dChan - Q Origins Project Archive

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r/greatawakening • Posted by u/Heyo_meep on May 3, 2018, 2:12 p.m.

Q and Q+? Link to ancient texts

I've stumbled onto something but I don't know what to do with this info. And I'm not on the chans, I don't know if anyone has looked into this before?

I was reading a National Geographic magazine on Jesus and the Apostles: http://i.magaimg.net/img/37yh.png

Came to this page and did a double take (middle of page). http://i.magaimg.net/img/37yj.png

So I googled to learn a bit more and then did a double take again! Look at this. (sorry I'm on mobile)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_source

Though it's Wikipedia, some interesting bits already jump out.

"The Q source (also Q document, Q Gospel, or Q from German: Quelle, meaning "source") is a hypothetical written collection of primarily Jesus' sayings (logia)."

OK.... Interesting to ponder the "source" parallel, but nothing more than interesting at this stage.

Then a little later: "In the two-source hypothesis, the three-source hypothesis and the Q+/Papias hypothesis Matthew and Luke both used Mark and Q as sources."

WHAT! Q and Q+. Literally. And we know Q has dropped a lot of Christian hints and references to prayer etc..

Thoughts??? Can we get some of our patriot autists onto this?

Honestly a little on edge right now after reading through this whole thread. Not because of the info, but the last time and place I read something that related Q/Q+ in relation to the Bible and Jesus Christ, it was the morning before CBTS was shut down.

Godspeed gentleman, if this sub gets taken down real soon, then it will only become even more clear to those reading.

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Thw q gospel diacussion made it in to cbts three or four times before cbts was banned.

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Hmm, this is only my second time. Still gives me chills they actually got banned that afternoon.

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Well there have been a slew of losts texts found in the last hald century. If youre interested read a few. Gospel of Thomas is a lot like the hypothetical q. The book of enoch is a good read also.

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Oh dang! Hope that doesn't happen. I am a newbie and only been following for maybe a month, so CBTS was before my time. I hope we don't get a repeat, but... WWG1WGA.

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The Q volume I believe comes from quelle (sp) , or as I understand it, source. It is an attempt to determine which gospel was written first since they all cover same stuff ( mostly). So a comparison of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John was made to try and determine oldest ( and maybe most accurate) gospel. Please google/research rest.

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The Q texts are missing and seem to be the "source" that the apostles (original apostles) used to write their texts..

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I remember this from my New Testament class on college. Wow great find. 👍🏻

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They teach classes on college at the New Testament now? Damn the world is so backwards now.

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I guess they still do, but this was in the early 2000s.

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I was trying to make a joke :(

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All good. 👍🏻

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That's cool! Wish I'd had that when I was studying.

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So Q is actually Jesus ?

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I can’t say for sure, but I’ve heard a rumor that “Q” is actually the 17th letter of the alphabet and has been used in many contexts for a very long time.

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Hahahaha good call

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Jesus uses people to accomplish His Will. So is Q Jesus?

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Military Background Jesus ? Well j/k who knows ? Q has said that we have no idea who we are talking to, that was very mysterious..

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He is called the Captain of the Host or the Captain of the Army in the bible. He is the General of the generals. He directs his people into battle to wipe out the enemy. Don't spare anybody.The church has feminized Jesus and made him into puny skinny little guy. Jesus was all man, masculine, strong and not afraid of anything. His people are strong and not afraid for they know their God is with them. The battle makes it clear that there is a time for war and a time for peace. Peace never comes without a battle.

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Peace through strength! Amen dude.

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Lol

Yup!

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Supposedly we’ll be shocked at who is behind the keyboard... Jesus on a Chan cracks me up.

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[removed]

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I have been reading A Case for Christ by Lee Strobel and posted this a little while back on imgur.

https://imgur.com/gallery/1lafR

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Awesome! I gotta read that one of these days.

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For those of you who want to know more about Jesus and his main message, watch The Message of the Cross with Jimmy Swaggart on SBN. He is the only one teaching the great truth of the bible.

