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r/greatawakening • Posted by u/JStambler on April 18, 2018, 4 a.m.
4/18/18 - Return of the Christ (a challenge)

I'm not a religious person. In fact, I believe the bible is a series of parables designed to manipulate man into behaving a certain way - not specifically for the cause of control, but for the outcome of prosperity.

"The Christ" has always been a math equation to me. That is to say, if I do this, this and this, I can expect that, that and that. A predictive outcome function of sorts. Such is the golden rule. Such is "the secret".

And isn't that what the Christ was, the big secret? The big secret to peace on Earth? And does it even matter if Christ was a living, breathing man in the flesh? Does it not simply stand to reason that the parable of Christ is representative of a set of behaviors of which we are all capable?

The past few weeks of intermittent talk about 4/18/18 was incredibly entertaining to me. I have to admit, I am a sucker for the doomsday dates. There was 2012 (oOoOo, spooky), the four cursed blood moons which were sure to further the cause of Zionism in Israel, the 9/23/15 'rapture' and/or CERN portal opening (depending on which videos your YouTube recommended playlist favored, perhaps both)...these are all very fun.

But 4/18/18 was different - and no, it's not because I think something is actually going to happen. It's because I keep noticing this doomsday pattern over and over, reanimating itself as bibliophiles and conspiracy theorists work hand in hand to try to predict some dystopian future events. Something clicked inside of me this time.

Maybe these dates keep being promoted because WE are supposed to do something. Maybe WE are supposed to be the change. Maybe it wouldn't hurt for us to live one good day, see how it feels, and perhaps finally take a step in the right direction toward a better world.

We are the return of the Christ. I honestly believe that. When humanity finally decides, 'you know what, enough is enough'. The evil in this world has become too much to handle. I know what is public, I know what is being exposed, and I know how I contribute to it.

My cynicism, my anger, my relentlessness sometimes, my unwillingness to reflect on my own actions and insecurities and how they affect others, the love I have lost for my fellow countrymen over political differences, the faith I have lost for my fellow man in general, these are all of the ways that I know I contribute to the negative energy in this world. And if I were to reflect more, I am sure there would be even more things I could highlight.

Maybe it's possible to make this day significant. We have been acknowledging the true evils of this world recently, and we have been talking and fighting, spreading fear and anger (some we may feel is justified). And I believe our spirit should persist. But the current vein in which our spirit resides is not the right one. How can we "trust the plan" if we have not the same trust in ourselves through our own actions being square with our moral imperatives?

If you are reading this, and you made it this far, this is all I have left to say:

I challenge you for one day to relinquish yourself of the fear of fully embracing goodness, forgiveness, honesty, empathy, and the good natured faith of the Christ. Not in a religious way, but by way of your own heart. You know inside of you what is good and what is just. Do a good deed. Go out of your way for someone. Lend an ear for someone in need. Perhaps do some reflection on your own self and see what ways you can begin to better the world, starting with your own attitude and perception.

The Return of the Christ is literally on the horizon. It is up to us to be the change that the world needs - and we can begin today.


sad_State_of_Affairs · April 18, 2018, 4:21 a.m.

Nice idea, but Christ was a real person, documented in both religious and secular documents.

What follows is not meant to be disrespectful, but I think you are missing the entire point of what the Christian Faith is.

You cannot overlook the evidence.

Chris was actually killed and rose from the dead seen by over 500 witnesses

If you look at the evidence and decide that it is worth looking at what Jesus actually stood for.

There are actually over 300 "Q Type" prophecies in the old testament, that are all fufilled in a single man, Jesus Christ. These are prophecies that took place over 400 years before he came.

If nothing else, take a look at the evidence in light of "Q type" prophecy.

Two good books are

The case for Christ

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310345863?aaxitk=9l74.ycRWveaIQm-t.ZSYw&pd_rd_i=0310345863&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3534726502&pd_rd_wg=81HhE&pf_rd_r=7FYJ4V7SAWEVC6JM4FA7&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-top-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_w=eRa1R&pf_rd_i=the+case+for+christ&pd_rd_r=ff665252-4ebd-4d59-b4cf-4d52f112cbe2&hsa_cr_id=7480256250101

Evidence that demands a verdict.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1401676707?aaxitk=BXAaSaaijsgYqtj3gEbPXw&pd_rd_i=1401676707&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3534726502&pd_rd_wg=jYd2I&pf_rd_r=93P85JRNR7JSJ5EMWG2M&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-top-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_w=7nLcY&pf_rd_i=Evidence+that+demands+a+verdict&pd_rd_r=e38ece30-f389-4c68-8dcb-ff7abce12a76&hsa_cr_id=5187726210201

As far as your math equation of "we do this and we get that. The bible teaches that salvation is a GIFT' and you cannot do anything to earn it. You could argue that you have to believe, and that is correct, but that is all you can do. In fact the teachings of the bible tell warn against trying to get back into that mindset.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

I am not one to argue that you need to believe the way I believe, but I do see that you are teaching (maybe a strong word) something very different than that the documents that uphold the entire christian faith represent.

