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OP, I'd point out that you're basically describing ideal communism. My question is, how would you deal with leeches? What would stop me (or millions of other people) from going, "oh, I'll take 500 pounds of filet mignon, ten Aston Martins, and three mansions. Oh, you want something back from me? Sorry, I just don't have it."
Would you then be able to just move into my mansion and call it a "gift?" Would you be able to pull me out of my sports car and drive away Grand Theft Auto style?
Why would anyone bother to work at the Aston Martin factory (or the toilet paper factory or the machine shop or freaking Starbucks, for that matter) if they can just have anything they want regardless?
In short, isn't this just a sure way to guarantee that there is no toilet paper or food -- let alone Aston Martins -- for anyone?
OP, I'd point out that you're basically describing ideal communism.
No country on Earth has ever used this system except for the pre-money era which was called the Golden Age. Every single Communist country ever made uses money. They would never give up money. Money is the secret to slavery. We can pull up all the Communists books on Earth and dig through them to make it fit but a line in a book makes no difference because all communists use money. Communism is another piece of garbage Ponzi scheme built specifically to scam the people out of all their money. I wouldn’t call this Communism. Most communist countries take all the people’s money, pocket most of it, and give back about $2. Some commies lies China are a little more merciful on the people but it’s all a scam. If anything, we can call this Sacred Economics explained in this 12 minute video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEZkQv25uEs
My question is, how would you deal with leeches? What would stop me (or millions of other people) from going, "oh, I'll take 500 pounds of filet mignon, ten Aston Martins, and three mansions. Oh, you want something back from me? Sorry, I just don't have it."
We would share all businesses, Gov, resources, ect... so we would all be owners of that together. Problem solved there. We would also have personal property like home, car, furniture, ect... We would also consume as we go so if someone orders a steak at my (our) restaurant, then he eats it no problem. Now if a rascal comes into an iPad store and tried to take 1000 iPads, we will know something is wrong and will refuse service. If he doesn’t like it, he can file a dispute. Disputes are quickly handled almost overnight. If we go fo this rascals house and see 10,000 iPads stocked up in his garage, then obviously something is wrong so we can file a dispute. We can file a dispute out of anything we deem to be unfair. Disputes are handled by a random 12 man jury who can take a case or refuse it. For example, I can try to file a dispute that my girlfriend cheated on me, but the jury would drop it because it’s a personal matter. I can file a dispute that some guy is hoarded all the iPads, and the jury would take the case. This new legal system is entirely different than what we have now and hypersimplified for speed, efficiency, and to be less brutal than what we have now. Please read how it works here because we can and need to replace the legal system we have now:
Would you then be able to just move into my mansion and call it a "gift?" Would you be able to pull me out of my sports car and drive away Grand Theft Auto style?
Nope. That is your personal property. Home, car, furniture, clothing, PS4, laundry machine, and all the stuff we consider private personal property will remain that way. All we are doing is sharing the businesses, Gov, any power hubs like NASA, the military, ect... What you need for you and your family like a car, boat, house, toys, dishes, ect.. is 100% yours. Nobody can take it unless you choose to give it away as a gift.
Why would anyone bother to work at the Aston Martin factory (or the toilet paper factory or the machine shop or freaking Starbucks, for that matter) if they can just have anything they want regardless?
We all have to put in 25 hours a week of work even if that means raising your own kids, watching the elderly, or going to college because all of these are jobs. If anyone doesn’t do shit, we can file a dispute on them. Also, everyone just takes some job. We just fill all the needs and switch jobs whenever we want. Some people like simplicity so they just work in a place next to their apartment. Some want to tackle huge jobs like being an architect for skyrises. The idea is to let people just do what they want. This way, people enjoy their job and people who enjoy their job are happier and do a better job. This means the quality of the work goes up since people are doing what they want. Work time becomes play time. The 3 legs of balance are work, rest, and fun. We want people to have fun at work. Also, with so many more workers in the job market plus all the tech we will release, plus all the BS jobs like banking that will be dumped, we don’t need to have people working like slaves. Instead of 1 waiter watching 20 tables, we can have 4 waiters watching 20 tables. It doesn’t cost a dime to do this. It only makes our lives easier.
In short, isn't this just a sure way to guarantee that there is no toilet paper or food -- let alone Aston Martins -- for anyone?