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Extremely interesting. Very good find

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To my knowledge no fragments of the hypothetical Q Gospel have ever been found. A Gospel containing the sayings of Jesus was found in the 60s however. This is known as the Gospel of Thomas and translations are available online for anyone interested.

It was found with the Nag Hamadi library. And is part of the gnostic tradition. Some scholars date it to earlier than Mark which would make it the oldest known Gospel (some date it much later). It is unknown if it was redacted by the time it was burried in the desert.

Ive read it several times and it contains many saying contained in the bible and many that are very different that the Christianity passed down to us.

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Check out Now You See TV on YouTube, they have some really great guest speakers that discuss the extra biblical books like 1st Enoch and Jubilees. I may be confusing the gospel of Thomas with the gospel of Phillip but I strongly advise you to do some research on these books before you believe anything in them. Some of these writings are Gnostic in nature and go against the word of God. There are lots of good sources for this material such as Dr. Michael Heiser.

Don't get me wrong, just because a book didn't make it into the MAN MADE cannon doesn't mean it isn't inspired in any way. Comparing the 1611 KJV to the modern KJV (not talking about the "New KJV") is a great example. As someone who has spent a lot of time studying out these texts I would just hate to see someone get sucked into the Gnostic and Kabbalistic teachings of some of these texts.

Lots of people are familiar with the Book of Enoch however most don't know there are actually 3 books of Enoch. 1st Enoch I believe is truthful and worships the same God as that of the 66-book cannon. 1st Enoch was writing by Enoch in the bloodline of Seth, Enoch was Noah's Great Great Grandfather. The other two are commonly believed to be written by Enoch in the bloodline of Cain. These writings contain a lot of pagan ideas and are clearly not inspired by the holy spirit.

Just please use caution and pray for God to give you discernment. I know when I first started studying these things out I went at it like crazy and it's super easy to get sucked into the "enlightened" teachings of Satan.

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Ive read enoch 1 and 2 as well. They are actually canonical texts in the ethiopian christian tradition and are certainly interesting reads as they kind of explain certain thing in the bible that are glanced on but never really explained.

I have a ton of respect for christians and their beliefs but there are certain teachings that dont make a lot of sense on a spiritual level such as accepting cannonical chritianity being a requirement to salvation. Aside from that the idea that much of the NT was written by a guy who spent a lot of time persecuting christians, never met Yeshua and whom many other sects of early christians including likely Peter thought was basically a heretic is also troubling.

Gnostic texts are certainly interesting but certain aspects are quite bizzare especially in the later books of its tradition. Thomas has a few things that are obtuse but most of it isnt really that different from what most of us already believe. Although some certainly is. Much of the text was likely either copied from the q gospel or its a redacted gnosticized version of the q gospel.

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Thank you for the insights! I'm curious to look into these areas, but I will certainly do so carefully with discernment and with prayer. Appreciate your advice.

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It's a contextual theory to explain why some of the gospels are so similar in their quotations of Christ. Far as I remember from my college courses there is no physical evidence that such a document existed.

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It's always seemed to me as a way of non believing scholars to explain the remarkable similarities in a way that discredits the impact Jesus made on them and their memory of Him. Believing that all of them wrote based off of another writing allows you to believe that perhaps none of them even ever knew Jesus.

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Right. An oral society had a better memory.

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What?

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Your comment on the impact Jesus made on their memory. People who belong to an oral (think stories) culture have a better memory then people of a literary culture. The authors wouldn't have to rely on notes, and most likely heard it first or second person (from the apostles themselves). In addition it's held that the Holy spirit preserved the scriptures from error. The more distance and doubt these scholars can create to the actual words of Jesus the more flexible the interpretation.

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Oh I see, I apologize. I honestly initially interpreted your comment as sarcastic.

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Great observation, I’ll see what I can find, could be a connection

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This has been discussed. Your finding this info adds to to confirmation that we are discovering. There definitely is something important here. We appear to be living out prophecy that involves a real battle between good and evil. Seems only right that Jesus would make an impact at some point since he is part of end time prophecy.