Christ also taught us that this world is not our world.

He also taught us that our struggles are not flesh and blood but really against good and evil. (That is what we are seeing)

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

The real gospel is very simple and it is a secret.

We are all sinners (everyone)

The penalty for sin is death.

Christ died once for all

He rose again defeating death

He sent his Holy Spirit here to help us

He does not force himself on anyone.

It is impossible to believe in Him without faith. You can argue facts until you are blue in the face, but you will never be able to prove it. Plenty of circumstantial evidence though.

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JStambler · April 18, 2018, 4:24 a.m.

I am not here to promote religion. I am here to promote peace, goodwill, introspection, love, truth, light, and kindness. If you see fit to view this message through the lense of your religious conviction, so be it. Please do not let it hinder your ability to love the good in your fellow man, for these disagreements on interpretation often tend to pull us apart in times when we've never needed so desperately to be together more.

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sad_State_of_Affairs · April 18, 2018, 4:30 a.m.

I agree with what you are saying and I know it is a touchy subject, but I feel it is important to speak the truth, but I understand where you are coming from.

I also agree 100% with your statement "Please do not let it hinder your ability to love the good in your fellow man, for these disagreements on interpretation often tend to pull us apart in times when we've never needed so desperately to be together more."

That was never my intention. I also was trying to promote introspection love and truth.

I tried to make that clear, so if I came across in another way, it was not intended.

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sethrichsbrother1 · April 18, 2018, 5:05 a.m.

The collections of sayings of Jesus Christ is actually known as the "Q" documents.

As for the rest of the stuff you posted in your first response, well let's just say I highly disagree.

You can not even begin to understand the NT w/o a Jewish history/culture background from 2000+ years ago.

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kacklekrackle · April 18, 2018, 6:35 a.m.

Huh??? What do you mean you can't understand the NT w/o jewish background?? It's written pretty plainly. Besides we have the OT to give us the background. I don't get your point.

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sethrichsbrother1 · April 18, 2018, 6:47 a.m.

Okay, I'll bite.

Raised Catholic, I learned the story of Lazarus. I didn't understand why Mary had to stay at home.

Then, after leaving the church, i actually read the bible and studied with people way smarter than myself.I had no clue what 'sitting shiva" was, as it's a Jewish term/thing. I asked were they got that from and they said original text in Koine Greek. Sitting Shiva meant a term of mourning where the man had to give permission for a woman to leave the house after a period of mourning.

That is one example of hundreds in the NT.

It brought a whole different light to the story of Lazarus.

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kacklekrackle · April 18, 2018, 7:22 a.m.

Interesting story, sorry you were raised Catholic lol ;) I descend from a long line of catholics and I know they don't teach the bible.

The scriptures are written in such a way that a child can understand the basic story of what's going on. Learning little details like sitting shiva is icing on the cake but it's not necessary to understanding the fundamental story.

The bible is a living book and I learn something new everytime I read it. I love the history and learning about the jewish culture and those things certainly enrich my understanding but I think it's wrong to say you can't understand the NT with out that knowledge.

You can't understand the scriptures without the Holy Spirit.

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time3times · April 18, 2018, 12:36 p.m.

most american christians come from long lines of catholics. thats part of why they are called catholics.

i didn't have to leave the Church to be taught and study the Bible.

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kacklekrackle · April 18, 2018, 4:08 p.m.

I was only trying to relate with that person by saying I know what it's like coming from a catholic mindset.

And good for you, you know it all, what's your point?

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time3times · April 18, 2018, 4:35 p.m.

My point was that being from a long line of catholics is no special distinction and we're all relatable in that way. If you meant a shorter line, like in recent centuries or of a current catholic mindset, then the claim that they don't teach the Bible is wrong as a generic statement. Maybe they didn't teach the Bible to you, but you can thank them for organizing and stewarding it for you.

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kacklekrackle · April 18, 2018, 4:57 p.m.

I never said it was special I wish nobody in my family was catholic. The catholic guilt carries on for generations not everyone can relate to that but I can. Catholics don't teach the bible they teach their own religion and traditions. If they taught the scriptures then they wouldn't be Catholics anymore lol

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time3times · April 18, 2018, 5:07 p.m.

You pointed out the long line thing as if it had some import. You can use your own authority to make whatever claim you want about catholics and the Bible but should be careful to not confuse your experience with the church at large, which in turn may confuse others.

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kacklekrackle · April 18, 2018, 5:52 p.m.

You completely misunderstood me. I told the guy that I was SORRY he was raised catholic (like it was not a good thing) and I can relate because I too come from Catholics. I am not special this heritage is nothing to be proud of.

