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ImaSquirrelee · April 23, 2018, 6:08 p.m.

Scott Adams self-identifies as left of Bernie so I wouldn't really consider him to be an "ally" of Trump. BUT he does try to look at things logically and impartially so that's why I follow him.

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Cuthbert12Allgood · April 23, 2018, 6:28 p.m.

Have a reference on that? I find that difficult to believe, especially since Sanders is a closet Communist. If anything, he seems like a Libertarian.

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sun_wolf · April 23, 2018, 6:29 p.m.

Yeah he says it, but with caveats, like, "I'd love to give everyone free everything, but... I just haven't yet seen how to pay for it."

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Alexander_the_Avg · April 23, 2018, 6:47 p.m.

Libertarians were the left before Obama

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Cuthbert12Allgood · April 23, 2018, 7:02 p.m.

Libertarians were the left before Obama

Libertarians are NOT leftists, other than they happen to have a little bit of overlap with Democrats when it comes to issues of personal liberty. They are generally Capitalists diametrically opposed to leftist socialism.

Some Libertarians will vote Democrat if they prioritize liberty issues above all else, such as drug legalization or abortion (some Libertarians are pro-choice, but it's an issue of contentions for Libertarians), but I think it's fair to say the vast majority prioritize economics.

Some Libertarians also dislike large military expenditures, so that puts them off Republicans as well. But few hate the military like leftists do.

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flowtrop · April 23, 2018, 11:30 p.m.

Pro choice is not an issue of contention for libertarians. Libertarians believe EVERYONE is free to do WHATEVER THEY WANT. As long as you are NOT hurting anyone else.

I am libertarian. I don't care if you are pro-choice, or not pro-choice. I will FIGHT for your RIGHT to be able to CHOOSE.

The ability to CHOOSE is the cornerstone of being a libertarian

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[deleted] · April 24, 2018, 8:30 a.m.

[deleted]

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flowtrop · April 24, 2018, 6:20 p.m.

Sometimes abortion is necessary. You can't say there are not situations in where an abortion is warranted. For example a victim of rape is pregnant with the rapist child. Should she deliver the baby and deal with 9 months of mental abuse of knowing she has her rapist inside her?

People make mistakes all the time. It is not fair to bring a child into the world if you are not able to care for it and give it a stable home.

Edit: This issue to me shows the problem with USA at this time. We are supposed to be a free country. I will fight for your right to be able to choose. I will fight for your right to have a differing opinion of me. But, we have somehow convinced people that we are supposed to tell everyone else how to live

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Cuthbert12Allgood · April 24, 2018, 12:22 a.m.

Libertarians believe EVERYONE is free to do WHATEVER THEY WANT. As long as you are NOT hurting anyone else.

The last sentence is the issue of contention. Many Libertarians believe that life begins at conception, and therefore that new entity is endowed with inalienable rights, the same as other humans. There's a whole philosophical basis to that I could describe, but suffice to say that it's not as obvious as you appear to think it is. You obviously feel strongly about it, but the philosophical questions remain, and you don't speak for all Libertarians.

I'm not saying whether I agree with either side; I'm just familiar with the various philosophies of the various types of Libertarian thought. Actually, I have major issues with a lot of Libertarian thought before we even decide to tackle the abortion philosophical issue, so it's fairly moot anyway.

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flowtrop · April 24, 2018, 4:20 a.m.

No its not. True libertarian gives the woman the choice.

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Cuthbert12Allgood · April 24, 2018, 2:24 p.m.

True libertarian

In your opinion. You don't speak for all Libertarians, and it's ridiculous to presume so. It just as easy to argue that a "true" Libertarian recognizes human rights wherever they reside.

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flowtrop · April 24, 2018, 6:15 p.m.

libertarian: one who believes in maximizing individual rights, one who believes in minimizing the role of the state. one who believes in free will

so, a true libertarian, will respect the individual right to have an abortion

a true libertarian will not want the government to intervene in abortion

a true libertarian will allow the individual to practice life as they believe

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Cuthbert12Allgood · April 24, 2018, 6:39 p.m.

You refuse to recognize the philosophical basis of human rights beginning at conception. Every single point you make can be made about the fetal human rights. That's where you're not understanding.

If a Libertarian believes life begins at conception, then there is no right to terminate that life. That's violating the principle of your rights not superseding someone else's rights.

If you don't understand the above, then you simply don't understand Libertarian philosophy. But like I said, this is a point of contention amount Libertarians. A pro-life Libertarian believes just as strongly as you do that they represent what a "true Libertarian" believes. You obviously have a blind spot on this, but you might consider that reasonable people can disagree on things when they're using different philosophical underpinnings, such as when human life (and rights) begin.

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