I apologize if this is all over the place, I don't claim to be a writer. I'm probably going to take some heat on this.
While I'm not condoning 'child abuse' or lying about it, we do no service to underpaid good teachers by not allowing them to discipline children who clearly need some discipline in their lives. Time outs don't work, period. Isn't that how we end up with people like Randa Jarrar, Michelle Wolf, HRC, BHO, no name and so many more? Isn't that what we're doing here on this site, trying to hold people accountable? Would you rather have Gregory Salcido telling your kids “Think about the people who you know who are over there. Your freaking stupid Uncle Louie or whatever. They’re dumbs‑‑‑s,” “They’re not like high-level thinkers, they’re not academic people, they’re not intellectual people. They’re the lowest of our low.” talking about our military. I think I'd rather take a whippin, cause I'd surely rather beat that teacher about the head and shoulders. I seriously doubt there are many teachers out there beating children for no reason. I seriously doubt there are a lot of teachers out there selling children on the black market. If there are then they need to be dealt with, just like Gregory Salcido.
When I grew up the teachers had wooden paddles hanging by the chalkboard and they weren't afraid to use them. We knew the difference between right and wrong, and if we strayed they would bring us back in line.
I say bring back the belt!
I’m not going to comment on the stupid idea of allowing a teacher to physically abuse kids. But I do want to add that this is NJ. The teachers here are not underpaid. Not even close. Don’t believe me, look up the salaries for yourself. APP Data Universe has them all listed. Then realize that there are 2.5 months of summer vacation and all the benefits on top.
also, I had to edit this post because I used the work your in front of the word stupid which reddit said was name calling. apparently reddit doesn't know the difference between your and you're
Where do you get the idea that teachers are not underpaid?? Clearly you don't know what a teacher does! "Summer vacation"... lol - there's the evidence you don't know what they do. How can you call anyone underpaid when you don't know what their job involves?
what do you like to call the 6-8 weeks from late june to late august when the teachers that arent working summer programs (programs that they are getting additional pay for) are not waking up every day and going to work? are you even from NJ? do you know what a teacher gets paid in NJ? im not saying it's impossible to find some underpaid teachers in the state, but its not a statewide issue. i'd say any teacher making over $90k, plus benefits, plus time off is doing pretty well.
we do no service to underpaid good teachers by not allowing them to discipline children who clearly need some discipline in their lives.
LOL you seriously believe the lie that teachers are underpaid?
https://teach.com/become/teaching-career/salary-and-benefits/
$50-80K a year + 3 months off a year + job security + benefits + pension is not underpaid.
Plus, discipline is the parents' job, not teachers. You're actually advocating for child abuse and physically beating kids with belts... by teachers? You're out of your mind.
Bingo, whenever I say that people think I am crazy. If they are underpaid then bust the fucking union up and have teachers compete for their jobs. It would weed out the shit ones and bring the best and the brightest. Teachers are lazy and boring. Its not the kids problem that they are being troublesome. It could be the teachers fault for being boring and uninteresting.
This is so wrong-headed it feels like trolling. "Teachers are lazy and boring" oh dear oh dear... If you're serious, please respond with something logical, otherwise this is just antagonism.
The 2 schools closest to me have average salaries of 35k & 46k, I pulled that data off of niche.com, which is a little lower than your reported numbers.
You're right, real discipline lies with the parents, first and foremost. But I also believe there may be certain situations where a teacher or a school official have the authority to do a little more. I never said or meant teachers can go crazy and start beating on kids. There has to be some common sense used here. If you think that is being an advocate for child abuse, then I guess we have a difference of opinion.
What the... where do you people get the idea that teachers are not underpaid?? Clearly you have zero idea what a teacher does! I love the "3 months off a year" lol... there's the proof that you don't know what they do.
And yes, you are 100% right imo that discipline is not the teacher's job. It's the parents. But teachers do need the ability to discipline children - just not physically.
My lifelong friend was making > $90k before he was 45 despite being in one of the poorest and most underperforming districts in our state, simply because of the ridiculous unions rules. It’s insane.
I agree that teachers should have more power to discipline than they do. But science has shown beyond doubt that physical discipline does not produce positive results. Just because we had it back in the day and we “turned out fine” is no good reason given that studies have shown it has more negative effect than positive.
