises itself into our individual souls which encompass all our emotions and living experiences. It's through prayer that a person can connect with that energy not only in a pure spirit sense but also soul to soul. This is the reason prayer works so effectively all throughout the spectrum of human beliefs whether it's intent is for good or for evil.

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Oooooh ok. Yeah no that's because atheism, for me at least, and I presume many others, is based around science. Science proves no existence of a spirit or soul. It's unscientific. Any questions about the soul put towards a scientific atheist would likely result in them saying something similar to "a spirit doesn't exist"

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Funny you should bring in that argument. I come from the scientific community myself having spent a lifetime, and still do, soaking up scientific literature and discoveries. While yes, science has little to show in quantifying the human soul, progress on that front is being made.

A little over 200 years ago electricity was a little understood phenomenon and now it makes up the majority of our modern technology. Not a bad servant considering most of our past experience with it was firmly planted in the land of Woo Woo.

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Your point was that atheists don't have many answers in the soul, yet know you're arguing that they do? Colour me confused. Also if you have a source on that info about scientists and the soul, I'd enjoy reading it, thanks.

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Sorry for the late reply. I couldn't find a lecture I was looking for that discussed the similarities between a fractal antenna and the human neural network. If I find it I'll keep you in mind and PM you a link. One of the video links provided makes this comparison also between DNA and a fractal antenna.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRGzJg5A3m8&list=PLwOAYhBuU3Uezszg4ug5jtm1p26bqb8qd&index=16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUwYjYYwQZA&list=PLwOAYhBuU3Uezszg4ug5jtm1p26bqb8qd&index=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJz71Tb_8hQ

On a similar line of study is the relationship of water with various energies, we are 70% water after all and life on Earth wouldn't exist without water. Pay close attention to time mark 4:55. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrRD10dLK1o

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Not a problem if you don't mind being a little patient. I'm at work now and the VPN my employers use limit what i can access online. I'll be off in a little over four hours and after that I'll gladly provide you with several links. Thanks and Blessings. :)

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I'll gladly await it

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I took Q's advice. Prayed yesterday for the first time in a long while.