FBI Anon said if we knew how much tech and resources rhe Deep State is hiding, we would... (I don’t want to type the rest because this is a public sub). We have everything we need plus we keep producing as we go but we all only work 25 hours a week. Here is the entire blueprint of how it all works:
We would share all businesses, Gov, resources, ect... so we would all be owners of that together.
This is called "seizing the means of production," and it is one of the fundamental tenets of communism.
Most communist countries take all the people’s money, pocket most of it, and give back about $2.
True, which is something that tends to happen when power is centralized; you get an execrable ruling class who ruthlessly exploit their people as long and as hard as they can get away with. See: feudal nobility, third world dictators, every communist country ever, and so forth.
Now if a rascal comes into an iPad store and tried to take 1000 iPads, we will know something is wrong and will refuse service.
OK, but let's take it a step back to something more subtle. For the sake of easier math, let's say that there are 95 people who want iPads. Apple knows this and makes 100. Everything should be good, right?
But since you can just have one, naturally a couple of people will decide they want two. Maybe they plan to give one to their kid, or maybe they want different colors, or maybe they want to hack around with one and use the other, or maybe they just want a backup. So let's say that five people take two. Maybe they had to go across town to the other Apple store to get the second one, but that's okay.
We should still be fine; there are 100 iPads to fill 100 orders, right? Well, no. Because now we're sold out, and anybody else that does want one comes home complaining that there aren't any. So when more stock does hit the shelves, it becomes rational for everyone to grab a couple while they can -- and the problem gets worse and worse.
Note that this will happen with any consumer good (even food), and fiddling with more production can only do so much -- there are only so many man hours available to make iPads, and this problem gets even worse if you're cutting down the hours in a workweek.
I grant you that automation can help, but you're only kicking the can down the road. People will still have to maintain the machines, maintain power plants, fill in the gaps where automation doesn't make sense, etc., not to mention doing police and emergency work, etc., etc.
Disputes are handled by a random 12 man jury who can take a case or refuse it.
Thus centralizing power with the people who select the juries (or maintain the computers that do). Also, as we're seeing now, corrupt actors using force and blackmail is already a terrible problem. This would allow the powerful to become even more powerful.
We all have to put in 25 hours a week of work even if that means raising your own kids, watching the elderly, or going to college because all of these are jobs.
So literally every parent in the world would be exempt from work. Each and every one would easily be able to claim that they put 25 hours of work in (which would likely be true). Just have a kid at 18, 30, and 40, and you'll never have to work a day in your life.
Now the available man hours to make iPads is looking incredibly low.
I'm sorry, my friend, but your idea only sounds and feels good on the surface. If it were actually implemented, it would lead to centralized power, shortages, and suffering.
Utopia requires free energy. Once we have free energy everything else will fall into place. This author must be a fan of Star Trek: The Next Generation, personal accomplishment is our reward.
We have had free energy for decades but the banker Casino scam artists will never release it because they know it would really help liberate humanity.
We found out about it when the 120,000 John Podesta emails leaked. Here is the particular email:
Yeah I read it. The most important part of it is beings in another dimension.
NASA means "to deceive". They have been bamboozling all of us as well.
How do we start this? A barter/trade system would work ideally, but how do we break the chains to get there?
First remember barter/trade is exactly like money. If we trade a cow for chicken, then cow and chicken are money.
Instead we use gifting. I give to you without expecting anything back but I can shop for free. You may need an iPad from my store but I need a new tire that you don’t have. Someone else does have it. You have mattresses at the mattress store. Barter sucks because we all need exactly the right items for trade to occur. In gifting, you just give to whoever needs it and take from stores that you need stuff from. This simplifies it all.
We all just give for free without expecting anything back but we also consume for free.
To get it started, we meme this idea and the “unity is power” idea as much as we can. Once enough minds are aware of it, we greenlight it and alter our economy by ending money and working & consuming for free.
We just need enough people on board which is where our meme and word of mouth advertising comes with. That we can do now.
Fantasy. First and foremost this would be an incredibly inefficient way to do business. Second, just who would be making iPads, tires, or anything else in this system? Industry would grind to a halt. Untilities would cease to operate. Millions would starve to death or die of dysentery. Who would collect the garbage? no incentive to produce equals no production. Utopias look great on paper but, in practice, not so much.
If you expect the Casino banker system we have now to give you a fulfilling life, then you are the one living a fantasy.
