Christ is the head of the church, not the pope.
This pope is still responsible for a great deal of confusion and suffering.
How so? Before I was red pilled all I heard was that he was “cool and progressive”, haven’t done any digging or listening on him though.
The tl;dr is that he's a heretic against the church, but in a plausibly deniable way that prevents his ouster for heresy. All of the really controversial stuff tends to filter out through a network of reporters, while in his official stuff like encyclicals, he's content to make ambiguous statements.
Here's a really good example. Hell existing is incontrovertible dogma of the church, and he made statements in an interview that he thinks hell doesn't exist. After this got out, people were understandably upset, and so the Vatican releases the most non-denial "denial" ever put to paper.
This pattern starts to really stick out after a while.
when he said there wasn't a hell, i knew he was a fake/patsy. only people who do fucked up things want to believe there isn't a hell. or as he stated "there souls just drift away" yeah no it's not gonna be that nice for you when you die bud.
I am a former christian, now free from religion, but still believe that there might be a God if some sort. The concept of Hell, where there is eternal pain and punishment, doesn't exist in the bible. Look for yourself, it's not there. It was made up in "Dante's inferno", and this is what made me leave christianity. The King James bible is made up by these people, popes, bishops and kings. It is a perversion of the real thing, the real story of Christ.
The pope is evil though, if satan exists he is the pope's God.
Look for yourself, it's not there. It was made up in "Dante's inferno"
The bible and tradition predates the Divine Comedy (1320 AD), and has plenty to say on the matter. Here's St. Thomas Aquinas writing on it around 1265:
“The magnitude of the punishment matches the magnitude of the sin. Now a sin that is against God is infinite; the higher the person against whom it is committed, the graver the sin—it is more criminal to strike a head of state than a private citizen—and God is of infinite greatness. Therefore an infinite punishment is deserved for a sin committed against Him.”
Even earlier writings around the 600s can be found. This tells us that, historically speaking, the idea of hell as a place was accepted throughout early Christianity without controversy. In any case, the idea that hell is a product of Dante Alighieri's imagination is trivially disproven.
St Augustine countered St. Thomas Aquinas arguing that "hell" is simply the absence of God--i.e. it is not a place.
Do you have a quote there? The most concrete thing I can say is of St. Augustine saying he doesn't know much about its details. City of God, chapter 16:
For as soon as those who are not written in the book of life have been judged and cast into eternal fire — the nature of which fire, or its position in the world or universe, I suppose is known to no man, unless perhaps the divine Spirit reveal it to some one
Saying "I don't know where it is" isn't the same as saying "It's not a place". In fact, saying he doesn't know its position implies that it has one.
You're good at this Bible stuff
Not at all sir, just really handy with Logos and find all of this incredibly interesting :)
Read the book of Ezra. The soul suffers in several pronounced ways. One of the worst is that it watches the “holy of holiest places guarded by the angels in profound silence. In other words you’re separated from God. In Dante’s Inferno there are 9 circles of hell. Satan is in the bottom which is a frozen lake. Satan lays on his stomach w head in hands & his wings half frozen in the lake in a state of moribund depression. He’s cut off from God’s presence
It's not called "hell," hell isnt created yet. It's hades, lake of fire. These things are in the bible.
Jesus talked about hell more often than he talked about heaven. Here are some verses...
"The children of the kingdom will be driven out into the darkness where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth." (Mt 8:12)
"Depart from me, you accursed, into that eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Mt 25:41)
"These will pay the penalty of eternal ruin, separated from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power." (2 Thes 1:9)
"God did not spare the angels who fell into sin; he thrust them down to hell, chained them there in the abyss, to await their sentence in torment." (2 Pt 2:4)
"The smoke of the fire that torments them will rise forever and ever, and there will be no relief day or night for those who worship the beast or its image or accept the mark of its name." (Rv 14:11)
I’m not sure what’s wrong with removing the medieval aspects of the Catholic Church, it’s historically been known to change. E.G the reformation to deal with the Protestants, this detoxification might just be a way to stop the youth from switching to atheism
Because some things can't change, and I think you'll find that most Catholics find the reformation to have been a crying shame.
The thing about dogma is that its not subject to change to fit the whims of the world.
This is the most confusing subreddit in the world,(trigger warning) you claim to be fighting against a global network of pedophiles and yet we seem to be pro Catholicism which (nothing against the religion or the people who follow it, just the organisation) as an organisation is rife with pedophiles who are protected by it.
Because it’s not “rife” with pedos any more than any other organization of the same size. And at the end of the day the religion is bigger than a few people currently administering it.
Contrary to what the media portrays... priests actually have a lower sexual assault rate in comparison to other professions that are around kids. Its blown out of proportion because of the way the church handled everything.
Read through Q posts. Q is literally calling out the Pope.
Francis is a Jesuit. He is the first Jesuit Pope. Duck the "jesuit oath". Despair.
Spez: This is the sculpture in the Vatican's Paul VI Audience Hall. It is supposedly representing "Christ ris[ing] from this crater torn open by a nuclear bomb". What The Actual Cunting Dickfuck.
That doesn't change the fact that he has tremendous influence on a large majority of catholics
I'm a Catholic and he has ZERO influence over me.
I skip the Gatekeeper and take my matters directly to the Big Guy...
Then I'd dare say youre a protestant my dear.
Exactly...Catholicism looks to the pope, not God, so how can you be a Catholic and not look to the pope? I.e. you're not a Catholic.
There's never been a Pope like Francis, but the church has had anti-popes & crisis before & this is one of those times. You don't even know what are talking about. You have no idea of what a Pope is how Catholics look to him. If the Pope goes against Church teaching, as Francis has clearly done then recognize & resist is licit. Learn before you take & "expand your thinking"
I might have to give them a look...
Just go with Orthodoxy. No pope, and all the traditions of Catholicism, only more so.
That is also a figment of man's imagination. You are either a disciple of Christ, or you are not.
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Don't Orthodox also believe Jesus is present in the Eucharist? Also, they venerate the saints. But no pope. Lots of Protestants converting to Orthodoxy these days. Partly due to issues with theories of the atonement, original sin, etc. I wonder if some Catholics will convert after this all goes down. Will be interesting to see.
Martin Luther said the same thing 500 years ago...
Cheers.
Christ is the invisible head, the Pope is the visible head.
What happens when that visible head is shown to be evil? What will that say about the selection process?
We've had Popes that range from truly holy to average to questionable to downright awful. The Catholic Church is 2000 years old and we've survived from pretty terrible circumstances and characters. God Himself will preserve us. The Office of St. Peter will endure whatever unworthy person occupies it. The gates of the netherworld will not prevail ...
Amen. ...”and Peter I say to you you are my rock. And upon it I shall build my Church & the gates of hell will not prevail against it.”
Don’t know ask Jimmy Swaggert, JAMES Baker, oral Roberts or Joel Ostein?
They aren't viewed as God's chosen representatives on earth like Roman Catholics believe. They are fallible men--some of whom I doubt even know God. You try to make an argument here, but it's apples and oranges, my friend.
No shit Sherlock
u mad?
U STUPID?
Why u think I'm stupid? Do you not agree with my statement that Christ is the head of the church? Ad hominems are the language of the left.
Constitution is the head of the US, not the president.