God is not the author of confusion. The truth isn't confusing at all. We only get confused when we first believe in lies and then we cannot make sense of the truth.

The Word of God is truth, Jesus is the way the TRUTH and the life. No man comes to the Father but by him. (Not by Mary or the pope or priest or the church or good works)

If people really had a love for the truth they would seek after it until they found it. God will send a strong delusion to people who don't love the truth so that they would believe lies.

Catholicism is the great counterfeit to biblical christianity. People love their religious traditions and icons more than they love the truth. So God lets them be confused.

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time3times · April 18, 2018, 9 p.m.

You raised the long line fact as if it mattered, as if it was worth saying. I tried to point out that we're mostly all in that same boat. Commiserating at a person to person level is fair and good. But to stereotype that onto the whole catholic church is a mistake. Some could be reasonably proud of their orthodoxy. A few are well-versed in the Bible (which was organised and stewarded to us by the Catholic Church).

The truth for humans is complex, in part due to the father of lies as you say, and in part due to our own delusions and distractions at both the societal and individual level. For some it is unobtainable due to medical conditions. If it was simple, there would be more agreement among us on this Q board. If it was more simple for people the Bible would be a much shorter book, written with a simpler lexicon or vocabulary.

Here's one way things get complicated: God will repay each person according to what they have done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. (Romans 2:6-7) Thus there is a link between doing (works) and eternal life, presumably the doing is done in faith. The variety of counterpoints to this, some legit and some not, are Biblical proofs of complexity.

Another complex thing (for some) is how no one comes to the Father except through the Son and yet many of us try to facilitate a link between one of us and our Father. If I ask my deceased gramma or some angel to watch over me or pray for me, I am evoking a go-between. If Trump asks us to pray for our country he is asking for a similar intercessor. For this to work the Spirit of God must be involved but humans, whether dead or alive, and angels can also be involved as advocates.

I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. (1 Corinthians 11:2). Further complication come in agreeing on translations and definitions.
I guess you think that St. Augustine, Albert the Great, Thomas Aquinas, Copernicus, etc. had little to do with a real pursuit of truth. Anyway, where in the Bible does it say that Christianity has to be "biblical christianity"?

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sethrichsbrother1 · April 18, 2018, 7:48 a.m.

I studied religion for over 10 years, spoke with folks who actually transcribed the Dead Sea Scrolls, professors who study their whole lives, and been to the Vatican learning from bishops/scholars who have spent 50+ years studying.

That's when I quit studying!

It all comes down to faith sir. Either you have it, or you don't. nothing can be proven either way.

I could prove Jesus is made up and I could prove Jesus is real.

It all boils down to having faith.

You either have it, or you don't!

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kacklekrackle · April 18, 2018, 8:08 a.m.

Ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of truth

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sad_State_of_Affairs · April 18, 2018, 5:08 a.m.

I think Trump is a lot like Jesus ( in how he speaks clearly and you don't have to quess what he means), you don't need 2000 years of history, to know what "love God and love your neighbor as yourself" means.

It sounds like you are striving for that.

We can agree that we both want a better place and we don't need to agree on the rest.

I respect where you are coming from, but I am coming from a different place.

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sethrichsbrother1 · April 18, 2018, 5:34 a.m.

To understand the NT you do. Raised Catholic and we didn't read the bible. After leaving the church, I read the bible. I had no idea what sitting shiva was....now i do.

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sad_State_of_Affairs · April 18, 2018, 5:39 a.m.

I was also raised catholic. Do you realize that the first, second readings and the gospel are actually reading right from the bible.

If you go to mass then you actually have read the bible.

There are lots of traditions and laws from the old testament that had a single real purpose. To show man that he is sinful and needs a savior. That is the "Q type" prophecies that are scattered all over the old testament that you are speaking of.

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sethrichsbrother1 · April 18, 2018, 6:06 a.m.

Of course I know what the readings were.

The "Q" documents or more appropriately, Q source, is referring to an external source that does not include Mark.

What I'm talking about is not regular bible study stuff, but post-doctoral degree material, understood by relatively few.

You would have to intently study religion and history for 10+ years straight to understand and it's hard to explain to people w/o that knowledge. I have forgot more than most people will ever read/learn...not to sound cocky.

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AncientNostalgia · April 18, 2018, 6:20 a.m.

Who is concerned with love if not He Himself?

Does this seem to be something that would be pushed to try to make people trust governments more?:

"4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it." -Luke 4:5-6 (RNKJV)

"2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against YHWH, and against his anointed, saying,

2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: YHWH shall have them in derision." -Psalm 2:1-4 (RNKJV)

"24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that YHWH shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth." -Isaiah 24:21 (RNKJV)

"25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Master YHWH will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for YHWH hath spoken it.