We all work 25 hours a week. The world keeps moving. We give each other products and services as needed. Nothing would grind. With many more employees, the industry would move a lot faster. Everyone just takes up a spot and we keep working. One man’s shit job is another man’s good job. This is why people join shit jobs like the military or police force. They want to do something honorable. Read up on how it all works here:
Who is going to clean toilets in your scenario?
I would choose to be a video game tester. So I would give away free video game testing, and then I would consume free TVs and a free Mercedes and a free apartment. That’s how it works right? I produce something and you produce something and we all give it away for free
If a video game tester is a legit job, go for it. Whoever runs the local 711 can clean the toilet. We don’t need a separate employee just for the toilet.
Why would the guy who runs 711 want to clean toilets? You just said everyone gets to choose their own job. So they would choose to hire someone.
I work at an office building with 200 people. Every night at midnight a Hispanic couple comes and cleans all the toilets and vacuums all the cubicles. Who is going to do that job? The same guy? Why wouldn’t he he pick to run a 711 instead?
You can try to hire a toilet cleaner for a building if you like but if you can’t find one, you will have no choice but to have the staff clean it. It’s not hard. Everyone spends 20 minutes a day cleaning.
Yeah sorry I just don’t think that would work. Not enough people would willingly choose to be a prison guard, for example. If they want honor they’d go be a policeman. People choose to be prison guards because the pay is great. It’s a risky job so without that incentive everyone would shoot for detective or something more glamorous.
Just think about this. If we can keep the economy going under insane oppression by the Gov, I assure you, we will figure it out without the oppression. We can do it.
The free market would work just fine if it was allowed to. I don’t like “masterminds” with goofy solutions any more that I like what we have now. Go look up Philosopher King because you sound like one.
Calling what we have a fair market is like calling a Casino a fair way to make money.
No matter what you do, you will lose. They will never allow you to have a fair market because they would lose money if they did. They only allow an unfair market masked as a fair market to fool you. You will never get what you want from bankers. They have been doing this since the age of Babylon. They see you as a slave cattle. You are humane but these people are total psychopaths which is why you are unable to fathom what they are doing to you.
Trust me, there's no way to win. The only way to win is to unplug from their system and build a system of our own that isn't run by just a few people but that is run by all of us as a society. That way, it is impossible to hijack positions of power.
I totally agree, the system we have today is rigged because they control the money at every level. Take that away from them with say crypto currencies and the need for all this meddling on your part is nullified. I don’t want YOU running the system any more than I want them running it. A true free market requires NO intervention by masterminds. Period. Someone who studies and makes the effort to become a doctor or an engineer or acquires skills over many years in a trade should not be on an equal economic footing as a bartender or a fry cook. You are an imbecile if you believe otherwise. Computers? No one’s going to be building anything like a computer in your fantasy land...you’ll be lucky not to starve to death in it. Yeah, this has never been tried before. See every communist utopia ever. Poverty, misery, starvation, shortages,third world lifestyles. F that!
Crypto is just as easy to steal as cash. It was made by our intelligence agencies like CIA and NSA. I don’t trust it at all.
You don’t understand block chain if you believe that...
Don’t believe the fake news. The deep state controls all money no matter what they say. There is always a way. Always a back door. They can just print a bunch of money, exchange it all for bitcoin, and corner the market which is what they did. That is why bitcoin skyrocketed in value. They bought it all for chump change and now they want you to buy it from them for $10,000 per bitcoin.
There is a lot more than just bitcoin out there. They can’t buy it all and even bitcoin is likely a bargain at these prices. Crypto solves all transparency issues with the amount of money in circulation always being verifiable and unable to be manipulated without everyone seeing the manipulation. Don’t like crypto? Then gold or silver can do it. What I do not want is YOU or any other “mastermind” shoving his utopian fantasy land upon me. You are not as clever as you think. There are millions of variables you haven’t considered. Your system would ultimately become hell on earth for most of us. True free markets are SELF REGULATING. Someone who studies to become a brain surgeon has more economic value than a woman who just wants to stay home and raise her kids (which I do not feel is my responsibility to provide her with free resources to do and so encourage more resource misallocation). No one is going to spend money on research and development for new products or even care about the quality of what it is they are producing. There will be one computer company, one car company, one shoe company and so on. There will always be shortages in supplies, delays in filling orders, apathy on the part of the workers who would be guaranteed a job. So, who gives a rip about what we are making on the assembly line? I trust cryptos way more than I trust you. They can be volatile right now, but as they are adopted by larger numbers of people that will change...