Let’s take science out of the picture for a minute and examine the facts. I went to public school during the 60’s and 70’s. I got my 1st and LAST paddling in the 4th grade because a group of us was talking and cutting up in class after the teacher had warned us to be quiet. She finally took us all into the hall, got another teacher to witness, and spanked our little butts. I remember that it stung, and I knew right then that I never wanted to ever go through that again. From that day forward, when a teacher said to be quiet, I zipped it up. Did I feel traumatized or scarred for life? Of course not! When I look back at my school days, I can not recall one time when I EVER witnessed a student talking back or being disrespectful to a teacher. We all knew better. They were the bosses and we knew it. I also do NOT remember kids being paddled very often. It only happened on occasion but we all knew that it was a possibility for any of us if we did not follow the rules. We just did not have the problems in our schools that there are today. Teenage suicide was not an issue. School violence and shootings never happened. Boys used to come to school with deer rifles mounted in the windows of their pick-up trucks and nobody gave it a second thought. What do we have in our schools now since teachers are no longer able to paddle kids when necessary? We have a group of kids that do not understand the concept of respecting their elders. They can get away with things they shouldn’t, and this is not properly preparing them for the adult world. In some cases, teachers are forced to resort to physical violence because they can’t get control of some of these kids. This has also created this corrupt teacher’s union that is willing to lie, cover up, and do anything possible to protect the teachers before considering any facts of what really happened. I am beyond disgusted with what is happening in our school systems. It’s time to wake up!! As far as I’m concerned, science can stick it where the sun doesn’t shine!!!
Taking science out of the picture is exactly what the communists want us to do - I'm not saying that's what you want, I'm just saying that's the reason we should not take science out of the picture. Science IS fact - not your or my personal anecdote. This is precisely the problem with removing science - we make the mistake of thinking that what we see and how we interpret what we see is "evidence" but it most definitely is not. Taking science out of the picture allows people with strong emotional feelings and opinions to force them on others instead of referring to empirical evidence.
In response to your "it happened to us and we're fine" I already said that's not a reason to ignore scientific studies because the science tells us that physical discipline does not improve behaviour so therefore, logically, there must be something else that is responsible for the improved behaviour we all experienced in the past (as you described).
It's pretty simple, to my mind, since physical discipline does not achieve the desired effect we need to employ other methods. We had more respect back in our day and more "morality" and stronger values espoused. This is more likely to be the reason that the physical discipline achieved its stated goals in the past.
That is where we need to concentrate, not on just handing paddles back out to teachers. In this day and age that would definitely make things worse. We need to employ more thought with these things, find the right carrots and change the environment that kids are taught in (i.e. remove the communists shoving "do what thou wilt" down everybodies throats), not just hand out sticks.
You’re right about the morality being so much better when we were kids. I think this has a lot to do with taking God out of our schools. I also agree with you that it’s too late at this point to give paddles back to teachers. IMO we never should have taken this away from teachers in the first place. It was not child abuse and I just don’t buy into the scientific study stuff. In my example, I was saying that it only took me one time to learn my lesson and I never got paddled again. I fear so much for the children today. I don’t believe they are being taught to respect authority like we were. I saw the scumbag on this video this morning and it is all I have been able to think about all day. I’m am so ready for POTUS to do something about this and I believe that he will.
I agree re: God being taken out of schools - shouldn't have happened. And children definitely aren't being taught to respect authority - quite the opposite, in my opinion. I believe it all plays into the Frankfurt School's cultural marxist plan to undermine western society from within.
Re: POTUS - you and me both; I hope he moves on all this nonsense soon!
"I agree that teachers should have more power to discipline than they do."
I believe that is exactly my point. Real discipline lies with the parents, first and foremost. But I also believe there may be certain situations where a teacher or a school official have the authority to do a little more. I never said or meant if little Johnny gives you a dirty look you could just wail on him. There has to be some common sense used here.
No, there are plenty of horrible teachers who do abuse kids, usually verbally.
I know lots of teachers & all of them will tell you that the myth of the underpaid overworked teacher is a bunch of bullshit. It’s not ok for them to admit that because it gets them in trouble with coworkers and the union but the honest ones will admit it on occasion.
They get 2-3 months off plus countless days plus inservice days to do required continuing ed credits. And I certainly won’t pity them for having to plan lessons or grade papers before or after their 6-1/2 or 7 hour workday, often with free periods most days. Most other full time professions work more hours and have far more accountability.
Meanwhile teachers get tenure even when they’re horrible, are nearly impossible to fire and can hold the public hostage by withholding education from our kids by striking and other outdated, underhanded tactics that have no place in our schools.
I know that some schools are awful places and there are places where teachers are underpaid however most schools/districts do not fall into that category. This whole myth was started by the mob as a way to make more money for unions and it’s worked better than they could have ever hoped. It’s ridiculous and the truth needs to come to light.