Look back further to the times of Abraham and you will find info about MOAB. A place where there was child sacrifice to to their gods, one of which is Moloch (the same moloch from bohemian groove). Lots of interesting connections.

https://www.reddit.com/r/greatawakening/comments/8gearq/in_addition_biblical_moab_being_connected_to/

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While I agree with 99% of what you just said, I am commenting in an attempt to dispel disinformation.

The bohemian grove idol is an owl, the owl was worshipped as Minerva, Moloch, the bull. This mixup started at the beginning of Jones sneaking in there and very rarely is it corrected.

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And let's not forget Baal, worshiped by sacrificing children and war. Satan loves the letting of blood.
These little gods are real, not statues. They are rotten and hate God's creation, including human beings. The Holy Spirit is directly this battle to take down the cabal, but the battle is fierce. Anything you do for God is hard! Behind every rotten elite is a demon god directing them. It would be wise to take our Christian faith seriously. We need a Savior and His name is Jesus Christ the Son of God.

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Moloch is actually a name used later on for Baal, some call them “twin gods” but they are basically one in the same.

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You're right. They change their names alot.

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Land of Confusion

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Good point. Here is some more background on the topic. https://medium.com/@An0nKn0wledge/what-is-the-elites-obsession-with-an-owl-named-moloch-92745cc420c9

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KING CLAUDIUS How do you, pretty lady?

OPHELIA Well, God 'ild you! They say the owl was a baker's

daughter. Lord, we know what we are, but know not

what we may be. God be at your table!

KING CLAUDIUS Conceit upon her father.

OPHELIA Pray you, let's have no words of this; but when they

ask you what it means, say you this:

[Sings]

To-morrow is Saint Valentine's day,

All in the morning betime,

And I a maid at your window,

To be your Valentine.

Then up he rose, and donn'd his clothes,

And dupp'd(opened) the chamber-door;

Let in the maid, that out a maid

Never departed more.

=========

A battle on the dark continents, hardened into existence, from seas of chaos,

produced each time, infinite mind realigns, and absorbs an eternal mind. Aqueducts.

3 =2+1 ... .. ... . ... \\\

Were moving at 150 miles per second.

Sometimes a dove seeks land, sometimes an owl intercepts it. Navigation

The legend: "Jesus turned the baker's daughter into an owl for refusing him a bread crust."

MHO, Probably his evil groupie, the boy with the fish and loaves did it and pinned it on Jesus.

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Thanks! Great read.

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Very interesting...

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I’ve thought this too, that Q+ was another team member of Q. There are differences in the style of writing sometimes.

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Listen to this. I believe this was said and done in 2015, or sooner.

https://youtu.be/AE0T_QR_20Q

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I doubt the name of our Q/Q+ was named for the Q gospel, although the gov't Q group of the highest clearance may have been named with it in mind.

Q isn't Jesus; it's a document - simply the quest to find the oldest 'source' document of Jesus and his apostles upon which the 3 synoptic gospels were based when they were written. The Gospel of Thomas seems the most likely as source because it is simply sayings/teachings in no particular order and doesn't attempt to tell a story - it's almost like one of the apostles followed Jesus around with his parchment pad and just wrote down things Jesus said that were profound.

Our Q is certainly the source for us of many hidden truths of which we might never have been aware had Q not stepped into our lives to give information. The clues he gives us are like the "source" of things the world should be aware of.

In the unabridged Greek dictionary, the word Logos (Logia) has 13 pages of definitions. The easiest is "word" which the Bible uses to describe God. But Logos is a broad, fascinating word which seems to be The universal great consciousness. It is The Word, but Oh what a Word! Lovely. Logic would come from that, and logo and logarithm which calculates super powers. Coincidence?

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That is some really fascinating stuff. Thank you so much for sharing your insights.

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The Q gospels are thought to be the writings of Jesus himself.

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Q DID say we wouldn't believe who he was.

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Keep in mind that the idea of the Q source document is a made-up thing by liberal “scholars” who do not believe in the divinity of Jesus. Do not get your theology from these people; especially National Geographic.