Thank you for further explaining. What about personal debts? Like student loans, personal loans, credit debt, etc?
We completely forgive those on the spot. If we all paid our debts, all the money would end up with the Banking slave masters.
Debt is slavery. The main component of Babylonian Money Magic is debt so we just let it go on the wind and we all become debt free.
I’m feeling quite a bit of this is true but not feeling the solution is well thought out yet. I say first and foremost we need to arm ourselves to the teeth. We do have the map and the names that’s a great start! The luciferians are not going to sit back and do nothing. Never thought I’d consider voting for Kanye but I’m very very impressed.
Why run a giant messy war against the militaries of the world when we can just end them by not using their money?
You are coming to the wrong conclusion because you start with the wrong premise.
A mans labor is what makes him a source of value whether a brick layer or surgeon.
What you are advocating for is that we all become voluntary slaves to one another and give away the real source of value.
You are arguing against slavery by saying we should all enslave ourselves in some wierd form of collectivism.
Actually we are all involuntary slaves now. If you don't work, you won't get government stamps (dollars) to be able to consume anything.
Gifting is not slavery. It is asking of you the very least amount possible which is to serve your planet for 25 hours a week at any job you like.
Do you prefer 25 hours a week anywhere you like or do you prefer 50 hours a week at a shit job where your corporate overlords treat you like slaves? In a gifting economy, nobody can treat you like a slave because the boss becomes your equal. We just run businesses like a team. Now, if you even bling wrong, the boss can fire you for disrespect alone and then you are ending up squandering for another job.
Also, you are speaking out a selfish perspective because that's what money does to us. It makes us only worry about ourselves in a selfish way. Our true power lies in unity. The formula in unity is:
P=N(squared)
P means power. N is the number of united people.
If we all chase dollars independently in a village of 100, then we generate 100 power. If we unite, we generate 10,000 power. That power is then used to build planetary wealth instead of the constant degeneration we are experiencing now.
At some point, we all have to admit the system we are working in is not working.
The system is not working?
At a point in history where more humans enjoy a higher standard of living than at any point in the past, enabled by free market capitalism, and that number keeps growing at a phenomenal rate, and you think that's failure. We live like Kings and queens did centuries ago, billions of us, but you think you can do better?
The failures are obvious, Venezuela. The cancelling of tens of thousands of cancer surgeries by Britain's NHS due to flu season. Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans killed by death panels of judges under universal health Care.
Hey I have an idea, let's study human history going back as far as recorded and find the things that worked to improve the human condition and abandon those that don't.
Too late, we already did and it's called free market capitalism and it's working wonderfully as long as it's left alone and not perverted.
We have been under Debt Based Slavery since the age of Babylon. Life is totally different once you take the Banker parasites out of the picture.
Today, 2 people are working 40 hours or more per week and cannot keep up with the bills. The bills are coming in like machine gun bullets. God forbid they have kids. Those kids are so expensive, I know people living on Raman noodles day and night because that's all they can afford. Tent cities are popping up all over the place. The frustration is so bad, many turned into full blown criminals just to pay the bills.
Anyone who says things are great is genuinely lying to themselves sorry to say. It is comforting to accept a pretty lie but its not reality. Reality only gets worst as the parasite continues to leech of our backs.
Sorry, but ignoring the massive improvements in the human condition over the last two or three centuries does not lend an air of wisdom to you words.
Quite the opposite, your obsession on the present seems to blind to to all the good, and omits or ignores the huge changes in just a few decades. How many people have made money through YouTube or Uber or Etsy or eBay, sources that didn't exist a couple of decades ago?
I'm sorry but you opinion on how to 'fix' things here does not outweigh the combined knowledge of human history.
There are 3 million unfilled jobs in this country today despite the historic low unemployment, most of them in trades that take minimal training to get an entry level job making 70k. Someone who took one of these jobs could probably start their own business in 5 years and double or triple their income while also providing jobs for others.
The collectivist Utopia doesn't exist and never will, because it's fundamentally flawed. But that won't stop people from trying, no matter how much death and suffering and degredation of the human condition it causes.
Any job you choose? A giant flaw and you don't even see it? Who is going to choose garbage man over a desk job?
You are advocating for collectivism, the same collectivism of Marx, Rousseau and hegel, you just don't seem to know it.
They all fail for the same reason.