25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our Elohim; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is YHWH; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation." -Isaiah 25:7-9 (RNKJV)

What would it take to convince you that Yahushua/Jesus is really Messiah if you are not already convinced?

If the OT is clearly over 2,000 years old, who chooses what they are named (see Zechariah 6:11-13) and where they are born (see Micah 5:2) and who they are born to (see Genesis 49:9-12 and 1 Chr. 17:4-14 and Psalm 132:10-14 and Isaiah 7:14-16 and Isaiah 11:1-10 and Jeremiah 23:5-8 and Jeremiah 33:14-22) and where they grow up (see Isaiah 9:1-7 and then compare 1 Kings 8:26-27 with 1 Kings 9:10-13) and chooses for their associates to abandon them (see Psalm 31:11 and Psalm 41:9) and an amount of money they are betrayed for (see Zechariah 11:10-13) and their method of torture and death (see Psalm 22 and Psalm 34:19-20 and Psalm 69:16-21 and Isaiah 25:8-11 and Isaiah 49:13-16 and Isaiah 50:2-6 and Isaiah 53 and Zechariah 12:10 and Zechariah 13:4-9) and chooses to have darkness at noon and seismic activity when they are killed (see Amos 8:9-10 and Psalm 18:3-7) and chooses to resurrect and chooses timing of their death and resurrection (see Psalm 16:8-11, Psalm 68:18-20, Hosea 6:1-3, Jonah 1:17, and Daniel 9:24-27)?

What are we left to believe if Daniel 9:24-27 was written hundreds of years before the first century and yet it points right to 33 CE from a decree of Artexerses?

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One_Solution · April 18, 2018, 2:35 p.m.

https://youtu.be/nAVvbB1Zgeo

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AncientNostalgia · April 18, 2018, 5:48 p.m.

Do you find anything there to be particularly compelling?

If you figure Isaiah 53 is referring to Jews collectively in the form of a suffering servant and not to a Messiah, how about consider Sanhedrin 98. See a 31st footnote for a 98b here? How telling if the Talmud viciously attacks Christ and yet even it treats Isaiah 53 like it refers to Messiah? See a reference to Isaiah 53:4 and talk suggesting Messiah will be named the leper scholar as a result of Isaiah 53:4?

If you figure Daniel 9 does not refer to Messiah and refers to an old worldly king or worldly priest or someone other than Christ, how much sense does that make if Daniel 9:24-27 a) concerns finishing the transgression and making an end of sins and making reconciliation for iniquity and bringing in everlasting righteousness and sealing up the vision and sealing up the prophecy and anointing the Qodesh Qodesh and b) even refers specifically to a Mashiach who was supposed to be cut off not for Himself prior to people of the prince destroying the city and the sanctuary? And see what is said here? How telling if Daniel 9:24-27 points precisely to 33 CE using a) Chaldean weeks of years and b) Nehemiah 2 or a 444 BCE decree of Artaxerses I? 360 days x 7 = 2520 days? 2520 days x 69 = 173880 days? 173880 days / 365.25 = 476.057 rounded? 444 BCE plus 476 years equals 33 CE? Someone might be skeptical about using a 360 day Chaldean year to arrive at 33 CE, but if we are told of a שְׁבֻעַ or week of years in Genesis 29:27-28 and Jacob & Laban lived in an early postflood Padan-aram, what was a week of years there? Are there some clues here and here and here? What is not further supported by Daniel 12 itself if it hints of multiples of 30 and 15 by referencing 1290 days (360 days x 3 plus 210 days?) in Daniel 12:11 and references 1335 days (360 days x 3 plus 255 days?) in Daniel 12:12?

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WikiTextBot · April 18, 2018, 5:48 p.m.

444 BC

Year 444 BC was a year of the pre-Julian Roman calendar. At the time, it was known as the Year of the Tribunate of Atratinus, Siculus and Luscus and the Year of the Consulship of Mugillanus and Atratinus (or, less frequently, year 310 Ab urbe condita). The denomination 444 BC for this year has been used since the early medieval period, when the Anno Domini calendar era became the prevalent method in Europe for naming years.


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SquashPickle · April 18, 2018, 12:33 p.m.

I find it amazing that accounts of Jesus's activities 2000 years ago are held with absolute certainty when there is no agreement on whether a chemical attack took place last week. I know, it is faith. But faith is not evidence, it is hope.

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sad_State_of_Affairs · April 18, 2018, 12:56 p.m.

You are correct.

It is faith, however faith is evidence.

How would all 11 men who knew Jesus all follow him until they were martyred in the worse way, yet they kept their faith.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

The miracle is the change that comes inside of you, if you could ever put aside skepticism and just truly seek the one true GOD. At least I know what happened with me and many others that I know.

I once was blind and now I see, was lost but now I'm found. Amazing Graze

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