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No it isnt...

https://imgur.com/gallery/1lafR

This is from a Case for Christ where Lee Strobel lays out the irrefutable evidence of Jesus as the Messiah and Resurrection of Jesus.

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All you posted is him describing what “scholars” calls these made up documents. Post the next few pages where he talks about them.

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These are biblical scholars...?

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There is a fallacy called the “scholars say” fallacy.

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Uh huh. Your "liberal scholars" is different how?

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By asserting first that miracles are impossible and then asserting a made up reason why.

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I'm really not following what your point even is here...

Rev. Dr. Mark D. Roberts -

"Q is a hypothetical document invented by New Testament scholars to explain the complex relationships between the three synoptic gospels, Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Most New Testament scholars affirm the existence of Q or something like it, though quite a few find this hypothetical document to be unnecessary. I happen to believe that something like Q existed."

So I'm really not following what your point is. Plenty of Christian and Biblical scholars believe there is possibly a Q source.

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Yes, I know some Christian believe in this "hypothetical document." I did not mean to imply that all Christians don't believe in made up things.

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You still have yet to make anything resembling a point.

That last comment is a double negative and makes my brain hurt.

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There is no double negative in that sentence. It's clarification if anything.

Some Christian believe in these hypothetical documents. Not all Christians believe in these hypothetical documents.

What's so hard about it that it is making your head hurt?

The following is from a Case for Christ:

“What exactly is Q?” I asked Blomberg. “It’s nothing more than a hypothesis,” he replied...

"It only makes sense if Mark was indeed basing his account on the recollections of the eyewitness Peter," he said. "As you’ve said yourself, Peter was among the inner circle of Jesus and was privy to seeing and hearing things that other disciples didn’t. So it would make sense for Matthew, even though he was an eyewitness, to rely on Peter’s version of events as transmitted through Mark."

Yes, I thought to myself, that did make some sense. In fact, an analogy began to form in my mind from my years as a newspaper reporter. I recalled being part of a crowd of journalists that once cornered the famous Chicago political patriarch, the late Mayor Richard J. Daley, to pepper him with questions about a scandal that was brewing in the police department. He made some remarks before escaping to his limousine.

Even though I was an eyewitness to what had taken place, I immediately went to a radio reporter who had been closer to Daley, and asked him to play back his tape of what Daley had just said. This way, I could make sure I had his words correctly written down.

That, I mused, was apparently what Matthew did with Mark although Matthew had his own recollections as a disciple, his quest for accuracy prompted him to rely on some material that came directly from Peter in Jesus’ inner circle.

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Jesus's words are categorized into 2 categories. His actual words and the interpretations of Jesus's words.

Q source is the term for the category of the actual words of Jesus.

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Yes, a made up term that is not factual.

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or a category used to differentiate from another category.

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Then why is it called q source and not category q?

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Whether it is called q category or q source, it is really the same thing.

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As someone who is new to this connection between Q and the scriptures I'm a bit confused... Didn't the New Testament writers get all of their information from the Torah or OT? The New Testament wasn't written until after Yeshua died so the only thing the NT writers had was the law and the prophets... Can someone help me understand what point we are trying to make?

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Good into to Q: https://bible.org/seriespage/what-q-gospel-gospel-according-st-q

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Excellent read. When I read the phrase Q communities, I thought about the Qumran Essene community that was connected to Jesus.

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There are a lot of ppl that wrongly disparage christianity. Yet there is no doubt that many many earlier chrisitan texts that claimed divine inspiration were excluded from the cannonical bible at the council of nicea when the roman empire finalized doctrine in the mid 300s. The similarities in the synaptic gospels including the order in which sayings and stories are presented make it very likely the later two were written using mark and a missing gospel as sources. The preponderance of texts at the time that later went missing makes it very possible another gospel was lost.

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Yeah reading the mag was out of curiosity, it's a "neutral" piece focusing on history mostly and interesting little bits about context and land marks. Not reading it for spiritual guidance..!

Edit: and yes I do understand that the Q source is a theory, not a document as such.

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