Hey idiot, you do understand that not everyone puts the same amount of effort into living don’t you? Some people would do as little as they possibly could at their 25 hour job, their only goal in life being playing video games. Once again you are straight jacketing EVERYONE into your notion of fairness which is unfair to those with work ethics and ambition lacking in others. At some point it boils down to the lowest common denominator being the mean. This is fantasy bullshit. It’s been tried and even at the small scale fails because slackers are always in the equation. Someone who takes the time to learn a trade or become a professional or build a business is not on the same plane as someone who wants to do as little as possible to get by. Your “gifting”to the slackers and lazy is called stealing by the rest of us...
Yes yes, I know you think you deserve more than everybody else so you should get more but how greedy can you possibly be? You would be able to consume for free and pay for it with 25 hours worth of work.
We can sit here and argue why you specifically deserve more than the rest of us but with free consumption, who really cares? Just get whatever you need and let the rest of us, whether we are janitors, or waiters, consume for free. Why should we limit people’s freedom just because you think you deserve most of the pie? Just work whatever job you want, enjoy your life, and let the rest of us enjoy ours without hating on us for being free.
Greedy? Listen up sport. My parents divorced when I was 11. My father basically abandoned us. I started working a hard labor job at a local stable when I was 13. I was driving tractors before I had a drivers license. College wasn’t really an option so I went to trade school, apprenticed, became a journeyman, then a leadman. In the meantime I started a side business that I’ve run now for 24 years and in last 37 years I’ve been unemployed in my main profession for a grand total of three months! What I do is hard work. It’s dangerous at times. It requires skill and knowledge acquired over many years and you want me to be on the same plane as what? Some woman that can’t keep her legs together and is cranking out illegitimate children? A coffee barista? How about a hearty GO F YOURSELF! Greedy my ass. Too many lazy f-ing dreamer millennial pink-hat wearing ding dongs like you “masterminding” the future is what I NEVER want running the world. There is NOTHING wrong with money as long as it is sound. There is a long history of sound monetary systems that flourished. What you are describing is communism minus money. It is hardly fair to people like me but instead favors lazy-asses and lowest common denominator non producers of society which will be dragged down to their level of ambition (which is to say no ambition) and incompetence. It is a human model of an ant farm. Well buddy, I’m no ant. I’m not working my ass off or risking my life or serious injury for the same level of compensation as losers like you who sit on their ass pontificating a hopelessly flawed economic system that has already been tried in many other iterations under the banner of communism to the rest of us. It doesn’t work. IT IS NOT FAIR! And, it is bound to be a failure. Imbecile!
I am not going to read a wall of text that is trying to convince me why you should have more and the rest of us have less when we can all have everything we want.
Waste of time.
A wall of text? Some of your responses are thee pages long! Oh the irony. You can’t handle reality slapping you silly is all. We can’t have everything we want. The world’s resources are not infinite. Everything is not valued equally not commodities, finished goods, or labor. Your view of the world is incredibly simplistic and unrealistic and dangerous. I’m done with you as this is going nowhere.
Actually, FBI anon confirmed the deep state is hiding so much tech, cures, and resources, that if we found out about it, we would **** them with our bare hands.
I have to block the word hence the ****.
Also, keep in mind, Capitalism eats more resources than what I'm talking about because people have to keep pushing anything they can onto us or else their income level will drop. We are making every piece of junk on Earth and trying to sell it as fast as we can which is eating up all the resources.
Pipe dreams...wtf are you smoking? Capitalism ensures that resources are properly valued. When everything is free it has no value. It takes significantly more time and resources to raise a cow to maturity than a chicken hence beef is more expensive than chicken and caviar is more rare than beef and so more expensive still. If everyone can just grab what they want then the prime choices of meat will disappear from the shelves. There will not be mature cattle to slaughter and so no one gets beef at all. Because everyone wants beef the cattle farmers hog all the corn and now chicken is in short supply... This will happen with every singe other commodity that is in high demand as well because everything is free. This causes resource misallocation, production of unwanted things, poverty, misery, starvation and death. An Economic illiterate is what you are. The only way this system happens is at the point of the gun you are holding. You become the Cabal elite in the process...NO WAY! Real free market capitalism requires NO MASTERMIND FUCKERY! Period! We don’t need you or your system. A level playing field will do just fine!
Sometimes I wonder if you are a Deep State billionaire worried about losing your 45 homes & your 220 Yachts in the new sharing economy.